Saints Offer J. Brown for #2 update on pg 19!!!

jergensl · 04-17-2008, 05:19 AM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

I think the single most - biggest impact where you will see improvement on that D is getting a player like Dorsey. There are no sure bets that Laws will be available with our second pick in the draft. Heck we can't be sure Rivers will be there at 10 either at this point. Thats 2 gambles... I'll go up and get Dorsey at 2. I think the Saints know this and if Dorsey is the guy to target then you have to get him at 2 because that is perhaps the first 'real' chance he could go in the draft.
While I think Rivers is a good pick at 10 for us and Laws may end up being good in the NFL. You can't go on just the numbers alone. I don't see them improving our D as much as Dorsey can. Don't go by just the numbers of all these players, look at the decision making of these players. Dorsey choosing go to LSU - a National Championship team playing in the best NCAA confrence. He decides to play another year to win a National Championship (again). The odds of that happening and in the SEC is crazy... the fact he made a decision like that and performed and lived up to his expectations says a lot about the guy. Dorsey is a gamer played in the biggest games and some say he single handedly won a lot of those big games.

-Sorry I want a winner!
GO GET DORSEY.

i'll play your game...lets say rivers is not there at #10...we will still get one of the top CBs or we can try to move down...if laws is not available in round 2 there will still be 2-3 DTs that will be able to come in and start or fill in the rotation.

so, since dorsey was lucky enough to choose the right school to play for, he is a better player? i could give you a huge list of guys from winning college programs that were crap in the nfl...even guys who were the main reason their teams won national championships.

again...your argument just doesn't hold water.

pakowitz · 04-17-2008, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by jergensl

i'll play your game...lets say rivers is not there at #10...we will still get one of the top CBs or we can try to move down...if laws is not available in round 2 there will still be 2-3 DTs that will be able to come in and start or fill in the rotation..

ok.. ive said it before.. and i guess im going to have to say it again... any corner we would get at 10 probably isnt going to start.. being a rookie.. their is just too much to learn to just come in and start from day one.. corners generally take a couple years to develop and that would be the case with the top corners in this draft b/c they are all relatively the same area of their developments except for DRC who is probably a lil behind since playing at a smaller school..

there are only a handful of guys who are going to come in right away and have an immediate impact.. dorsey is one of them.. i think sed ellis is another who will start from day one... McFadden, the 2 Longs, Maybe Gholston.. but im really not sold on him.. Rivers i like but is moving up draftboards and will likely go to the Pats at 7, or Ravens at 8 if Ryan is gone...

anyway, my point is the time for us to win is right now.. we have a really good team and we dont have time to wait around and wait for a corner to develop.. Either of the DTs would come in and start right away.. they are both better then Hollis Thomas and Bryan Young... all the DTs you listed in the 2nd round.. i dont believe any of those guys would start right away and their impact would be minimal at best.. just another mediocre DT in our lineup... we really need a star in the middle.. a force.. none of those guys are that force..

i really dont see why everyone is so high on Laws.. he plays just like bryan young and being a rookie.. he wouldnt be out a guy who is more experienced and who he plays like....

lsutigerfan · 04-17-2008, 12:39 AM

Wow if we can somehow get Dorsey we are on our way!!!!

hagan714 · 04-17-2008, 07:15 AM

OK here we go. Look by the time each team picks in the top 10 I guarantee we talked to each on about a trade. So lets talk the Rams.
The old chart has a trade value of 1st and 2nd this year and a 1st in another year. The new chart has a 1st and a 2nd. So lets go between the two. Your right about a player being the difference.

Team needs for the rams:
OT OLB CB DE OG QB WR

Defensive needs all hinge on the rumor that the Rams and Haz want to switch to a 34 defense this year.

DE - Grant - Last year we wanted a 1 and a 2 for the guy. Age wise the move makes sense. Grant and 10 for the #2 pick? He does not fit the bill for a 34. Smith does not do it either. But we are talking Haz here. Why weaken a position we are trying to strengthen?

CB - would they be that stupid to get a CB from us? Would we be that stupid to do it and loose our 2nd round pick.

OLB - sorry same shape as CB. We can ill afford to loose one.

Offense

QB - LOL

WR- Who would we trade? Henderson makes sense for both parties involved. well sort of. (I will try not to bash him here) he could be worth a third? nah a 4th is more like it. There goes 1 and 2 again. Meachem? maybe but that would have been a big investment sitting him for a year to get healthy only to trade him. Colston? He has taken a beaten the past 2 years. I don't think so.

OG - sorry we are not deep enough for that move and Evans, I think, is not on the block.

So that really leaves us with one position of depth that makes any sense:

OT - Now we are talking an area of depth the saints seem happy with. Stinch and Brown are the proven Vets. Stinch makes the most sense for us. Brown on the other hand would make the Trade a swap. He does have the rumor of bumb knees with him. But he is a pro bowler. Forget the rest. They are unproven low round draft choices and have not seen the field. Brown and swapping ones based on the old chart. Stinch and our second rounder based on the new chart. Bushrod is suppose to be the man there in 2009 at LT.

Brown makes the most sense. he carries the most value of any of our OT. We could hold onto our second rounder if the value chart is with the new trade chart, the one teams seem to be considering. we may get a lower pick in return also.

The rams then could pick the best OT/OG at ten and solve their OL problems within one round and look to the others to address the other side of the ball.

This is a big gamble and it all revolves around Bushrod and the remaining OTs on the team.

ScottyRo · 04-17-2008, 08:02 AM

This deal bugs me. I'm sure I am in the minority here, but I believe you can't pin the "can't miss" label on Dorsey. Thus, if he can miss - and I guarantee he can miss - then we're giving up too much in what is always a risky decision.

I wasn't all that impressed with him last year and think that maybe he peaked the year before.

Euphoria · 04-17-2008, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by ScottyRo

This deal bugs me. I'm sure I am in the minority here, but I believe you can't pin the "can't miss" label on Dorsey. Thus, if he can miss - and I guarantee he can miss - then we're giving up too much in what is always a risky decision.

I wasn't all that impressed with him last year and think that maybe he peaked the year before.

NOT IMPRESSED WITH DORSEY??? Did you not see a game he played in. The guy single handedly took control of games not just last year but many years. He suffered through some injuries. He STAYED instead of coming out last year in order to win a National Tittle. ...and he did just that, lived up to his expectations. The guys is a winner in every sense of the word.

ScottyRo · 04-17-2008, 12:42 PM

Actually, I watched quite a few LSU games last year and focused a lot of attention on him because of all of the hype the media made about him. I did not say anything about previous years, but last year I did not see him as an NFL sure thing. That doesn't mean he won't turn out to be the greatest ever. I just mean he's as risky as any of the top picks and any of those could be flops.

Sure, he had lots of good moments, but he also had long stretches of doing nothing. Those were periods that concerned me and left me with questions about him: Does he take plays off? Is he overwhelmed by college linemen double teaming him? Is he injury prone? I think these are valid questions about him as a football player after watching the games last year and should cause every Saints fan concern when we hear a rumor that the team might move from 10 to 2 to get him.

papz · 04-17-2008, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by ScottyRo

Actually, I watched quite a few LSU games last year and focused a lot of attention on him because of all of the hype the media made about him. I did not say anything about previous years, but last year I did not see him as an NFL sure thing. That doesn't mean he won't turn out to be the greatest ever. I just mean he's as risky as any of the top picks and any of those could be flops.

I did the same thing and I agree with what you're saying. The only thing I don't agree with is not seeing him as a sure thing. But that depends on your perception of what a sure thing. One thing I'm feel strongly about is that he won't be a flop... not even close. He might not be as good as his hype is concerned, but he'll be a solid pro nonetheless. And being a top 5 pick, the expectations are extremely high to start off with. I'd love to have him for the right price.

lsutigerfan · 04-17-2008, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by ScottyRo

Actually, I watched quite a few LSU games last year and focused a lot of attention on him because of all of the hype the media made about him. I did not say anything about previous years, but last year I did not see him as an NFL sure thing. That doesn't mean he won't turn out to be the greatest ever. I just mean he's as risky as any of the top picks and any of those could be flops.

Sure, he had lots of good moments, but he also had long stretches of doing nothing. Those were periods that concerned me and left me with questions about him: Does he take plays off? Is he overwhelmed by college linemen double teaming him? Is he injury prone? I think these are valid questions about him as a football player after watching the games last year and should cause every Saints fan concern when we hear a rumor that the team might move from 10 to 2 to get him.

You do know he played most of the year injured do to a cheap shot he took in the Auburn game and instead of sitting out the rest of the season which would have been understandable he played throuygh it and then when he got healthy for the championship game against Ohio state he was absolutely dominent. check out some game film on him when he's healthy and then get back to us.

gandhi1007 · 04-17-2008, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by ScottyRo

Actually, I watched quite a few LSU games last year and focused a lot of attention on him because of all of the hype the media made about him. I did not say anything about previous years, but last year I did not see him as an NFL sure thing. That doesn't mean he won't turn out to be the greatest ever. I just mean he's as risky as any of the top picks and any of those could be flops.

Sure, he had lots of good moments, but he also had long stretches of doing nothing. Those were periods that concerned me and left me with questions about him: Does he take plays off? Is he overwhelmed by college linemen double teaming him? Is he injury prone? I think these are valid questions about him as a football player after watching the games last year and should cause every Saints fan concern when we hear a rumor that the team might move from 10 to 2 to get him.

Can you say DOUBLE TEAM? Dorsey was double teamed, chop blocked, & playing through injuries in every single game last year. Now...take that into account & the fact that all this was happening in the SEC & you still don't think he's a sure thing? Huh? We are talking about a guy who has commanded double teams & still dominated in the nation's toughest football conference year in & year out & you still have questions? Unbelievable! What does a guy have to do to earn respect? All this, but you like Trevor "Shows up When?" Laws in the second? I'd definately give it up to move up & snag Dorsey. He's one of 5 players in this year's draft that are going to be for sure Pro Bowlers for years to come.

04-17-2008, 08:20 AM	#2
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by jergensl i'll play your game...lets say rivers is not there at #10...we will still get one of the top CBs or we can try to move down...if laws is not available in round 2 there will still be 2-3 DTs that will be able to come in and start or fill in the rotation.. ok.. ive said it before.. and i guess im going to have to say it again... any corner we would get at 10 probably isnt going to start.. being a rookie.. their is just too much to learn to just come in and start from day one.. corners generally take a couple years to develop and that would be the case with the top corners in this draft b/c they are all relatively the same area of their developments except for DRC who is probably a lil behind since playing at a smaller school.. there are only a handful of guys who are going to come in right away and have an immediate impact.. dorsey is one of them.. i think sed ellis is another who will start from day one... McFadden, the 2 Longs, Maybe Gholston.. but im really not sold on him.. Rivers i like but is moving up draftboards and will likely go to the Pats at 7, or Ravens at 8 if Ryan is gone... anyway, my point is the time for us to win is right now.. we have a really good team and we dont have time to wait around and wait for a corner to develop.. Either of the DTs would come in and start right away.. they are both better then Hollis Thomas and Bryan Young... all the DTs you listed in the 2nd round.. i dont believe any of those guys would start right away and their impact would be minimal at best.. just another mediocre DT in our lineup... we really need a star in the middle.. a force.. none of those guys are that force.. i really dont see why everyone is so high on Laws.. he plays just like bryan young and being a rookie.. he wouldnt be out a guy who is more experienced and who he plays like....
	I Live In Beastmode!

04-17-2008, 12:39 AM	#3
lsutigerfan 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: born And raised in NOLA, now live in Los Angeles Posts: 811	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Wow if we can somehow get Dorsey we are on our way!!!!

04-17-2008, 07:15 AM	#4
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! OK here we go. Look by the time each team picks in the top 10 I guarantee we talked to each on about a trade. So lets talk the Rams. The old chart has a trade value of 1st and 2nd this year and a 1st in another year. The new chart has a 1st and a 2nd. So lets go between the two. Your right about a player being the difference. Team needs for the rams: OT OLB CB DE OG QB WR Defensive needs all hinge on the rumor that the Rams and Haz want to switch to a 34 defense this year. DE - Grant - Last year we wanted a 1 and a 2 for the guy. Age wise the move makes sense. Grant and 10 for the #2 pick? He does not fit the bill for a 34. Smith does not do it either. But we are talking Haz here. Why weaken a position we are trying to strengthen? CB - would they be that stupid to get a CB from us? Would we be that stupid to do it and loose our 2nd round pick. OLB - sorry same shape as CB. We can ill afford to loose one. Offense QB - LOL WR- Who would we trade? Henderson makes sense for both parties involved. well sort of. (I will try not to bash him here) he could be worth a third? nah a 4th is more like it. There goes 1 and 2 again. Meachem? maybe but that would have been a big investment sitting him for a year to get healthy only to trade him. Colston? He has taken a beaten the past 2 years. I don't think so. OG - sorry we are not deep enough for that move and Evans, I think, is not on the block. So that really leaves us with one position of depth that makes any sense: OT - Now we are talking an area of depth the saints seem happy with. Stinch and Brown are the proven Vets. Stinch makes the most sense for us. Brown on the other hand would make the Trade a swap. He does have the rumor of bumb knees with him. But he is a pro bowler. Forget the rest. They are unproven low round draft choices and have not seen the field. Brown and swapping ones based on the old chart. Stinch and our second rounder based on the new chart. Bushrod is suppose to be the man there in 2009 at LT. Brown makes the most sense. he carries the most value of any of our OT. We could hold onto our second rounder if the value chart is with the new trade chart, the one teams seem to be considering. we may get a lower pick in return also. The rams then could pick the best OT/OG at ten and solve their OL problems within one round and look to the others to address the other side of the ball. This is a big gamble and it all revolves around Bushrod and the remaining OTs on the team.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

04-17-2008, 08:02 AM	#5
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! This deal bugs me. I'm sure I am in the minority here, but I believe you can't pin the "can't miss" label on Dorsey. Thus, if he can miss - and I guarantee he can miss - then we're giving up too much in what is always a risky decision. I wasn't all that impressed with him last year and think that maybe he peaked the year before.

04-17-2008, 11:27 AM	#6
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by ScottyRo This deal bugs me. I'm sure I am in the minority here, but I believe you can't pin the "can't miss" label on Dorsey. Thus, if he can miss - and I guarantee he can miss - then we're giving up too much in what is always a risky decision. I wasn't all that impressed with him last year and think that maybe he peaked the year before. NOT IMPRESSED WITH DORSEY??? Did you not see a game he played in. The guy single handedly took control of games not just last year but many years. He suffered through some injuries. He STAYED instead of coming out last year in order to win a National Tittle. ...and he did just that, lived up to his expectations. The guys is a winner in every sense of the word.

04-17-2008, 05:19 AM	#1
jergensl 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Belleview, FL Posts: 526	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by Euphoria I think the single most - biggest impact where you will see improvement on that D is getting a player like Dorsey. There are no sure bets that Laws will be available with our second pick in the draft. Heck we can't be sure Rivers will be there at 10 either at this point. Thats 2 gambles... I'll go up and get Dorsey at 2. I think the Saints know this and if Dorsey is the guy to target then you have to get him at 2 because that is perhaps the first 'real' chance he could go in the draft. While I think Rivers is a good pick at 10 for us and Laws may end up being good in the NFL. You can't go on just the numbers alone. I don't see them improving our D as much as Dorsey can. Don't go by just the numbers of all these players, look at the decision making of these players. Dorsey choosing go to LSU - a National Championship team playing in the best NCAA confrence. He decides to play another year to win a National Championship (again). The odds of that happening and in the SEC is crazy... the fact he made a decision like that and performed and lived up to his expectations says a lot about the guy. Dorsey is a gamer played in the biggest games and some say he single handedly won a lot of those big games. -Sorry I want a winner! GO GET DORSEY. i'll play your game...lets say rivers is not there at #10...we will still get one of the top CBs or we can try to move down...if laws is not available in round 2 there will still be 2-3 DTs that will be able to come in and start or fill in the rotation. so, since dorsey was lucky enough to choose the right school to play for, he is a better player? i could give you a huge list of guys from winning college programs that were crap in the nfl...even guys who were the main reason their teams won national championships. again...your argument just doesn't hold water.

04-17-2008, 12:42 PM	#7
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Actually, I watched quite a few LSU games last year and focused a lot of attention on him because of all of the hype the media made about him. I did not say anything about previous years, but last year I did not see him as an NFL sure thing. That doesn't mean he won't turn out to be the greatest ever. I just mean he's as risky as any of the top picks and any of those could be flops. Sure, he had lots of good moments, but he also had long stretches of doing nothing. Those were periods that concerned me and left me with questions about him: Does he take plays off? Is he overwhelmed by college linemen double teaming him? Is he injury prone? I think these are valid questions about him as a football player after watching the games last year and should cause every Saints fan concern when we hear a rumor that the team might move from 10 to 2 to get him.

04-17-2008, 12:52 PM	#8
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,793	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by ScottyRo Actually, I watched quite a few LSU games last year and focused a lot of attention on him because of all of the hype the media made about him. I did not say anything about previous years, but last year I did not see him as an NFL sure thing. That doesn't mean he won't turn out to be the greatest ever. I just mean he's as risky as any of the top picks and any of those could be flops. I did the same thing and I agree with what you're saying. The only thing I don't agree with is not seeing him as a sure thing. But that depends on your perception of what a sure thing. One thing I'm feel strongly about is that he won't be a flop... not even close. He might not be as good as his hype is concerned, but he'll be a solid pro nonetheless. And being a top 5 pick, the expectations are extremely high to start off with. I'd love to have him for the right price.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way. Last edited by papz; 04-17-2008 at 01:01 PM..

04-17-2008, 01:05 PM	#9
lsutigerfan 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: born And raised in NOLA, now live in Los Angeles Posts: 811	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by ScottyRo Actually, I watched quite a few LSU games last year and focused a lot of attention on him because of all of the hype the media made about him. I did not say anything about previous years, but last year I did not see him as an NFL sure thing. That doesn't mean he won't turn out to be the greatest ever. I just mean he's as risky as any of the top picks and any of those could be flops. Sure, he had lots of good moments, but he also had long stretches of doing nothing. Those were periods that concerned me and left me with questions about him: Does he take plays off? Is he overwhelmed by college linemen double teaming him? Is he injury prone? I think these are valid questions about him as a football player after watching the games last year and should cause every Saints fan concern when we hear a rumor that the team might move from 10 to 2 to get him. You do know he played most of the year injured do to a cheap shot he took in the Auburn game and instead of sitting out the rest of the season which would have been understandable he played throuygh it and then when he got healthy for the championship game against Ohio state he was absolutely dominent. check out some game film on him when he's healthy and then get back to us.

04-17-2008, 01:07 PM	#10
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	Re: Saints Trying To Move Up To #2!!! Originally Posted by ScottyRo Actually, I watched quite a few LSU games last year and focused a lot of attention on him because of all of the hype the media made about him. I did not say anything about previous years, but last year I did not see him as an NFL sure thing. That doesn't mean he won't turn out to be the greatest ever. I just mean he's as risky as any of the top picks and any of those could be flops. Sure, he had lots of good moments, but he also had long stretches of doing nothing. Those were periods that concerned me and left me with questions about him: Does he take plays off? Is he overwhelmed by college linemen double teaming him? Is he injury prone? I think these are valid questions about him as a football player after watching the games last year and should cause every Saints fan concern when we hear a rumor that the team might move from 10 to 2 to get him. Can you say DOUBLE TEAM? Dorsey was double teamed, chop blocked, & playing through injuries in every single game last year. Now...take that into account & the fact that all this was happening in the SEC & you still don't think he's a sure thing? Huh? We are talking about a guy who has commanded double teams & still dominated in the nation's toughest football conference year in & year out & you still have questions? Unbelievable! What does a guy have to do to earn respect? All this, but you like Trevor "Shows up When?" Laws in the second? I'd definately give it up to move up & snag Dorsey. He's one of 5 players in this year's draft that are going to be for sure Pro Bowlers for years to come.
	http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...gs/12-3006.jpg ______________________________ KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE! -G.I. Joe