Thank you, Sean Payton

JOESAM2002 · 11-13-2007, 10:37 AM

And Jason David!

WhoDat205 · 11-13-2007, 10:57 AM

2004 Draft

Saints:
R1 (18.) - Will Smith
R2 (50) - Devery Henderson
R2 (60) - Courtney Watson
R5 (139) - Rodney Leisle
R5 (156) - Mike Karney
R7 (240) - Coby Buckwoldt

Here's what the Pats did:

21 - Vince Wilfork
32 - Ben Watson
63 - Marquise Hill
95 - Guss Scott
113 - Dexter Reid
128 - Cedric Cobbs
164 - P.K. Sam
233 - Christian Morton

SaintFanInATLHELL · 11-14-2007, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

When we are winning play calling is exceptional, when we lose its horrible. I am not buying its the play calling.

I disagree with this. When the Saints are winning, the execution is better. The playcalling is still problematic. On the offensive side of the ball there is never an established running game. It drives me crazy because every back that's put behind Karney is successful in the run game.

On the defensive side there are both personnel and scheme issues. In this league you have to blitz good QBs. While the defense has done a good job against the run, the lack of defensive pressure coupled with soft corner play make the defense worthless against any decent QB in this league. So you get games where you are torched against Manning, Garcia, and Bulger.

The playcalling is a part of the issue without a doubt.

What I am jumping on is the Saints/coaching staff are failing to make adjustments. A team comes out and takes a dimesion of your game or is doing well against you at something, you adjust and take what they give you. We could have run the ball more the blocking on what running plays we did run was good, very good. Pass blocking we were bad on overall. We were bull-rushed when they wanted to.

Agreed. Another aspect of rushing the ball is that it makes the opposing defenses think. When you are doing a hand wave play action, the D-line simply ignores the back and gets after the QB. With an established run game they actually have to think about that back going by.

The Saints should not abandon the run in a game ever.

The Draft, you seriously can't judge a draft until 3-4 years down the road. You have to wait it out and let your talent develop. They have a lot of learning, developing and getting use to the speed of the game. Avoid getting use to expecting that gem every year. We got lucky with Colston, it happens. No one knew not even Payton. Take notes and in 2-3 more years then lets start a thread and judge the draft that would be more realistic.

You can however judge some Free Agent signings of Veterans though like Mare.

The problem with the draft is that it seems like needs are not really being addressed. Receiver is one position that we have an overabundance of talent. Yet we spend a #1 pick on a receiver who has yet to sniff the field.

Another part seems to be a simple lack of recognition. Even I can see how Simeneou fails on the field virtually every play, yet he's still there.

Personnel adjustment is almost as bad as playcalling adjustment.

SFIAH

bobcat4u2 · 11-14-2007, 08:40 AM

think we should go back to " HASLETT"
the great " DITKA? "
we have average team,it'll take a few more drafts like last year and luck in free agency
to become " ELITE " team
think we are unhappy,try sd fans with the talent left them

saints9 · 11-14-2007, 11:58 AM

Sean Payton, screwed the Saints with his draft picks, screwed them. He picked before the Colts, why didn't he get Ugo or Chris Houston? Why is it that he has to pick player from schools like Wingate, and Kent, than put David Jones on the practice field and keep Fred Thomas? If it's offensive lineman that he needs, why not go after the best? If it's cornerbacks that the Saints needed, He could have taken Chris Houston, than Usama Young. No he goes and get a player that he know was injuried, Robert Meachum, why? There's tons of Talent in the Sec, Big Ten. How many interceptions does Drew Brees, Has, 15, what's up with this. Sean Payton should have known from last year, that Drew needs protection, Drew can't take the heat, go and get Sec talent, get some line-men who can open up the running lanes for Reggie Bush. Poor Reggie, he might get killed playing for the New Orleans, 40 year jinx Saints. And by the way, get a quarterback, that has some mobility, that can help the offensive lineman, Dree Brees stand back in the pocket like a damn statue, and want move, he sucks, don't talk about Aaron Brooks, because Drew Brees in killing the Saints.

darstep · 11-14-2007, 02:09 PM

Watchout Saints9! you just opened up a can of worms, Pandora's box, stirred up a bee hive, and let the dogs out. There are some who think Drew is the 2nd coming. You are supposed to turn a blind eye to the picks and blame the O-line when he gets hammered and fumbles. Then you really stirred up the sh!t by mentioning the two Br's in the same sentence. Man, You must love a good fight! Watch this one give birth to its own thread. Why don't you start the impeachment process...start gathering signatures.

Budsdrinker · 11-14-2007, 02:57 PM

Anyone who compares Brooks to Brees doesn't know his orifice from a hole in the ground and not worth arguing with. But for argument sake what QB would you recommend?

Bobaganoosh · 11-14-2007, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

The problem with the draft is that it seems like needs are not really being addressed. Receiver is one position that we have an overabundance of talent. Yet we spend a #1 pick on a receiver who has yet to sniff the field.
SFIAH

OK...I am going to have to disagree with this one. Will you please tell me where there is an overabundance of talent? Can you please tell me one WR we have not named Colston that could start for most teams in the league? Devery has been blasted this year by the media and mostly by people on this site for his inability to catch the ball. David Patten hasnt played more than 6 games in the last 3 years. Terrence Copper is nothing more than a 4th WR and a special teamer. So i dont think you can tell me that the need for a potential game breaking reciever from a big time school in a big time conference wasnt needed. He has not worked out for us yet, but there is still plenty of time and you have to think about the long term.

Euphoria · 11-14-2007, 03:28 PM

I don't think anyone should look at the Robert Meachum pick as anything but as a replacement WR for the future. You don't draft a WR to come in an contribute on day one. They take time to develop and get use to the speed. We got lucky with Colston. There was no way have being sure that this team had a lot of talent at WR until the season began and even that is arguable. They are making contributions and that is great.

Playcalling shcplaycalling... its not just play calling its ADJUSTMENTS, which is the big picture. If something isn't working for you you have to make adjustments that means 'playcalling', 'personel', 'attitude', 'gameplan'. Its everything. That is were we have utterly failed this year. You should see a different team come out in the second half to counter what your opponets do and the Saints have not picked up on some of the things that are going on during the game. Even Payton has made mention of this. I totally agree being aggressive against some teams and score lots and often early and force your opponet out of there game plan to run with you, put them in a whole and make the fight out of it which will help create some turnovers.

What I saw in the Rams game is run blocking was perhaps the best I have seen all year from our Oline and the Pass protection was very week. The Saints didn't adjust and attack more on the run. Thats definately the coaching.

You also do have to scrap the run at times if you are behind in a game you got to pass. You'll run out of time running the ball. You can only run effectively when you are ahead.

Bobaganoosh · 11-14-2007, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by saints9

Sean Payton, screwed the Saints with his draft picks, screwed them. He picked before the Colts, why didn't he get Ugo or Chris Houston? Why is it that he has to pick player from schools like Wingate, and Kent, than put David Jones on the practice field and keep Fred Thomas? If it's offensive lineman that he needs, why not go after the best? If it's cornerbacks that the Saints needed, He could have taken Chris Houston, than Usama Young. No he goes and get a player that he know was injuried, Robert Meachum, why? There's tons of Talent in the Sec, Big Ten. How many interceptions does Drew Brees, Has, 15, what's up with this. Sean Payton should have known from last year, that Drew needs protection, Drew can't take the heat, go and get Sec talent, get some line-men who can open up the running lanes for Reggie Bush. Poor Reggie, he might get killed playing for the New Orleans, 40 year jinx Saints. And by the way, get a quarterback, that has some mobility, that can help the offensive lineman, Dree Brees stand back in the pocket like a damn statue, and want move, he sucks, don't talk about Aaron Brooks, because Drew Brees in killing the Saints.

This may have been the longest useless post i have ever read. First off, why draft Ugoh when Brown was an All-Pro, Stinchcomb just got an extension, Strief dominated the Bucs in his only start...so there are 3 tackles we have so why take another in the first round? Chris Houston is going to keep on getting abused for as long as he is in the NFL...he relies to much on contact and he will lead the league in PI penalties when it is all said and done. My favorite quote from you was that Payton should know from last year that Brees needed protection? Thats right, he does know that...and Brees was only sacked 15 times last year...that is phenominal. So i disagree with every single thing you said and your idea for the draft was downright laughable. But you are right...Drew Brees cant hold a candle to Aaron Brooks. We should get on the phone with AB right now and get him in here. He is, and always has been the answer for this franchise.

11-13-2007, 10:37 AM	#11
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton And Jason David!

11-13-2007, 10:57 AM	#12
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton 2004 Draft Saints: R1 (18.) - Will Smith R2 (50) - Devery Henderson R2 (60) - Courtney Watson R5 (139) - Rodney Leisle R5 (156) - Mike Karney R7 (240) - Coby Buckwoldt Here's what the Pats did: 21 - Vince Wilfork 32 - Ben Watson 63 - Marquise Hill 95 - Guss Scott 113 - Dexter Reid 128 - Cedric Cobbs 164 - P.K. Sam 233 - Christian Morton

11-14-2007, 08:03 AM	#13
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton Originally Posted by Euphoria When we are winning play calling is exceptional, when we lose its horrible. I am not buying its the play calling. I disagree with this. When the Saints are winning, the execution is better. The playcalling is still problematic. On the offensive side of the ball there is never an established running game. It drives me crazy because every back that's put behind Karney is successful in the run game. On the defensive side there are both personnel and scheme issues. In this league you have to blitz good QBs. While the defense has done a good job against the run, the lack of defensive pressure coupled with soft corner play make the defense worthless against any decent QB in this league. So you get games where you are torched against Manning, Garcia, and Bulger. The playcalling is a part of the issue without a doubt. What I am jumping on is the Saints/coaching staff are failing to make adjustments. A team comes out and takes a dimesion of your game or is doing well against you at something, you adjust and take what they give you. We could have run the ball more the blocking on what running plays we did run was good, very good. Pass blocking we were bad on overall. We were bull-rushed when they wanted to. Agreed. Another aspect of rushing the ball is that it makes the opposing defenses think. When you are doing a hand wave play action, the D-line simply ignores the back and gets after the QB. With an established run game they actually have to think about that back going by. The Saints should not abandon the run in a game ever. The Draft, you seriously can't judge a draft until 3-4 years down the road. You have to wait it out and let your talent develop. They have a lot of learning, developing and getting use to the speed of the game. Avoid getting use to expecting that gem every year. We got lucky with Colston, it happens. No one knew not even Payton. Take notes and in 2-3 more years then lets start a thread and judge the draft that would be more realistic. You can however judge some Free Agent signings of Veterans though like Mare. The problem with the draft is that it seems like needs are not really being addressed. Receiver is one position that we have an overabundance of talent. Yet we spend a #1 pick on a receiver who has yet to sniff the field. Another part seems to be a simple lack of recognition. Even I can see how Simeneou fails on the field virtually every play, yet he's still there. Personnel adjustment is almost as bad as playcalling adjustment. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

11-14-2007, 08:40 AM	#14
bobcat4u2 Registered Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 71	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton think we should go back to " HASLETT" the great " DITKA? " we have average team,it'll take a few more drafts like last year and luck in free agency to become " ELITE " team think we are unhappy,try sd fans with the talent left them
bobcat4u2 Registered Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 71

11-14-2007, 11:58 AM	#15
saints9 Registered Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 38	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton Sean Payton, screwed the Saints with his draft picks, screwed them. He picked before the Colts, why didn't he get Ugo or Chris Houston? Why is it that he has to pick player from schools like Wingate, and Kent, than put David Jones on the practice field and keep Fred Thomas? If it's offensive lineman that he needs, why not go after the best? If it's cornerbacks that the Saints needed, He could have taken Chris Houston, than Usama Young. No he goes and get a player that he know was injuried, Robert Meachum, why? There's tons of Talent in the Sec, Big Ten. How many interceptions does Drew Brees, Has, 15, what's up with this. Sean Payton should have known from last year, that Drew needs protection, Drew can't take the heat, go and get Sec talent, get some line-men who can open up the running lanes for Reggie Bush. Poor Reggie, he might get killed playing for the New Orleans, 40 year jinx Saints. And by the way, get a quarterback, that has some mobility, that can help the offensive lineman, Dree Brees stand back in the pocket like a damn statue, and want move, he sucks, don't talk about Aaron Brooks, because Drew Brees in killing the Saints.
saints9 Registered Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 38

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11-14-2007, 02:09 PM	#16
darstep SaintSince67 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PortCity Posts: 2,044	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton Watchout Saints9! you just opened up a can of worms, Pandora's box, stirred up a bee hive, and let the dogs out. There are some who think Drew is the 2nd coming. You are supposed to turn a blind eye to the picks and blame the O-line when he gets hammered and fumbles. Then you really stirred up the sh!t by mentioning the two Br's in the same sentence. Man, You must love a good fight! Watch this one give birth to its own thread. Why don't you start the impeachment process...start gathering signatures.
	SaintSince67

11-14-2007, 02:57 PM	#17
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton Anyone who compares Brooks to Brees doesn't know his orifice from a hole in the ground and not worth arguing with. But for argument sake what QB would you recommend?

11-14-2007, 03:26 PM	#18
Bobaganoosh PorkchopExpress Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 608 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL The problem with the draft is that it seems like needs are not really being addressed. Receiver is one position that we have an overabundance of talent. Yet we spend a #1 pick on a receiver who has yet to sniff the field. SFIAH OK...I am going to have to disagree with this one. Will you please tell me where there is an overabundance of talent? Can you please tell me one WR we have not named Colston that could start for most teams in the league? Devery has been blasted this year by the media and mostly by people on this site for his inability to catch the ball. David Patten hasnt played more than 6 games in the last 3 years. Terrence Copper is nothing more than a 4th WR and a special teamer. So i dont think you can tell me that the need for a potential game breaking reciever from a big time school in a big time conference wasnt needed. He has not worked out for us yet, but there is still plenty of time and you have to think about the long term.
	It's all in the reflexes.

11-14-2007, 03:28 PM	#19
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton I don't think anyone should look at the Robert Meachum pick as anything but as a replacement WR for the future. You don't draft a WR to come in an contribute on day one. They take time to develop and get use to the speed. We got lucky with Colston. There was no way have being sure that this team had a lot of talent at WR until the season began and even that is arguable. They are making contributions and that is great. Playcalling shcplaycalling... its not just play calling its ADJUSTMENTS, which is the big picture. If something isn't working for you you have to make adjustments that means 'playcalling', 'personel', 'attitude', 'gameplan'. Its everything. That is were we have utterly failed this year. You should see a different team come out in the second half to counter what your opponets do and the Saints have not picked up on some of the things that are going on during the game. Even Payton has made mention of this. I totally agree being aggressive against some teams and score lots and often early and force your opponet out of there game plan to run with you, put them in a whole and make the fight out of it which will help create some turnovers. What I saw in the Rams game is run blocking was perhaps the best I have seen all year from our Oline and the Pass protection was very week. The Saints didn't adjust and attack more on the run. Thats definately the coaching. You also do have to scrap the run at times if you are behind in a game you got to pass. You'll run out of time running the ball. You can only run effectively when you are ahead.
	E U P H O R I A

11-14-2007, 03:32 PM	#20
Bobaganoosh PorkchopExpress Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 608 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Thank you, Sean Payton Originally Posted by saints9 Sean Payton, screwed the Saints with his draft picks, screwed them. He picked before the Colts, why didn't he get Ugo or Chris Houston? Why is it that he has to pick player from schools like Wingate, and Kent, than put David Jones on the practice field and keep Fred Thomas? If it's offensive lineman that he needs, why not go after the best? If it's cornerbacks that the Saints needed, He could have taken Chris Houston, than Usama Young. No he goes and get a player that he know was injuried, Robert Meachum, why? There's tons of Talent in the Sec, Big Ten. How many interceptions does Drew Brees, Has, 15, what's up with this. Sean Payton should have known from last year, that Drew needs protection, Drew can't take the heat, go and get Sec talent, get some line-men who can open up the running lanes for Reggie Bush. Poor Reggie, he might get killed playing for the New Orleans, 40 year jinx Saints. And by the way, get a quarterback, that has some mobility, that can help the offensive lineman, Dree Brees stand back in the pocket like a damn statue, and want move, he sucks, don't talk about Aaron Brooks, because Drew Brees in killing the Saints. This may have been the longest useless post i have ever read. First off, why draft Ugoh when Brown was an All-Pro, Stinchcomb just got an extension, Strief dominated the Bucs in his only start...so there are 3 tackles we have so why take another in the first round? Chris Houston is going to keep on getting abused for as long as he is in the NFL...he relies to much on contact and he will lead the league in PI penalties when it is all said and done. My favorite quote from you was that Payton should know from last year that Brees needed protection? Thats right, he does know that...and Brees was only sacked 15 times last year...that is phenominal. So i disagree with every single thing you said and your idea for the draft was downright laughable. But you are right...Drew Brees cant hold a candle to Aaron Brooks. We should get on the phone with AB right now and get him in here. He is, and always has been the answer for this franchise.
	It's all in the reflexes.