Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball

WhoDatQB · 10-29-2007, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

WhoDat you got good points but our running game is injured. Deuce can make the line look good without him we aren't that great up to middle. To be a good running team you have to have 2 things
1. O-LINE
2. Good/Great Defense
You are correct to be a good running team you have to committ to it and do it and do it.

You have to give payton credit getting by with what he has and what has been available to him.
-We just don't have the personel to pound the ball as everyone has been asking for, nor the RB to do it right now.
-Our D is suspect and to make up for that you have to score points.
-When your record is less than 500 you have be agressive.

======
Deuce is injured but our running game has been grounded.

I will agree our line is not a great run blocking Line.

I can't give Payton too much credit when he is doing the same damn things he was last year, I just hope he doesn't continue to do it to our detriment.

We do not know if we have the RB to pound the ball yet. For goodness sakes look at M JOnes-Drew, if he can pound it so can PT.

I agree with our record what it is you have to be aggressive, but if we plan on doing anything other making a good showing in the regular season then we need to work on the run game. What game better to work on the run game than towards the end of this past game? The Saints have not had a better opportunity to work on the run game than they had last week.

We have a good left side of the line, maybe not directly up the middle, but run between the LG and LT. Or at least try it

SaintFanInATLHELL · 10-30-2007, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by WhoDatQB

=====

But towards the end of the game when we are up and their D is getting nasty and if our O line breaks down and we continually have short drives without taking much time off the clock and we will get screwed. Especially when it turns cold and Payton wants to try and get up on the teams quickly and Brees has a ball or two go off line in the wind or just the plain fact of throwing in the cold. We need a running game, while I like high flying point scoring offenses as much or more than the next guy, you need to be able to run or have a dominant O line that will keep people off of Brees all day long no matter what and receivers that do not get the dropsies.

While I agree with getting up on teams early to help out our D, oh god believe me do I agree with it, when it turns 30 degrees and windy on us what are we gonna do? All of a sudden say, hey PT, Stecker, and Bush let's go out and run the ball? PT needs more carries and more time in the offense to get the blitz pickup down.

Unless you figure us to go undefeated the rest of the season and secure homefield throughout the playoffs?

Yeah! What he said!

SFIAH

darstep · 10-30-2007, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

I guess I'm going to become the Euph of this subject.
So why not run the ball to set up the pass? Bush had a 6.4 YPC average yesterday. But he only carried the ball 10 times.
There are exposive plays in the run game. But you have to run the ball consistently to get to them.
SFIAH

Well you won't have to be Euph by yourself on this one. This was the problem when Duece was healthy - 9-10 carries a game when averaging 4.3. If we commit to running the ball, protecting Drew Brees in the pocket is easy. We actually showed signs of getting to the run and seems that we've backed off. If we can get a push early in the game, we will get some breakouts, and then we are pass blocking defenders that are on the heels and not on their toes. Hasn't meant much with our recent opponents, but our pass-pass-pass day of reconning is coming. Against good defenses, that have a decent pass rush, we have GOT to run the ball. The key to running Bush, Stecker, and Thomas, given their size and weight, is to have them play off of the lead of Karney. He will make their job easy. We know that there will be at least ONE linebacker that won't be in on the tackle. Karney also works well in pass protection, picking up the blitz, and allowing the other back to sneak out as a safety valve with linebacker coverage. So what! we have one less tightend - Karney gives us options - and that's what Payton/Brees likes - good options. Running the ball will continue to allow Brees to plant his feet in the pocket and have the kind of success and results that we have seen the past three weeks. Writing off the run will get us right back to the darkside.

bobad · 10-30-2007, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by darstep

Writing off the run will get us right back to the darkside.

Everything you said is true, but I don't think SP wrote off the run.

When we got up by 2 TD's, the 49ers started looking for us to run and play keep-away. They crowded the line, making it real hard to run on them. Besides that, Reggie got nicked.

I'm sure SP would have liked to run when up by 2-3 TD's. If he had a QB besides Brees, he probably would have run more.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 10-30-2007, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by darstep

Well you won't have to be Euph by yourself on this one. This was the problem when Duece was healthy - 9-10 carries a game when averaging 4.3. If we commit to running the ball, protecting Drew Brees in the pocket is easy. We actually showed signs of getting to the run and seems that we've backed off. If we can get a push early in the game, we will get some breakouts, and then we are pass blocking defenders that are on the heels and not on their toes. Hasn't meant much with our recent opponents, but our pass-pass-pass day of reconning is coming. Against good defenses, that have a decent pass rush, we have GOT to run the ball. The key to running Bush, Stecker, and Thomas, given their size and weight, is to have them play off of the lead of Karney. He will make their job easy. We know that there will be at least ONE linebacker that won't be in on the tackle. Karney also works well in pass protection, picking up the blitz, and allowing the other back to sneak out as a safety valve with linebacker coverage. So what! we have one less tightend - Karney gives us options - and that's what Payton/Brees likes - good options. Running the ball will continue to allow Brees to plant his feet in the pocket and have the kind of success and results that we have seen the past three weeks. Writing off the run will get us right back to the darkside.

Yeah! What he said too!

SFIAH

Budsdrinker · 10-30-2007, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDatQB

=====

But towards the end of the game when we are up and their D is getting nasty and if our O line breaks down and we continually have short drives without taking much time off the clock and we will get screwed. Especially when it turns cold and Payton wants to try and get up on the teams quickly and Brees has a ball or two go off line in the wind or just the plain fact of throwing in the cold. We need a running game, while I like high flying point scoring offenses as much or more than the next guy, you need to be able to run or have a dominant O line that will keep people off of Brees all day long no matter what and receivers that do not get the dropsies.

While I agree with getting up on teams early to help out our D, oh god believe me do I agree with it, when it turns 30 degrees and windy on us what are we gonna do? All of a sudden say, hey PT, Stecker, and Bush let's go out and run the ball? PT needs more carries and more time in the offense to get the blitz pickup down.

Unless you figure us to go undefeated the rest of the season and secure homefield throughout the playoffs?

Well, looking at the schedule there is only 1 game remaining outdoors that could possibly be in the 30's and that would be the last game aginst Chicago.
After that the only possibilities would be playoffs at Giants or Packers. So just put up the points and go from there.

Ghouse522 · 10-30-2007, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by LongTimeFan

Brees- 336 yards, 4 TD's and no INT's
Colston-85 yards, 3 TD's
Bush-113 total yards

31 points scored today.

No need to run much today when the passing game was freaking awesome.

3-4 and only one game back of the Bucs and Panthers

Totally agree

darstep · 10-30-2007, 07:42 PM

All that I am saying is that we are lop-sided, and its going to bite us. We can't wait until we get in a situation and HOPE that we can run the ball. Just like every other weapon in our arsenal, we've got to keep "running the ball" well oiled and battle tested. Passing the ball takes good timing. That comes from repetition - QB to each receiver in their standard routes. That spurs confidence in both, each knowing that the receiver and the ball will be in the same place - on time. Running the ball is not much different. Timing! - runners picking and hitting the holes (on time) and blocker holding the blocks to allow it. Game conditions can't be totally paralleled in practice sessions. We had a golden opp to actually improve/mold/perfect our running game this past week. PierreT could have gotten some work that will pay dividends when we do have to call on him in the future, and we will. We can't let it rust, then cry when it doesn't fire.

10-29-2007, 09:31 PM	#21
WhoDatQB Boondock Saint Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: F***ing Atlanta Posts: 322	Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball Originally Posted by Euphoria WhoDat you got good points but our running game is injured. Deuce can make the line look good without him we aren't that great up to middle. To be a good running team you have to have 2 things 1. O-LINE 2. Good/Great Defense You are correct to be a good running team you have to committ to it and do it and do it. You have to give payton credit getting by with what he has and what has been available to him. -We just don't have the personel to pound the ball as everyone has been asking for, nor the RB to do it right now. -Our D is suspect and to make up for that you have to score points. -When your record is less than 500 you have be agressive. ====== Deuce is injured but our running game has been grounded. I will agree our line is not a great run blocking Line. I can't give Payton too much credit when he is doing the same damn things he was last year, I just hope he doesn't continue to do it to our detriment. We do not know if we have the RB to pound the ball yet. For goodness sakes look at M JOnes-Drew, if he can pound it so can PT. I agree with our record what it is you have to be aggressive, but if we plan on doing anything other making a good showing in the regular season then we need to work on the run game. What game better to work on the run game than towards the end of this past game? The Saints have not had a better opportunity to work on the run game than they had last week. We have a good left side of the line, maybe not directly up the middle, but run between the LG and LT. Or at least try it

10-30-2007, 08:18 AM	#22
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball Originally Posted by WhoDatQB ===== But towards the end of the game when we are up and their D is getting nasty and if our O line breaks down and we continually have short drives without taking much time off the clock and we will get screwed. Especially when it turns cold and Payton wants to try and get up on the teams quickly and Brees has a ball or two go off line in the wind or just the plain fact of throwing in the cold. We need a running game, while I like high flying point scoring offenses as much or more than the next guy, you need to be able to run or have a dominant O line that will keep people off of Brees all day long no matter what and receivers that do not get the dropsies. While I agree with getting up on teams early to help out our D, oh god believe me do I agree with it, when it turns 30 degrees and windy on us what are we gonna do? All of a sudden say, hey PT, Stecker, and Bush let's go out and run the ball? PT needs more carries and more time in the offense to get the blitz pickup down. Unless you figure us to go undefeated the rest of the season and secure homefield throughout the playoffs? Yeah! What he said! SFIAH

10-30-2007, 08:55 AM	#23
darstep SaintSince67 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PortCity Posts: 2,044	Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL I guess I'm going to become the Euph of this subject. So why not run the ball to set up the pass? Bush had a 6.4 YPC average yesterday. But he only carried the ball 10 times. There are exposive plays in the run game. But you have to run the ball consistently to get to them. SFIAH Well you won't have to be Euph by yourself on this one. This was the problem when Duece was healthy - 9-10 carries a game when averaging 4.3. If we commit to running the ball, protecting Drew Brees in the pocket is easy. We actually showed signs of getting to the run and seems that we've backed off. If we can get a push early in the game, we will get some breakouts, and then we are pass blocking defenders that are on the heels and not on their toes. Hasn't meant much with our recent opponents, but our pass-pass-pass day of reconning is coming. Against good defenses, that have a decent pass rush, we have GOT to run the ball. The key to running Bush, Stecker, and Thomas, given their size and weight, is to have them play off of the lead of Karney. He will make their job easy. We know that there will be at least ONE linebacker that won't be in on the tackle. Karney also works well in pass protection, picking up the blitz, and allowing the other back to sneak out as a safety valve with linebacker coverage. So what! we have one less tightend - Karney gives us options - and that's what Payton/Brees likes - good options. Running the ball will continue to allow Brees to plant his feet in the pocket and have the kind of success and results that we have seen the past three weeks. Writing off the run will get us right back to the darkside.
	SaintSince67 Last edited by darstep; 10-30-2007 at 09:03 AM..

10-30-2007, 09:31 AM	#24
bobad 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 247	Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball Originally Posted by darstep Writing off the run will get us right back to the darkside. Everything you said is true, but I don't think SP wrote off the run. When we got up by 2 TD's, the 49ers started looking for us to run and play keep-away. They crowded the line, making it real hard to run on them. Besides that, Reggie got nicked. I'm sure SP would have liked to run when up by 2-3 TD's. If he had a QB besides Brees, he probably would have run more.
bobad 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 247

10-30-2007, 11:36 AM	#25
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball Originally Posted by darstep Well you won't have to be Euph by yourself on this one. This was the problem when Duece was healthy - 9-10 carries a game when averaging 4.3. If we commit to running the ball, protecting Drew Brees in the pocket is easy. We actually showed signs of getting to the run and seems that we've backed off. If we can get a push early in the game, we will get some breakouts, and then we are pass blocking defenders that are on the heels and not on their toes. Hasn't meant much with our recent opponents, but our pass-pass-pass day of reconning is coming. Against good defenses, that have a decent pass rush, we have GOT to run the ball. The key to running Bush, Stecker, and Thomas, given their size and weight, is to have them play off of the lead of Karney. He will make their job easy. We know that there will be at least ONE linebacker that won't be in on the tackle. Karney also works well in pass protection, picking up the blitz, and allowing the other back to sneak out as a safety valve with linebacker coverage. So what! we have one less tightend - Karney gives us options - and that's what Payton/Brees likes - good options. Running the ball will continue to allow Brees to plant his feet in the pocket and have the kind of success and results that we have seen the past three weeks. Writing off the run will get us right back to the darkside. Yeah! What he said too! SFIAH

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10-30-2007, 02:21 PM	#26
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball Originally Posted by WhoDatQB ===== But towards the end of the game when we are up and their D is getting nasty and if our O line breaks down and we continually have short drives without taking much time off the clock and we will get screwed. Especially when it turns cold and Payton wants to try and get up on the teams quickly and Brees has a ball or two go off line in the wind or just the plain fact of throwing in the cold. We need a running game, while I like high flying point scoring offenses as much or more than the next guy, you need to be able to run or have a dominant O line that will keep people off of Brees all day long no matter what and receivers that do not get the dropsies. While I agree with getting up on teams early to help out our D, oh god believe me do I agree with it, when it turns 30 degrees and windy on us what are we gonna do? All of a sudden say, hey PT, Stecker, and Bush let's go out and run the ball? PT needs more carries and more time in the offense to get the blitz pickup down. Unless you figure us to go undefeated the rest of the season and secure homefield throughout the playoffs? Well, looking at the schedule there is only 1 game remaining outdoors that could possibly be in the 30's and that would be the last game aginst Chicago. After that the only possibilities would be playoffs at Giants or Packers. So just put up the points and go from there.

10-30-2007, 06:37 PM	#27
Ghouse522 Rookie Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 17	Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball Originally Posted by LongTimeFan Brees- 336 yards, 4 TD's and no INT's Colston-85 yards, 3 TD's Bush-113 total yards 31 points scored today. No need to run much today when the passing game was freaking awesome. 3-4 and only one game back of the Bucs and Panthers Totally agree
Ghouse522 Rookie Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 17

10-30-2007, 07:42 PM	#28
darstep SaintSince67 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PortCity Posts: 2,044	Re: Is There a Lawsuit that prohibits the Saints from running the ball All that I am saying is that we are lop-sided, and its going to bite us. We can't wait until we get in a situation and HOPE that we can run the ball. Just like every other weapon in our arsenal, we've got to keep "running the ball" well oiled and battle tested. Passing the ball takes good timing. That comes from repetition - QB to each receiver in their standard routes. That spurs confidence in both, each knowing that the receiver and the ball will be in the same place - on time. Running the ball is not much different. Timing! - runners picking and hitting the holes (on time) and blocker holding the blocks to allow it. Game conditions can't be totally paralleled in practice sessions. We had a golden opp to actually improve/mold/perfect our running game this past week. PierreT could have gotten some work that will pay dividends when we do have to call on him in the future, and we will. We can't let it rust, then cry when it doesn't fire.
	SaintSince67