Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David

Budsdrinker · 12-28-2007, 07:27 AM

The Saints aren't the only team that has made mistakes in the draft. Can you say Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf. Lots of teams make mistakes in the draft. Whether it's the scouting or the fact that it's that much harder in the NFL then college for some players who knows. But the one thing to remember is even though the 2007 draft and free agency pickups wasn't a success, the Saints did try to upgrade some weaknesses. Maybe not in all the right places but they did try. Yes I know JD sucks but who did he replace? Fred blow by you Thomas. Everyone called for a replacement and the Saints responded just not very well. Last year other than Colston the receiver cord was very inconsistent, Meachum looked good at Tennessee. We still don't know how he'll be in the NFL but I'm willing to give him until next year. Take a look at the RB situation right now. Moving up to pick Pittman wasn't that bad of a move until the coaches found out undrafted RB Pierre Thomas was a better runner. My point being yes there seems to be a problem in evaluating talent but I think it is widespread in the NFL not just in New Orleans. We just love football that much that it is that much more noticeable to us. The NFL is a business and I'm willing to bet these scouts are getting kick backs from player's agents to put in a good word or two to the GMs and the people who make the decisions on which players to pick up. Here's to a better offseason in 2008. Happy New Year to all of you.

saintsfan1976 · 12-28-2007, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker

The Saints aren't the only team that has made mistakes in the draft. Can you say Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf. Lots of teams make mistakes in the draft. Whether it's the scouting or the fact that it's that much harder in the NFL then college for some players who knows. But the one thing to remember is even though the 2007 draft and free agency pickups wasn't a success, the Saints did try to upgrade some weaknesses. Maybe not in all the right places but they did try. Yes I know JD sucks but who did he replace? Fred blow by you Thomas. Everyone called for a replacement and the Saints responded just not very well. Last year other than Colston the receiver cord was very inconsistent, Meachum looked good at Tennessee. We still don't know how he'll be in the NFL but I'm willing to give him until next year. Take a look at the RB situation right now. Moving up to pick Pittman wasn't that bad of a move until the coaches found out undrafted RB Pierre Thomas was a better runner. My point being yes there seems to be a problem in evaluating talent but I think it is widespread in the NFL not just in New Orleans. We just love football that much that it is that much more noticeable to us. The NFL is a business and I'm willing to bet these scouts are getting kick backs from player's agents to put in a good word or two to the GMs and the people who make the decisions on which players to pick up. Here's to a better offseason in 2008. Happy New Year to all of you.

No, it's not just just the Saints or the NFL... From sports to business to stocks to government - Busts are widespread.

No matter how many timers, yard sticks and weights you use... we still can't measure the future!

LordOfEntropy · 12-28-2007, 08:26 AM

Well, I think the subject of this post is valid discussion, though I know some of you disagree. I don't think it's just griping.

But back to the topic, it's not the the talent evaluation that's bummed me out recently. I know that's a crapshoot. Anyone can flop from the draft, no one's perfect at evaluation. But rather, it's been the positions being targeted, in the order they're being targeted.

Bottom line, I don't care whether Meachem can play or not - he was the wrong position to pick at #1. It was a poor choice. I can't understand how management justifies WR when we're so desperate for talent on the defense.

Over the last few years, we have not targeted CB, S, or LB in the first round. And it's killing us, I think. I really think that's what's wrong with the team right now.

Haps Biggest Fan · 12-28-2007, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by LordOfEntropy

Well, I think the subject of this post is valid discussion, though I know some of you disagree. I don't think it's just griping.

But back to the topic, it's not the the talent evaluation that's bummed me out recently. I know that's a crapshoot. Anyone can flop from the draft, no one's perfect at evaluation. But rather, it's been the positions being targeted, in the order they're being targeted.

Bottom line, I don't care whether Meachem can play or not - he was the wrong position to pick at #1. It was a poor choice. I can't understand how management justifies WR when we're so desperate for talent on the defense.

Over the last few years, we have not targeted CB, S, or LB in the first round. And it's killing us, I think. I really think that's what's wrong with the team right now.

You have a great point here . . . you may be absolutely right.

WillMacKenzie · 12-28-2007, 04:45 PM

I present to you MY argument.

Coaching.

Coaching raw talent, and shaping them into competitive NFL players.

All the 40 yard dash times, shuttles, verticle leap, etc. etc. those are all just TOOLS - without a craftsman they're just junk lying around the shed.

I conject that we need to aim for bringing in a proven, big-name student and teacher of the game to coach up our defense. Singletary, Rex Ryan, Jim Johnson, somewhere along those lines, they can coach up any talent.

Eagles, Colts, Patriots, Steelers, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Bears, Seahawks, Chargers, Broncos, Ravens, all these teams usually have GOOD defenses year in and year out even with the player turnover they get.

So I ask again, talent vs. coaching?

Haps Biggest Fan · 12-28-2007, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by WillMacKenzie

I present to you MY argument.

Coaching.

Coaching raw talent, and shaping them into competitive NFL players.

All the 40 yard dash times, shuttles, verticle leap, etc. etc. those are all just TOOLS - without a craftsman they're just junk lying around the shed.

I conject that we need to aim for bringing in a proven, big-name student and teacher of the game to coach up our defense. Singletary, Rex Ryan, Jim Johnson, somewhere along those lines, they can coach up any talent.

Eagles, Colts, Patriots, Steelers, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Bears, Seahawks, Chargers, Broncos, Ravens, all these teams usually have GOOD defenses year in and year out even with the player turnover they get.

So I ask again, talent vs. coaching?

I like our head football coach. I have no opinion on the OC and DC.

hagan714 · 12-28-2007, 05:58 PM

Meachem was a value point pick at the time. BPA. No he did not fit a pressing need but he did fill a need. Horn was not going to be on the team and Henderson is not the answer at #2. So at the time he was the pick. Till he hits the field I can not pass judgment. But to this date he still is the BPA at that point. Except for 2 or 3 players that are actually playing he has not proven to be a bad pick.

Haps Biggest Fan · 12-28-2007, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by hagan714

Meachem was a value point pick at the time. BPA. No he did not fit a pressing need but he did fill a need. Horn was not going to be on the team and Henderson is not the answer at #2. So at the time he was the pick. Till he hits the field I can not pass judgment. But to this date he still is the BPA at that point. Except for 2 or 3 players that are actually playing he has not proven to be a bad pick.

True. He is a flop for this season alone.

Everybody wants him to start in and produce in every game next year.

My point is not totally invalid, however. I seriously doubt that the Saints FO expected him to sit out his entire first year when they made him their first pick.

Look, I simply have little confidence in our scouts and our front office. I'm pretty sure that most of us would agree with me on this.

QBREES9 · 12-28-2007, 10:24 PM

Over the last few years, we have not targeted CB, S, or LB in the first round. And it's killing us, I think. I really think that's what's wrong with the team right now.

You're right. They need to do the right thing this draft CB LBand maybe another CB

hagan714 · 12-29-2007, 05:46 AM

I will not argue the point that the saints have in the past two years been building the offense. first you sign Drew to a mega contract coming off a shoulder injury. You better have the line. Then Bush falls into your lap. You really have you hand forced now. So in two years we have turned over the starting and have one remaining player and the depth to lead the NFL in the fewest sacks allowed in both years. Now that coaching and FO work at its finest. But at what cost?
The defense has not really been addressed. The team knows it. It is us the fans that that need a little insight. Thats why so many defensive players have been signed to one year deals over the past two years. They are stop gap measures, thats all. A temp fix till we get started on that side of the ball. Why sign players that you know do not fit your long term plans to long contracts? It just makes the rebuilding process that much longer. This is why I give Gibbs a pass. He is dealing with a situation he has really no control over. He knows the plans and is trying to the best he can with the players he has got. Many are nothing more than top notch backups around the NFL patched together as a starting unit. Now when we start getting those real starter types on the team you all will love the depth the coaches have added for now. I am telling you if you look at this from that angle we have all the bench players we need. One heck of an excellent group of second stringers. Depth will not be an issue. So forget about the second half of that building part. That part has been done. Heck they even got a couple of starters along the way.
But do we now go all out and not finish the job on the offensive side of the ball? We are so close. One to 3 pieces are needed. Thats it. I say finish the job you have started. Will the draft be so one sided? No way. we are almost done.

12-28-2007, 08:26 AM	#3
LordOfEntropy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 1,838	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David Well, I think the subject of this post is valid discussion, though I know some of you disagree. I don't think it's just griping. But back to the topic, it's not the the talent evaluation that's bummed me out recently. I know that's a crapshoot. Anyone can flop from the draft, no one's perfect at evaluation. But rather, it's been the positions being targeted, in the order they're being targeted. Bottom line, I don't care whether Meachem can play or not - he was the wrong position to pick at #1. It was a poor choice. I can't understand how management justifies WR when we're so desperate for talent on the defense. Over the last few years, we have not targeted CB, S, or LB in the first round. And it's killing us, I think. I really think that's what's wrong with the team right now.
	can anyone help me id this tune? it goes thwap thwap boom tch boom tch boom tch. Qui a laissez sortir les chiens!

12-28-2007, 04:01 PM	#4
Haps Biggest Fan Fan Since 1967 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 148	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David Originally Posted by LordOfEntropy Well, I think the subject of this post is valid discussion, though I know some of you disagree. I don't think it's just griping. But back to the topic, it's not the the talent evaluation that's bummed me out recently. I know that's a crapshoot. Anyone can flop from the draft, no one's perfect at evaluation. But rather, it's been the positions being targeted, in the order they're being targeted. Bottom line, I don't care whether Meachem can play or not - he was the wrong position to pick at #1. It was a poor choice. I can't understand how management justifies WR when we're so desperate for talent on the defense. Over the last few years, we have not targeted CB, S, or LB in the first round. And it's killing us, I think. I really think that's what's wrong with the team right now. You have a great point here . . . you may be absolutely right.

12-28-2007, 04:45 PM	#5
WillMacKenzie 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,627	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David I present to you MY argument. Coaching. Coaching raw talent, and shaping them into competitive NFL players. All the 40 yard dash times, shuttles, verticle leap, etc. etc. those are all just TOOLS - without a craftsman they're just junk lying around the shed. I conject that we need to aim for bringing in a proven, big-name student and teacher of the game to coach up our defense. Singletary, Rex Ryan, Jim Johnson, somewhere along those lines, they can coach up any talent. Eagles, Colts, Patriots, Steelers, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Bears, Seahawks, Chargers, Broncos, Ravens, all these teams usually have GOOD defenses year in and year out even with the player turnover they get. So I ask again, talent vs. coaching?

12-28-2007, 09:07 PM	#6
Haps Biggest Fan Fan Since 1967 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 148	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David Originally Posted by WillMacKenzie I present to you MY argument. Coaching. Coaching raw talent, and shaping them into competitive NFL players. All the 40 yard dash times, shuttles, verticle leap, etc. etc. those are all just TOOLS - without a craftsman they're just junk lying around the shed. I conject that we need to aim for bringing in a proven, big-name student and teacher of the game to coach up our defense. Singletary, Rex Ryan, Jim Johnson, somewhere along those lines, they can coach up any talent. Eagles, Colts, Patriots, Steelers, Tampa Bay, Dallas, Bears, Seahawks, Chargers, Broncos, Ravens, all these teams usually have GOOD defenses year in and year out even with the player turnover they get. So I ask again, talent vs. coaching? I like our head football coach. I have no opinion on the OC and DC.

12-28-2007, 05:58 PM	#7
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David Meachem was a value point pick at the time. BPA. No he did not fit a pressing need but he did fill a need. Horn was not going to be on the team and Henderson is not the answer at #2. So at the time he was the pick. Till he hits the field I can not pass judgment. But to this date he still is the BPA at that point. Except for 2 or 3 players that are actually playing he has not proven to be a bad pick.

12-28-2007, 07:27 AM	#1
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David The Saints aren't the only team that has made mistakes in the draft. Can you say Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf. Lots of teams make mistakes in the draft. Whether it's the scouting or the fact that it's that much harder in the NFL then college for some players who knows. But the one thing to remember is even though the 2007 draft and free agency pickups wasn't a success, the Saints did try to upgrade some weaknesses. Maybe not in all the right places but they did try. Yes I know JD sucks but who did he replace? Fred blow by you Thomas. Everyone called for a replacement and the Saints responded just not very well. Last year other than Colston the receiver cord was very inconsistent, Meachum looked good at Tennessee. We still don't know how he'll be in the NFL but I'm willing to give him until next year. Take a look at the RB situation right now. Moving up to pick Pittman wasn't that bad of a move until the coaches found out undrafted RB Pierre Thomas was a better runner. My point being yes there seems to be a problem in evaluating talent but I think it is widespread in the NFL not just in New Orleans. We just love football that much that it is that much more noticeable to us. The NFL is a business and I'm willing to bet these scouts are getting kick backs from player's agents to put in a good word or two to the GMs and the people who make the decisions on which players to pick up. Here's to a better offseason in 2008. Happy New Year to all of you.

12-28-2007, 08:12 AM	#2
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,996 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David Originally Posted by Budsdrinker The Saints aren't the only team that has made mistakes in the draft. Can you say Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf. Lots of teams make mistakes in the draft. Whether it's the scouting or the fact that it's that much harder in the NFL then college for some players who knows. But the one thing to remember is even though the 2007 draft and free agency pickups wasn't a success, the Saints did try to upgrade some weaknesses. Maybe not in all the right places but they did try. Yes I know JD sucks but who did he replace? Fred blow by you Thomas. Everyone called for a replacement and the Saints responded just not very well. Last year other than Colston the receiver cord was very inconsistent, Meachum looked good at Tennessee. We still don't know how he'll be in the NFL but I'm willing to give him until next year. Take a look at the RB situation right now. Moving up to pick Pittman wasn't that bad of a move until the coaches found out undrafted RB Pierre Thomas was a better runner. My point being yes there seems to be a problem in evaluating talent but I think it is widespread in the NFL not just in New Orleans. We just love football that much that it is that much more noticeable to us. The NFL is a business and I'm willing to bet these scouts are getting kick backs from player's agents to put in a good word or two to the GMs and the people who make the decisions on which players to pick up. Here's to a better offseason in 2008. Happy New Year to all of you. No, it's not just just the Saints or the NFL... From sports to business to stocks to government - Busts are widespread. No matter how many timers, yard sticks and weights you use... we still can't measure the future!

12-28-2007, 09:05 PM	#8
Haps Biggest Fan Fan Since 1967 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 148	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David Originally Posted by hagan714 Meachem was a value point pick at the time. BPA. No he did not fit a pressing need but he did fill a need. Horn was not going to be on the team and Henderson is not the answer at #2. So at the time he was the pick. Till he hits the field I can not pass judgment. But to this date he still is the BPA at that point. Except for 2 or 3 players that are actually playing he has not proven to be a bad pick. True. He is a flop for this season alone. Everybody wants him to start in and produce in every game next year. My point is not totally invalid, however. I seriously doubt that the Saints FO expected him to sit out his entire first year when they made him their first pick. Look, I simply have little confidence in our scouts and our front office. I'm pretty sure that most of us would agree with me on this.

12-28-2007, 10:24 PM	#9
QBREES9 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Haven Ct Posts: 23,989	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David Over the last few years, we have not targeted CB, S, or LB in the first round. And it's killing us, I think. I really think that's what's wrong with the team right now. You're right. They need to do the right thing this draft CB LBand maybe another CB

12-29-2007, 05:46 AM	#10
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Exhibit A: Meachem; Exhibit B:David I will not argue the point that the saints have in the past two years been building the offense. first you sign Drew to a mega contract coming off a shoulder injury. You better have the line. Then Bush falls into your lap. You really have you hand forced now. So in two years we have turned over the starting and have one remaining player and the depth to lead the NFL in the fewest sacks allowed in both years. Now that coaching and FO work at its finest. But at what cost? The defense has not really been addressed. The team knows it. It is us the fans that that need a little insight. Thats why so many defensive players have been signed to one year deals over the past two years. They are stop gap measures, thats all. A temp fix till we get started on that side of the ball. Why sign players that you know do not fit your long term plans to long contracts? It just makes the rebuilding process that much longer. This is why I give Gibbs a pass. He is dealing with a situation he has really no control over. He knows the plans and is trying to the best he can with the players he has got. Many are nothing more than top notch backups around the NFL patched together as a starting unit. Now when we start getting those real starter types on the team you all will love the depth the coaches have added for now. I am telling you if you look at this from that angle we have all the bench players we need. One heck of an excellent group of second stringers. Depth will not be an issue. So forget about the second half of that building part. That part has been done. Heck they even got a couple of starters along the way. But do we now go all out and not finish the job on the offensive side of the ball? We are so close. One to 3 pieces are needed. Thats it. I say finish the job you have started. Will the draft be so one sided? No way. we are almost done.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins