Deuce

saintsfan1976 · 09-18-2007, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by FrenzyFan

Why, yes, I am certain we all know how to read and have been doing so for most of our lives. Thank you for asking.

I disagree with your opinion, however. The defense has not underperformed to the same level as the offense has underperformed. The comparison between the two ARE NOT EVEN IN THE SAME GALAXY. Everyone knows our defense is not good, it's a scheme defense that depends upon the offense's play. Fix the offense, our REAL problem and not a convenient goat to blame it on, and the defense will be fine.

I respectfully disagree..... Have you watched the way J David lines up? His technique is bad, his coverage is bad... There is very little pressure coming from W Smith and C Grant on the ends, almost no safety help (again).

IMHO, the offense is off due to the O Line....The D is off because of 11 players.....Hey let's just say that they are both equally sucky

Euphoria · 09-18-2007, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

I respectfully disagree..... Have you watched the way J David lines up? His technique is bad, his coverage is bad... There is very little pressure coming from W Smith and C Grant on the ends, almost no safety help (again).

IMHO, the offense is off due to the O Line....The D is off because of 11 players.....Hey let's just say that they are both equally sucky

I don't think anyone is arguing the point that both units sucked so far but one sets up the other. The D is far more horrific. If you can slow down a team then the Saints can play the numbers and run more but when they fall behind so much they can't keep running the ball. They are forced to open it up and they take away our deep stuff which makes it more difficult for us.

ScottyRo · 09-18-2007, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

Do you guys know how to read... the problem is the Defense. You can't run deuce when you are down 17-21 points going into the 4th quarter.

The point isn't what should we be doing when we're down by 21 in the fourth it is why are we getting down so quickly. The answer is two-fold:

1. This defense may be worse than last year in every phase save the D-Line. I think the LB's are OK except for that big whole in the middle named Simoneau. I'm sorry, but he is out of position too often and when he's there to make a tackle he gets dragged 3 or 4 yards unless he has help. The DB's have not jelled. You can forget the Indy game cuz Peyton can torch even the best DB's. They were a little better against TB, but not much. Forget turnovers. I'd just like to see a few passes defensed each game right now.

Even still they are getting no help from the offense...

2. They seem to be running the ball OK. Passing has been horrible. Drew seems a bit off, but I think that is attributable more to the O-line looking more like I thought they'd look last year than a unit that has played together for a year already.

Nevertheless, I think the biggest problem has been our formations. Last year, 70 to 80% of the plays involved Reggie or someone else in motion behind the line of scrimmage many times as a decoy to Deuce's runs, but also to work on match ups. They don't seem to do that much this year and I think that is making them easier to stop. The opposing defense seems to have a better idea of where the ball is going and has plenty of people there.

My suggestion is to scrap this year's playbook and return to what was working last year. There has been a philosophy change that is killing us on offense.

Papa Voodoo · 09-18-2007, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by ScottyRo

The point isn't what should we be doing when we're down by 21 in the fourth it is why are we getting down so quickly. The answer is two-fold:

1. This defense may be worse than last year in every phase save the D-Line. I think the LB's are OK except for that big whole in the middle named Simoneau. I'm sorry, but he is out of position too often and when he's there to make a tackle he gets dragged 3 or 4 yards unless he has help. The DB's have not jelled. You can forget the Indy game cuz Peyton can torch even the best DB's. They were a little better against TB, but not much. Forget turnovers. I'd just like to see a few passes defensed each game right now.

Even still they are getting no help from the offense...

2. They seem to be running the ball OK. Passing has been horrible. Drew seems a bit off, but I think that is attributable more to the O-line looking more like I thought they'd look last year than a unit that has played together for a year already.

Nevertheless, I think the biggest problem has been our formations. Last year, 70 to 80% of the plays involved Reggie or someone else in motion behind the line of scrimmage many times as a decoy to Deuce's runs, but also to work on match ups. They don't seem to do that much this year and I think that is making them easier to stop. The opposing defense seems to have a better idea of where the ball is going and has plenty of people there.

My suggestion is to scrap this year's playbook and return to what was working last year. There has been a philosophy change that is killing us on offense.

On NFL Primetime last night our woes were discussed throughout the evening by the likes of Bill Parcels, Mike Ditka, K. Johnson, and M. Schlereth.

Ditka said Reggie needs to quit dancing and go to which Schlereth said he needs to stop trying to bust every run outside for a TD and take 2 yard agins in the middle.

Ditka also said You can't tell the O-Line to pass block 45-50 times a game. Schlereth agreed that he could never do that and he ain't no joke. They also mentioned it hurts the O-Line becuase they can't get nasty and run block. They went further to say that when things aren't going right you run the ball and knock the other team in the mouth.

Ditka, Schlereth, Hodge, and Johnson all agreed that we have to run Deuce a lot more. Quit being so cerebral and hit somebody. Hodge said that the Defense will play better if the O gets it going with Deuce.

Parcells said Deuce is important, but that our secondary is crap and there's no depth.

So, The Pro-Deuce fans are right and the Pro-Our Secondary Wears Miniskirts fans are right. We're not going to get Champ Bailey any time soon so I say sub KK for Bullocks. Sub Simmons for Simoneau, and sub Usama for David. Then Run Deuce like a Mack Truck!

WhoDat205 · 09-18-2007, 12:48 PM

On the secondary and LBs: we all know they're week...like worst in the NFL week. I really think the team needs to refuse to give up the deep balls. Play two deep zones and the like and force teams to beat you with the run. Trying to Man up on the outside and send LBs to blitz doesn't work because the LBs and the CBs are...uhh...not good at football (except Fuji, who couldn't cover me up the seam and MM who is eligable for Medicare next month).

Now that means that the DL has to step up and stop the run at the point of attack, B/C the LBs are not getting it done. Thankfully, I believe the talent is there on the line...even at DT.

ScottyRo · 09-18-2007, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Papa Voodoo

Ditka also said You can't tell the O-Line to pass block 45-50 times a game. Schlereth agreed that he could never do that and he ain't no joke. They also mentioned it hurts the O-Line becuase they can't get nasty and run block. They went further to say that when things aren't going right you run the ball and knock the other team in the mouth.

I agree with lots of what you posted , but to this I have an exception. Sure, 40 or 50 pass blocks a game may be too much, but what does that have to do with their lack of pass blocking ability in the first quarter or first half? It's not like they look worse as the game goes on. They look bad from play one.

I'll be very interested in seeing how the cowboys do down the stretch this year. They went through what everyone was calling "Camp Cupcake", but seem to be on fire so far. Our guys have looked slow and worn out so far. Maybe the days of killing our guys in the intense heat of summer during training camp should be put to bed forever. It seems t me that practicing during training camp indoors shouldn't hurt us any since in more than half the games each year we play inside anyway.

SapperSaint · 09-18-2007, 04:01 PM

Here is what I think Euph is trying to say....

On offense you take the lead by air, you keep it by running.

Our defense has not been able to stop the opposing team by air or ground.

If you are down by two or more TD's.....running the ball only runs the clock out.

Our offense and defense need to step up....equally.

Dan the Man · 09-18-2007, 05:44 PM

Euphoria, last year our defense was just as bad. What made the difference is that our offense executed and kept our defense off the field. You can't blame everything on the defense. Yes, the D is pretty bad, and they are partially to blame. But they are not the entire problem, so please stop saying that they are.

Euphoria · 09-18-2007, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Dan the Man

Euphoria, last year our defense was just as bad. What made the difference is that our offense executed and kept our defense off the field. You can't blame everything on the defense. Yes, the D is pretty bad, and they are partially to blame. But they are not the entire problem, so please stop saying that they are.

No they were not this bad last year. They are worse! THe only big problem they had was giving up a big play once in awhile. This year they can do just about anything to us this year. Tampa scoring on us that much... come on.

hagan714 · 09-18-2007, 06:36 PM

I swear we said all this last year. Next year we bit the bullet and get some young blood in the draft and let them play. We need to let Young play more. I am so glad we cut Jones. He would have hurt the secondary if we kept him. There was no room for him.

09-18-2007, 01:55 PM	#1
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 11,102 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Deuce Originally Posted by FrenzyFan Why, yes, I am certain we all know how to read and have been doing so for most of our lives. Thank you for asking. I disagree with your opinion, however. The defense has not underperformed to the same level as the offense has underperformed. The comparison between the two ARE NOT EVEN IN THE SAME GALAXY. Everyone knows our defense is not good, it's a scheme defense that depends upon the offense's play. Fix the offense, our REAL problem and not a convenient goat to blame it on, and the defense will be fine. I respectfully disagree..... Have you watched the way J David lines up? His technique is bad, his coverage is bad... There is very little pressure coming from W Smith and C Grant on the ends, almost no safety help (again). IMHO, the offense is off due to the O Line....The D is off because of 11 players.....Hey let's just say that they are both equally sucky

09-18-2007, 02:18 PM	#2
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Deuce Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 I respectfully disagree..... Have you watched the way J David lines up? His technique is bad, his coverage is bad... There is very little pressure coming from W Smith and C Grant on the ends, almost no safety help (again). IMHO, the offense is off due to the O Line....The D is off because of 11 players.....Hey let's just say that they are both equally sucky I don't think anyone is arguing the point that both units sucked so far but one sets up the other. The D is far more horrific. If you can slow down a team then the Saints can play the numbers and run more but when they fall behind so much they can't keep running the ball. They are forced to open it up and they take away our deep stuff which makes it more difficult for us.

09-18-2007, 12:20 PM	#3
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Re: Deuce Originally Posted by Euphoria Do you guys know how to read... the problem is the Defense. You can't run deuce when you are down 17-21 points going into the 4th quarter. The point isn't what should we be doing when we're down by 21 in the fourth it is why are we getting down so quickly. The answer is two-fold: 1. This defense may be worse than last year in every phase save the D-Line. I think the LB's are OK except for that big whole in the middle named Simoneau. I'm sorry, but he is out of position too often and when he's there to make a tackle he gets dragged 3 or 4 yards unless he has help. The DB's have not jelled. You can forget the Indy game cuz Peyton can torch even the best DB's. They were a little better against TB, but not much. Forget turnovers. I'd just like to see a few passes defensed each game right now. Even still they are getting no help from the offense... 2. They seem to be running the ball OK. Passing has been horrible. Drew seems a bit off, but I think that is attributable more to the O-line looking more like I thought they'd look last year than a unit that has played together for a year already. Nevertheless, I think the biggest problem has been our formations. Last year, 70 to 80% of the plays involved Reggie or someone else in motion behind the line of scrimmage many times as a decoy to Deuce's runs, but also to work on match ups. They don't seem to do that much this year and I think that is making them easier to stop. The opposing defense seems to have a better idea of where the ball is going and has plenty of people there. My suggestion is to scrap this year's playbook and return to what was working last year. There has been a philosophy change that is killing us on offense.

09-18-2007, 12:36 PM	#4
Papa Voodoo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,634	Re: Deuce Originally Posted by ScottyRo The point isn't what should we be doing when we're down by 21 in the fourth it is why are we getting down so quickly. The answer is two-fold: 1. This defense may be worse than last year in every phase save the D-Line. I think the LB's are OK except for that big whole in the middle named Simoneau. I'm sorry, but he is out of position too often and when he's there to make a tackle he gets dragged 3 or 4 yards unless he has help. The DB's have not jelled. You can forget the Indy game cuz Peyton can torch even the best DB's. They were a little better against TB, but not much. Forget turnovers. I'd just like to see a few passes defensed each game right now. Even still they are getting no help from the offense... 2. They seem to be running the ball OK. Passing has been horrible. Drew seems a bit off, but I think that is attributable more to the O-line looking more like I thought they'd look last year than a unit that has played together for a year already. Nevertheless, I think the biggest problem has been our formations. Last year, 70 to 80% of the plays involved Reggie or someone else in motion behind the line of scrimmage many times as a decoy to Deuce's runs, but also to work on match ups. They don't seem to do that much this year and I think that is making them easier to stop. The opposing defense seems to have a better idea of where the ball is going and has plenty of people there. My suggestion is to scrap this year's playbook and return to what was working last year. There has been a philosophy change that is killing us on offense. On NFL Primetime last night our woes were discussed throughout the evening by the likes of Bill Parcels, Mike Ditka, K. Johnson, and M. Schlereth. Ditka said Reggie needs to quit dancing and go to which Schlereth said he needs to stop trying to bust every run outside for a TD and take 2 yard agins in the middle. Ditka also said You can't tell the O-Line to pass block 45-50 times a game. Schlereth agreed that he could never do that and he ain't no joke. They also mentioned it hurts the O-Line becuase they can't get nasty and run block. They went further to say that when things aren't going right you run the ball and knock the other team in the mouth. Ditka, Schlereth, Hodge, and Johnson all agreed that we have to run Deuce a lot more. Quit being so cerebral and hit somebody. Hodge said that the Defense will play better if the O gets it going with Deuce. Parcells said Deuce is important, but that our secondary is crap and there's no depth. So, The Pro-Deuce fans are right and the Pro-Our Secondary Wears Miniskirts fans are right. We're not going to get Champ Bailey any time soon so I say sub KK for Bullocks. Sub Simmons for Simoneau, and sub Usama for David. Then Run Deuce like a Mack Truck!

09-18-2007, 12:48 PM	#5
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Deuce On the secondary and LBs: we all know they're week...like worst in the NFL week. I really think the team needs to refuse to give up the deep balls. Play two deep zones and the like and force teams to beat you with the run. Trying to Man up on the outside and send LBs to blitz doesn't work because the LBs and the CBs are...uhh...not good at football (except Fuji, who couldn't cover me up the seam and MM who is eligable for Medicare next month). Now that means that the DL has to step up and stop the run at the point of attack, B/C the LBs are not getting it done. Thankfully, I believe the talent is there on the line...even at DT.
	"defence's personal to allwats double team or watch is over, that one reason why the saints or not any good." - Vador101

09-18-2007, 12:49 PM	#6
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Re: Deuce Originally Posted by Papa Voodoo Ditka also said You can't tell the O-Line to pass block 45-50 times a game. Schlereth agreed that he could never do that and he ain't no joke. They also mentioned it hurts the O-Line becuase they can't get nasty and run block. They went further to say that when things aren't going right you run the ball and knock the other team in the mouth. I agree with lots of what you posted , but to this I have an exception. Sure, 40 or 50 pass blocks a game may be too much, but what does that have to do with their lack of pass blocking ability in the first quarter or first half? It's not like they look worse as the game goes on. They look bad from play one. I'll be very interested in seeing how the cowboys do down the stretch this year. They went through what everyone was calling "Camp Cupcake", but seem to be on fire so far. Our guys have looked slow and worn out so far. Maybe the days of killing our guys in the intense heat of summer during training camp should be put to bed forever. It seems t me that practicing during training camp indoors shouldn't hurt us any since in more than half the games each year we play inside anyway.

09-18-2007, 04:01 PM	#7
SapperSaint Pink Nightmare Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 3,028 Blog Entries: 7	Re: Deuce Here is what I think Euph is trying to say.... On offense you take the lead by air, you keep it by running. Our defense has not been able to stop the opposing team by air or ground. If you are down by two or more TD's.....running the ball only runs the clock out. Our offense and defense need to step up....equally.

09-18-2007, 05:44 PM	#8
Dan the Man Registered Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: New Orleans Posts: 87	Re: Deuce Euphoria, last year our defense was just as bad. What made the difference is that our offense executed and kept our defense off the field. You can't blame everything on the defense. Yes, the D is pretty bad, and they are partially to blame. But they are not the entire problem, so please stop saying that they are.

09-18-2007, 06:44 PM	#9
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Deuce Originally Posted by Dan the Man Euphoria, last year our defense was just as bad. What made the difference is that our offense executed and kept our defense off the field. You can't blame everything on the defense. Yes, the D is pretty bad, and they are partially to blame. But they are not the entire problem, so please stop saying that they are. No they were not this bad last year. They are worse! THe only big problem they had was giving up a big play once in awhile. This year they can do just about anything to us this year. Tampa scoring on us that much... come on.

09-18-2007, 06:36 PM	#10
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Deuce I swear we said all this last year. Next year we bit the bullet and get some young blood in the draft and let them play. We need to let Young play more. I am so glad we cut Jones. He would have hurt the secondary if we kept him. There was no room for him.