Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!

hagan714 · 04-17-2008, 07:15 AM

OK here we go. Look by the time each team picks in the top 10 I guarantee we talked to each on about a trade. So lets talk the Rams.
The old chart has a trade value of 1st and 2nd this year and a 1st in another year. The new chart has a 1st and a 2nd. So lets go between the two. Your right about a player being the difference.

Team needs for the rams:
OT OLB CB DE OG QB WR

Defensive needs all hinge on the rumor that the Rams and Haz want to switch to a 34 defense this year.

DE - Grant - Last year we wanted a 1 and a 2 for the guy. Age wise the move makes sense. Grant and 10 for the #2 pick? He does not fit the bill for a 34. Smith does not do it either. But we are talking Haz here. Why weaken a position we are trying to strengthen?

CB - would they be that stupid to get a CB from us? Would we be that stupid to do it and loose our 2nd round pick.

OLB - sorry same shape as CB. We can ill afford to loose one.

Offense

QB - LOL

WR- Who would we trade? Henderson makes sense for both parties involved. well sort of. (I will try not to bash him here) he could be worth a third? nah a 4th is more like it. There goes 1 and 2 again. Meachem? maybe but that would have been a big investment sitting him for a year to get healthy only to trade him. Colston? He has taken a beaten the past 2 years. I don't think so.

OG - sorry we are not deep enough for that move and Evans, I think, is not on the block.

So that really leaves us with one position of depth that makes any sense:

OT - Now we are talking an area of depth the saints seem happy with. Stinch and Brown are the proven Vets. Stinch makes the most sense for us. Brown on the other hand would make the Trade a swap. He does have the rumor of bumb knees with him. But he is a pro bowler. Forget the rest. They are unproven low round draft choices and have not seen the field. Brown and swapping ones based on the old chart. Stinch and our second rounder based on the new chart. Bushrod is suppose to be the man there in 2009 at LT.

Brown makes the most sense. he carries the most value of any of our OT. We could hold onto our second rounder if the value chart is with the new trade chart, the one teams seem to be considering. we may get a lower pick in return also.

The rams then could pick the best OT/OG at ten and solve their OL problems within one round and look to the others to address the other side of the ball.

This is a big gamble and it all revolves around Bushrod and the remaining OTs on the team.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 04-17-2008, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by cgctobe

It's going to be Grant who is traded if anyone. I said a while back in a reply to a thread on here about Grant and Smith being worth all the money. I said Grant will be with another team real soon....also posted a thread on here that said it looks more and more like a d tackle first pick....not saying i told you so but we will see soon.I still believe Grant will be gone soon.

If you think that then you don't clearly understand NFL economics. If Grant is traded then all of the guaranteed money in his contract becomes due at the time of the trade. It'll wreck the Saints salary cap.

Grant will definitely be around until at least year 4 of the contract. He's not going anywhere.

BTW the cap hit is the same reason that Chad Johnson isn't going anywhere either. The Bengals would be better off letting Chad ride the pine for a year and not pay him than to trade him. They have already paid dude $26 million in bonuses in the last three years that would be a cap hit if they traded him. So he can whine until the cows come home, but next year he can play for the Bengals or sit at home. His choice.

There is a cost to getting big contract money up front. You have it. But you're stuck.

SFIAH

ScottyRo · 04-17-2008, 08:02 AM

This deal bugs me. I'm sure I am in the minority here, but I believe you can't pin the "can't miss" label on Dorsey. Thus, if he can miss - and I guarantee he can miss - then we're giving up too much in what is always a risky decision.

I wasn't all that impressed with him last year and think that maybe he peaked the year before.

hagan714 · 04-17-2008, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

IIf Grant is traded then all of the guaranteed money in his contract becomes due at the time of the trade. It'll wreck the Saints salary cap.

Grant will definitely be around until at least year 4 of the contract. He's not going anywhere.

There is a cost to getting big contract money up front. You have it. But you're stuck.

SFIAH

Thats right that why David is not going anywhere either.

pakowitz · 04-17-2008, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by jergensl

i'll play your game...lets say rivers is not there at #10...we will still get one of the top CBs or we can try to move down...if laws is not available in round 2 there will still be 2-3 DTs that will be able to come in and start or fill in the rotation..

ok.. ive said it before.. and i guess im going to have to say it again... any corner we would get at 10 probably isnt going to start.. being a rookie.. their is just too much to learn to just come in and start from day one.. corners generally take a couple years to develop and that would be the case with the top corners in this draft b/c they are all relatively the same area of their developments except for DRC who is probably a lil behind since playing at a smaller school..

there are only a handful of guys who are going to come in right away and have an immediate impact.. dorsey is one of them.. i think sed ellis is another who will start from day one... McFadden, the 2 Longs, Maybe Gholston.. but im really not sold on him.. Rivers i like but is moving up draftboards and will likely go to the Pats at 7, or Ravens at 8 if Ryan is gone...

anyway, my point is the time for us to win is right now.. we have a really good team and we dont have time to wait around and wait for a corner to develop.. Either of the DTs would come in and start right away.. they are both better then Hollis Thomas and Bryan Young... all the DTs you listed in the 2nd round.. i dont believe any of those guys would start right away and their impact would be minimal at best.. just another mediocre DT in our lineup... we really need a star in the middle.. a force.. none of those guys are that force..

i really dont see why everyone is so high on Laws.. he plays just like bryan young and being a rookie.. he wouldnt be out a guy who is more experienced and who he plays like....

BRSaintsFan · 04-17-2008, 09:03 AM

Those not "high" on Dorsey must not have watched many LSU games the past 2 seasons. Heres a little refresher: SI.com - NFL Draft 2008

pakowitz · 04-17-2008, 09:05 AM

Heres a wild idea, just throwing it out there...

what if we traded our 2nd rnd pick, 40th overall and will smith for the #2... then draft dorsey, then at 10 we can take Rivers or one of the corners... get us some more depth... maybe take Derrick Harvey..how would u guys feel about that??

BRSaintsFan · 04-17-2008, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by pakowitz

Heres a wild idea, just throwing it out there...

what if we traded our 2nd rnd pick, 40th overall and will smith for the #2... then draft dorsey, then at 10 we can take Rivers or one of the corners... get us some more depth... maybe take Derrick Harvey..how would u guys feel about that??

Youd hate to lose arguably your best defensive player. But if McCray can step in and regain his form and if Grant can step it up, then adding Dorsey and another defensive player like Rivers or a pass rusher who can at the least move Grant inside on passing downs and get a burst upfield, I would be okay with that. Funny that you mention replacing Smith with Harvey - NFL Draft Countdown - NFL Draft Player Comparisons

rjakapeanut · 04-17-2008, 10:36 AM

you guys really under rate Dorsey.

take my 1st/2nd/5th pick for this guy.

Euphoria · 04-17-2008, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by ScottyRo

This deal bugs me. I'm sure I am in the minority here, but I believe you can't pin the "can't miss" label on Dorsey. Thus, if he can miss - and I guarantee he can miss - then we're giving up too much in what is always a risky decision.

I wasn't all that impressed with him last year and think that maybe he peaked the year before.

NOT IMPRESSED WITH DORSEY??? Did you not see a game he played in. The guy single handedly took control of games not just last year but many years. He suffered through some injuries. He STAYED instead of coming out last year in order to win a National Tittle. ...and he did just that, lived up to his expectations. The guys is a winner in every sense of the word.

04-17-2008, 07:15 AM	#31
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! OK here we go. Look by the time each team picks in the top 10 I guarantee we talked to each on about a trade. So lets talk the Rams. The old chart has a trade value of 1st and 2nd this year and a 1st in another year. The new chart has a 1st and a 2nd. So lets go between the two. Your right about a player being the difference. Team needs for the rams: OT OLB CB DE OG QB WR Defensive needs all hinge on the rumor that the Rams and Haz want to switch to a 34 defense this year. DE - Grant - Last year we wanted a 1 and a 2 for the guy. Age wise the move makes sense. Grant and 10 for the #2 pick? He does not fit the bill for a 34. Smith does not do it either. But we are talking Haz here. Why weaken a position we are trying to strengthen? CB - would they be that stupid to get a CB from us? Would we be that stupid to do it and loose our 2nd round pick. OLB - sorry same shape as CB. We can ill afford to loose one. Offense QB - LOL WR- Who would we trade? Henderson makes sense for both parties involved. well sort of. (I will try not to bash him here) he could be worth a third? nah a 4th is more like it. There goes 1 and 2 again. Meachem? maybe but that would have been a big investment sitting him for a year to get healthy only to trade him. Colston? He has taken a beaten the past 2 years. I don't think so. OG - sorry we are not deep enough for that move and Evans, I think, is not on the block. So that really leaves us with one position of depth that makes any sense: OT - Now we are talking an area of depth the saints seem happy with. Stinch and Brown are the proven Vets. Stinch makes the most sense for us. Brown on the other hand would make the Trade a swap. He does have the rumor of bumb knees with him. But he is a pro bowler. Forget the rest. They are unproven low round draft choices and have not seen the field. Brown and swapping ones based on the old chart. Stinch and our second rounder based on the new chart. Bushrod is suppose to be the man there in 2009 at LT. Brown makes the most sense. he carries the most value of any of our OT. We could hold onto our second rounder if the value chart is with the new trade chart, the one teams seem to be considering. we may get a lower pick in return also. The rams then could pick the best OT/OG at ten and solve their OL problems within one round and look to the others to address the other side of the ball. This is a big gamble and it all revolves around Bushrod and the remaining OTs on the team.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

04-17-2008, 07:17 AM	#32
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by cgctobe It's going to be Grant who is traded if anyone. I said a while back in a reply to a thread on here about Grant and Smith being worth all the money. I said Grant will be with another team real soon....also posted a thread on here that said it looks more and more like a d tackle first pick....not saying i told you so but we will see soon.I still believe Grant will be gone soon. If you think that then you don't clearly understand NFL economics. If Grant is traded then all of the guaranteed money in his contract becomes due at the time of the trade. It'll wreck the Saints salary cap. Grant will definitely be around until at least year 4 of the contract. He's not going anywhere. BTW the cap hit is the same reason that Chad Johnson isn't going anywhere either. The Bengals would be better off letting Chad ride the pine for a year and not pay him than to trade him. They have already paid dude $26 million in bonuses in the last three years that would be a cap hit if they traded him. So he can whine until the cows come home, but next year he can play for the Bengals or sit at home. His choice. There is a cost to getting big contract money up front. You have it. But you're stuck. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

04-17-2008, 08:02 AM	#33
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! This deal bugs me. I'm sure I am in the minority here, but I believe you can't pin the "can't miss" label on Dorsey. Thus, if he can miss - and I guarantee he can miss - then we're giving up too much in what is always a risky decision. I wasn't all that impressed with him last year and think that maybe he peaked the year before.

04-17-2008, 08:16 AM	#34
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL IIf Grant is traded then all of the guaranteed money in his contract becomes due at the time of the trade. It'll wreck the Saints salary cap. Grant will definitely be around until at least year 4 of the contract. He's not going anywhere. There is a cost to getting big contract money up front. You have it. But you're stuck. SFIAH Thats right that why David is not going anywhere either.

04-17-2008, 08:20 AM	#35
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by jergensl i'll play your game...lets say rivers is not there at #10...we will still get one of the top CBs or we can try to move down...if laws is not available in round 2 there will still be 2-3 DTs that will be able to come in and start or fill in the rotation.. ok.. ive said it before.. and i guess im going to have to say it again... any corner we would get at 10 probably isnt going to start.. being a rookie.. their is just too much to learn to just come in and start from day one.. corners generally take a couple years to develop and that would be the case with the top corners in this draft b/c they are all relatively the same area of their developments except for DRC who is probably a lil behind since playing at a smaller school.. there are only a handful of guys who are going to come in right away and have an immediate impact.. dorsey is one of them.. i think sed ellis is another who will start from day one... McFadden, the 2 Longs, Maybe Gholston.. but im really not sold on him.. Rivers i like but is moving up draftboards and will likely go to the Pats at 7, or Ravens at 8 if Ryan is gone... anyway, my point is the time for us to win is right now.. we have a really good team and we dont have time to wait around and wait for a corner to develop.. Either of the DTs would come in and start right away.. they are both better then Hollis Thomas and Bryan Young... all the DTs you listed in the 2nd round.. i dont believe any of those guys would start right away and their impact would be minimal at best.. just another mediocre DT in our lineup... we really need a star in the middle.. a force.. none of those guys are that force.. i really dont see why everyone is so high on Laws.. he plays just like bryan young and being a rookie.. he wouldnt be out a guy who is more experienced and who he plays like....
	I Live In Beastmode!

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04-17-2008, 09:03 AM	#36
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Those not "high" on Dorsey must not have watched many LSU games the past 2 seasons. Heres a little refresher: SI.com - NFL Draft 2008

04-17-2008, 09:05 AM	#37
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Heres a wild idea, just throwing it out there... what if we traded our 2nd rnd pick, 40th overall and will smith for the #2... then draft dorsey, then at 10 we can take Rivers or one of the corners... get us some more depth... maybe take Derrick Harvey..how would u guys feel about that??

04-17-2008, 09:14 AM	#38
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by pakowitz Heres a wild idea, just throwing it out there... what if we traded our 2nd rnd pick, 40th overall and will smith for the #2... then draft dorsey, then at 10 we can take Rivers or one of the corners... get us some more depth... maybe take Derrick Harvey..how would u guys feel about that?? Youd hate to lose arguably your best defensive player. But if McCray can step in and regain his form and if Grant can step it up, then adding Dorsey and another defensive player like Rivers or a pass rusher who can at the least move Grant inside on passing downs and get a burst upfield, I would be okay with that. Funny that you mention replacing Smith with Harvey - NFL Draft Countdown - NFL Draft Player Comparisons

04-17-2008, 10:36 AM	#39
rjakapeanut 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 204	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! you guys really under rate Dorsey. take my 1st/2nd/5th pick for this guy.
rjakapeanut 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 204

04-17-2008, 11:27 AM	#40
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by ScottyRo This deal bugs me. I'm sure I am in the minority here, but I believe you can't pin the "can't miss" label on Dorsey. Thus, if he can miss - and I guarantee he can miss - then we're giving up too much in what is always a risky decision. I wasn't all that impressed with him last year and think that maybe he peaked the year before. NOT IMPRESSED WITH DORSEY??? Did you not see a game he played in. The guy single handedly took control of games not just last year but many years. He suffered through some injuries. He STAYED instead of coming out last year in order to win a National Tittle. ...and he did just that, lived up to his expectations. The guys is a winner in every sense of the word.