Thank you, Sean Payton

Euphoria · 11-13-2007, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by FrenzyFan

An opinion is an opinion, none more valuable than any other. Thank you for sharing yours.

In mine, there are some serious coaching problems on this team. I cannot explain the play calling, Olindo Mare's continued roster spot, Jason David continuing to start, etc. any other way that makes sense to me. In yours, Sean Payton is the second coming. You spoke of last years draft in glowing terms. I speak of this year's draft as a complete bust (so far - though I note that the guy we moved up to pick in the fourth round ran well AGAINST us yesterday after we cut him and kept Stecker).

I don't play Madden. I don't get the NFL network. I think analysts are mostly talking just to get a reaction, not saying what they think. All the same, I do know what a Mustang looks like and that I won't call one a Ferrari, simply because I love my Mustang.

When we are winning play calling is exceptional, when we lose its horrible. I am not buying its the play calling. What I am jumping on is the Saints/coaching staff are failing to make adjustments. A team comes out and takes a dimesion of your game or is doing well against you at something, you adjust and take what they give you. We could have run the ball more the blocking on what running plays we did run was good, very good. Pass blocking we were bad on overall. We were bull-rushed when they wanted to.

The Draft, you seriously can't judge a draft until 3-4 years down the road. You have to wait it out and let your talent develop. They have a lot of learning, developing and getting use to the speed of the game. Avoid getting use to expecting that gem every year. We got lucky with Colston, it happens. No one knew not even Payton. Take notes and in 2-3 more years then lets start a thread and judge the draft that would be more realistic.

You can however judge some Free Agent signings of Veterans though like Mare.

JOESAM2002 · 11-13-2007, 09:37 AM

And Jason David!

WhoDat205 · 11-13-2007, 09:57 AM

2004 Draft

Saints:
R1 (18.) - Will Smith
R2 (50) - Devery Henderson
R2 (60) - Courtney Watson
R5 (139) - Rodney Leisle
R5 (156) - Mike Karney
R7 (240) - Coby Buckwoldt

Here's what the Pats did:

21 - Vince Wilfork
32 - Ben Watson
63 - Marquise Hill
95 - Guss Scott
113 - Dexter Reid
128 - Cedric Cobbs
164 - P.K. Sam
233 - Christian Morton

SaintFanInATLHELL · 11-14-2007, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

When we are winning play calling is exceptional, when we lose its horrible. I am not buying its the play calling.

I disagree with this. When the Saints are winning, the execution is better. The playcalling is still problematic. On the offensive side of the ball there is never an established running game. It drives me crazy because every back that's put behind Karney is successful in the run game.

On the defensive side there are both personnel and scheme issues. In this league you have to blitz good QBs. While the defense has done a good job against the run, the lack of defensive pressure coupled with soft corner play make the defense worthless against any decent QB in this league. So you get games where you are torched against Manning, Garcia, and Bulger.

The playcalling is a part of the issue without a doubt.

What I am jumping on is the Saints/coaching staff are failing to make adjustments. A team comes out and takes a dimesion of your game or is doing well against you at something, you adjust and take what they give you. We could have run the ball more the blocking on what running plays we did run was good, very good. Pass blocking we were bad on overall. We were bull-rushed when they wanted to.

Agreed. Another aspect of rushing the ball is that it makes the opposing defenses think. When you are doing a hand wave play action, the D-line simply ignores the back and gets after the QB. With an established run game they actually have to think about that back going by.

The Saints should not abandon the run in a game ever.

The Draft, you seriously can't judge a draft until 3-4 years down the road. You have to wait it out and let your talent develop. They have a lot of learning, developing and getting use to the speed of the game. Avoid getting use to expecting that gem every year. We got lucky with Colston, it happens. No one knew not even Payton. Take notes and in 2-3 more years then lets start a thread and judge the draft that would be more realistic.

You can however judge some Free Agent signings of Veterans though like Mare.

The problem with the draft is that it seems like needs are not really being addressed. Receiver is one position that we have an overabundance of talent. Yet we spend a #1 pick on a receiver who has yet to sniff the field.

Another part seems to be a simple lack of recognition. Even I can see how Simeneou fails on the field virtually every play, yet he's still there.

Personnel adjustment is almost as bad as playcalling adjustment.

SFIAH

Bobaganoosh · 11-14-2007, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

The problem with the draft is that it seems like needs are not really being addressed. Receiver is one position that we have an overabundance of talent. Yet we spend a #1 pick on a receiver who has yet to sniff the field.
SFIAH

OK...I am going to have to disagree with this one. Will you please tell me where there is an overabundance of talent? Can you please tell me one WR we have not named Colston that could start for most teams in the league? Devery has been blasted this year by the media and mostly by people on this site for his inability to catch the ball. David Patten hasnt played more than 6 games in the last 3 years. Terrence Copper is nothing more than a 4th WR and a special teamer. So i dont think you can tell me that the need for a potential game breaking reciever from a big time school in a big time conference wasnt needed. He has not worked out for us yet, but there is still plenty of time and you have to think about the long term.

SAINTNHEAVEN · 11-16-2007, 02:23 PM

Hey Euphoria,
Well Said, Well Said.......

11-13-2007, 09:28 AM	#1
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton Originally Posted by FrenzyFan An opinion is an opinion, none more valuable than any other. Thank you for sharing yours. In mine, there are some serious coaching problems on this team. I cannot explain the play calling, Olindo Mare's continued roster spot, Jason David continuing to start, etc. any other way that makes sense to me. In yours, Sean Payton is the second coming. You spoke of last years draft in glowing terms. I speak of this year's draft as a complete bust (so far - though I note that the guy we moved up to pick in the fourth round ran well AGAINST us yesterday after we cut him and kept Stecker). I don't play Madden. I don't get the NFL network. I think analysts are mostly talking just to get a reaction, not saying what they think. All the same, I do know what a Mustang looks like and that I won't call one a Ferrari, simply because I love my Mustang. When we are winning play calling is exceptional, when we lose its horrible. I am not buying its the play calling. What I am jumping on is the Saints/coaching staff are failing to make adjustments. A team comes out and takes a dimesion of your game or is doing well against you at something, you adjust and take what they give you. We could have run the ball more the blocking on what running plays we did run was good, very good. Pass blocking we were bad on overall. We were bull-rushed when they wanted to. The Draft, you seriously can't judge a draft until 3-4 years down the road. You have to wait it out and let your talent develop. They have a lot of learning, developing and getting use to the speed of the game. Avoid getting use to expecting that gem every year. We got lucky with Colston, it happens. No one knew not even Payton. Take notes and in 2-3 more years then lets start a thread and judge the draft that would be more realistic. You can however judge some Free Agent signings of Veterans though like Mare.
	E U P H O R I A

11-13-2007, 09:37 AM	#2
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton And Jason David!

11-13-2007, 09:57 AM	#3
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton 2004 Draft Saints: R1 (18.) - Will Smith R2 (50) - Devery Henderson R2 (60) - Courtney Watson R5 (139) - Rodney Leisle R5 (156) - Mike Karney R7 (240) - Coby Buckwoldt Here's what the Pats did: 21 - Vince Wilfork 32 - Ben Watson 63 - Marquise Hill 95 - Guss Scott 113 - Dexter Reid 128 - Cedric Cobbs 164 - P.K. Sam 233 - Christian Morton

11-14-2007, 07:03 AM	#4
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,789	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton Originally Posted by Euphoria When we are winning play calling is exceptional, when we lose its horrible. I am not buying its the play calling. I disagree with this. When the Saints are winning, the execution is better. The playcalling is still problematic. On the offensive side of the ball there is never an established running game. It drives me crazy because every back that's put behind Karney is successful in the run game. On the defensive side there are both personnel and scheme issues. In this league you have to blitz good QBs. While the defense has done a good job against the run, the lack of defensive pressure coupled with soft corner play make the defense worthless against any decent QB in this league. So you get games where you are torched against Manning, Garcia, and Bulger. The playcalling is a part of the issue without a doubt. What I am jumping on is the Saints/coaching staff are failing to make adjustments. A team comes out and takes a dimesion of your game or is doing well against you at something, you adjust and take what they give you. We could have run the ball more the blocking on what running plays we did run was good, very good. Pass blocking we were bad on overall. We were bull-rushed when they wanted to. Agreed. Another aspect of rushing the ball is that it makes the opposing defenses think. When you are doing a hand wave play action, the D-line simply ignores the back and gets after the QB. With an established run game they actually have to think about that back going by. The Saints should not abandon the run in a game ever. The Draft, you seriously can't judge a draft until 3-4 years down the road. You have to wait it out and let your talent develop. They have a lot of learning, developing and getting use to the speed of the game. Avoid getting use to expecting that gem every year. We got lucky with Colston, it happens. No one knew not even Payton. Take notes and in 2-3 more years then lets start a thread and judge the draft that would be more realistic. You can however judge some Free Agent signings of Veterans though like Mare. The problem with the draft is that it seems like needs are not really being addressed. Receiver is one position that we have an overabundance of talent. Yet we spend a #1 pick on a receiver who has yet to sniff the field. Another part seems to be a simple lack of recognition. Even I can see how Simeneou fails on the field virtually every play, yet he's still there. Personnel adjustment is almost as bad as playcalling adjustment. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

11-14-2007, 02:26 PM	#5
Bobaganoosh PorkchopExpress Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 608 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL The problem with the draft is that it seems like needs are not really being addressed. Receiver is one position that we have an overabundance of talent. Yet we spend a #1 pick on a receiver who has yet to sniff the field. SFIAH OK...I am going to have to disagree with this one. Will you please tell me where there is an overabundance of talent? Can you please tell me one WR we have not named Colston that could start for most teams in the league? Devery has been blasted this year by the media and mostly by people on this site for his inability to catch the ball. David Patten hasnt played more than 6 games in the last 3 years. Terrence Copper is nothing more than a 4th WR and a special teamer. So i dont think you can tell me that the need for a potential game breaking reciever from a big time school in a big time conference wasnt needed. He has not worked out for us yet, but there is still plenty of time and you have to think about the long term.
	It's all in the reflexes.

11-16-2007, 02:23 PM	#6
SAINTNHEAVEN Rookie Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 12	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton Hey Euphoria, Well Said, Well Said.......
SAINTNHEAVEN Rookie Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 12