Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!

BRSaintsFan · 04-18-2008, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by FrenzyFan

Good points, but I have to stand on the idea that I'm not comfortable giving up Rivers (assuming he would be our guy) and our second round pick in this draft, for Dorsey. The argument that you may not get an upgrade for this year applies to every singly draft pick, including the #1 over all. You can look at examples of this everywhere and at every position on the field. The NFL level game is nothing like the college game and therefore there are no guarantees.

It's all a bunch of what-ifs, and I recognize that. Still feel like our defense needs more urgent help at CB and at LB than at DT. I think Dorsey will be great, just not sure if his skills can compensate for all our weaknesses. It might be better idea to keep our two early picks and try to fill more holes.

I like a great DT but when I think of the keys to great defenses, I think of LBs. For every "Mean Joe" Green, you have Ham and Lambert. I couldn't remember the name of the NT during the dome patrol years (had to look it up - Jim Wilks), but I can tell you the names of all four LBs.

Just my two cents.

Fair points about the two picks. But my stance is that you have a surefire pick in Dorsey (I know some debate that, but I still hold firm). Again, Rivers is a great prospect (not as good as Willis last year), but Rivers weakness may be that he is more of a speed LB than a physical one and does not enjoy having to shed blockers to get to the ball. If we do not have anyone in the trenches that can free up Vilma and assuming Rivers, then you are in effect neutralizing those guys strengths and ability to get to the ball. I just do not believe that any of the DTs after Dorsey and Ellis can make that sort of an impact. You could argue that Rivers gives us an additional pass rush in a variety of blitz packages, but getting McCray allows us to potentially put together a pass rush line including McCray and Smith on the side and Grant and Dorsey on the inside. That would be a huge blessing for our secondary and you would still be able to get a speed LB in round 3 if perhaps Tavares Gooden falls, Highsmith (he plays faster than timed and is an excellent blitzer and pass rusher), Geno Hayes (known for making plays in the backfield), or Jordan Dizon (another strong blitzer). Outside of Gooden, I dont see the chances of any of those guys taking over at LB full time, but would be a good change of pace for Shanle on blitz situations. Im high on Hayes for that role because of his explosiveness and he is a solid coverage LB.

gandhi1007 · 04-18-2008, 10:17 PM

Well...if we want him, we're going to have to move up to #2 to get him. It seems that the Falcons owner has made 3 private flights to visit Dorsey in the last 2 weeks. Damn, I would hate to have to face this guy twice a year!

pakowitz · 04-18-2008, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by gandhi1007

Well...if we want him, we're going to have to move up to #2 to get him. It seems that the Falcons owner has made 3 private flights to visit Dorsey in the last 2 weeks. Damn, I would hate to have to face this guy twice a year!

if he ends up in ATL i think i will be sick

Euphoria · 04-19-2008, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by pakowitz

if he ends up in ATL i think i will be sick

I couldn't agree more... we gots to move up to get Dorsey.

beauchristopher · 04-19-2008, 01:11 AM

dorsey to the saints is a dream. it just fits perfectly.. but i don't think we should give up too much to move up.. altho all the free agent signing could allow us to do so.. i just like the value in rounds 2-5..

on rivers.. he is very good, but he wasn't even the best linebacker at usc..

Euphoria · 04-19-2008, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by beauchristopher

dorsey to the saints is a dream. it just fits perfectly.. but i don't think we should give up too much to move up.. altho all the free agent signing could allow us to do so.. i just like the value in rounds 2-5..

on rivers.. he is very good, but he wasn't even the best linebacker at usc..

Its a week draft class. The only reason to trade back is to get picks for next year. Move up and take the elite players in this draft or stock pile for next year.

BRSaintsFan · 04-19-2008, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

Its a week draft class. The only reason to trade back is to get picks for next year. Move up and take the elite players in this draft or stock pile for next year.

Agreed...I am not a big advocate of trading down for more picks unless you are trying to rebuild a team (Atlanta, Miami). What this team needs is not 10 picks and hoping that of those 10, half make the final cut, and 2 or 3 develop into decent starters. You need to target the guys that you want and be aggressive in going after them, not trade back and wait to see what falls to you.

Euphoria · 04-19-2008, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan

Agreed...I am not a big advocate of trading down for more picks unless you are trying to rebuild a team (Atlanta, Miami). What this team needs is not 10 picks and hoping that of those 10, half make the final cut, and 2 or 3 develop into decent starters. You need to target the guys that you want and be aggressive in going after them, not trade back and wait to see what falls to you.

Agreed, At this point depth is over-rated. We need some big time starters to come in. We don't have a lot of time to develop to many picks.

dasaints26 · 04-19-2008, 10:41 PM

In my opinion it would be a greater benefit to not move up if the Falcons want Dorsey with all the offensive talent they could choose from if they decide to draft a big body to clog up the defensive line who cares. After all the protection our line gave Brees last year and after reading our talent scouts say we will be better this year without our starting center I dont expect the Falcons will give us much to worry about.
If the Falcons want to pass on a franchise QB or skip on the game-changing talent of Mcfadden why in the heck would we want to trade up ahead of them and screw it up. Let them draft a 300 lb athelet to stuff the run as they play from behind all year. We atleast have a couple of positions that need to be upgraded the Falcons have 2 offense and defense.
Just to clarify no harm in suggesting we should trade up to get Dorsey because he is great and he played at LSU but lets not defend it by hoping to beat the Falcons to him. If I knew for sure the Falcons wanted him I would say no way to trading up let them get a new DT we can move the ball on anyone.

CantonLegend · 04-20-2008, 12:26 AM

The saints need to draft the highest player available at 10 and not risk losing their second round pick which may be the player we are looking for.....and/or next years first round pick which will almost certainly be more valuable than ne player in this year's draft!

04-18-2008, 05:31 PM	#91
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by FrenzyFan Good points, but I have to stand on the idea that I'm not comfortable giving up Rivers (assuming he would be our guy) and our second round pick in this draft, for Dorsey. The argument that you may not get an upgrade for this year applies to every singly draft pick, including the #1 over all. You can look at examples of this everywhere and at every position on the field. The NFL level game is nothing like the college game and therefore there are no guarantees. It's all a bunch of what-ifs, and I recognize that. Still feel like our defense needs more urgent help at CB and at LB than at DT. I think Dorsey will be great, just not sure if his skills can compensate for all our weaknesses. It might be better idea to keep our two early picks and try to fill more holes. I like a great DT but when I think of the keys to great defenses, I think of LBs. For every "Mean Joe" Green, you have Ham and Lambert. I couldn't remember the name of the NT during the dome patrol years (had to look it up - Jim Wilks), but I can tell you the names of all four LBs. Just my two cents. Fair points about the two picks. But my stance is that you have a surefire pick in Dorsey (I know some debate that, but I still hold firm). Again, Rivers is a great prospect (not as good as Willis last year), but Rivers weakness may be that he is more of a speed LB than a physical one and does not enjoy having to shed blockers to get to the ball. If we do not have anyone in the trenches that can free up Vilma and assuming Rivers, then you are in effect neutralizing those guys strengths and ability to get to the ball. I just do not believe that any of the DTs after Dorsey and Ellis can make that sort of an impact. You could argue that Rivers gives us an additional pass rush in a variety of blitz packages, but getting McCray allows us to potentially put together a pass rush line including McCray and Smith on the side and Grant and Dorsey on the inside. That would be a huge blessing for our secondary and you would still be able to get a speed LB in round 3 if perhaps Tavares Gooden falls, Highsmith (he plays faster than timed and is an excellent blitzer and pass rusher), Geno Hayes (known for making plays in the backfield), or Jordan Dizon (another strong blitzer). Outside of Gooden, I dont see the chances of any of those guys taking over at LB full time, but would be a good change of pace for Shanle on blitz situations. Im high on Hayes for that role because of his explosiveness and he is a solid coverage LB.

04-18-2008, 10:17 PM	#92
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Well...if we want him, we're going to have to move up to #2 to get him. It seems that the Falcons owner has made 3 private flights to visit Dorsey in the last 2 weeks. Damn, I would hate to have to face this guy twice a year!

04-18-2008, 11:55 PM	#93
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by gandhi1007 Well...if we want him, we're going to have to move up to #2 to get him. It seems that the Falcons owner has made 3 private flights to visit Dorsey in the last 2 weeks. Damn, I would hate to have to face this guy twice a year! if he ends up in ATL i think i will be sick

04-19-2008, 12:10 AM	#94
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by pakowitz if he ends up in ATL i think i will be sick I couldn't agree more... we gots to move up to get Dorsey.

04-19-2008, 01:11 AM	#95
beauchristopher 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 227	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! dorsey to the saints is a dream. it just fits perfectly.. but i don't think we should give up too much to move up.. altho all the free agent signing could allow us to do so.. i just like the value in rounds 2-5.. on rivers.. he is very good, but he wasn't even the best linebacker at usc..
	Last edited by beauchristopher; 04-19-2008 at 01:14 AM..

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04-19-2008, 12:47 PM	#96
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by beauchristopher dorsey to the saints is a dream. it just fits perfectly.. but i don't think we should give up too much to move up.. altho all the free agent signing could allow us to do so.. i just like the value in rounds 2-5.. on rivers.. he is very good, but he wasn't even the best linebacker at usc.. Its a week draft class. The only reason to trade back is to get picks for next year. Move up and take the elite players in this draft or stock pile for next year.

04-19-2008, 01:36 PM	#97
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by Euphoria Its a week draft class. The only reason to trade back is to get picks for next year. Move up and take the elite players in this draft or stock pile for next year. Agreed...I am not a big advocate of trading down for more picks unless you are trying to rebuild a team (Atlanta, Miami). What this team needs is not 10 picks and hoping that of those 10, half make the final cut, and 2 or 3 develop into decent starters. You need to target the guys that you want and be aggressive in going after them, not trade back and wait to see what falls to you.

04-19-2008, 04:42 PM	#98
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan Agreed...I am not a big advocate of trading down for more picks unless you are trying to rebuild a team (Atlanta, Miami). What this team needs is not 10 picks and hoping that of those 10, half make the final cut, and 2 or 3 develop into decent starters. You need to target the guys that you want and be aggressive in going after them, not trade back and wait to see what falls to you. Agreed, At this point depth is over-rated. We need some big time starters to come in. We don't have a lot of time to develop to many picks.

04-19-2008, 10:41 PM	#99
dasaints26 100th Post Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 167	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! In my opinion it would be a greater benefit to not move up if the Falcons want Dorsey with all the offensive talent they could choose from if they decide to draft a big body to clog up the defensive line who cares. After all the protection our line gave Brees last year and after reading our talent scouts say we will be better this year without our starting center I dont expect the Falcons will give us much to worry about. If the Falcons want to pass on a franchise QB or skip on the game-changing talent of Mcfadden why in the heck would we want to trade up ahead of them and screw it up. Let them draft a 300 lb athelet to stuff the run as they play from behind all year. We atleast have a couple of positions that need to be upgraded the Falcons have 2 offense and defense. Just to clarify no harm in suggesting we should trade up to get Dorsey because he is great and he played at LSU but lets not defend it by hoping to beat the Falcons to him. If I knew for sure the Falcons wanted him I would say no way to trading up let them get a new DT we can move the ball on anyone.
dasaints26 100th Post Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 167

04-20-2008, 12:26 AM	#100
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! The saints need to draft the highest player available at 10 and not risk losing their second round pick which may be the player we are looking for.....and/or next years first round pick which will almost certainly be more valuable than ne player in this year's draft!