Saints' Staff are Gamblers

504Highlander · 05-22-2008, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by JKool

Well, like the ocean waves, we've passed over an interesting point...

504, you raised an interesting point in brining up the off season moves over our division rivals. I haven't paid too close attention to them, but I was underwhelmed by their performances in the draft. Are there key additions that have you especially nervous, or is it just a general malaise?

Not really malaise. More like respect.

When you get a mo, take a look at the new additions to, Panthers, Eagles and Bears.

I am thinking 'degree of difficulty' when it is time to go up against these teams.

Panthers twice and Bears once. We will only see the Eagles again if we make it to Post-season.

The Panthers are bigger at OL and now have a serious backfield. Stewart and Williams. They want to emphasize the running game, but they now have, Muhammad, Hackett, Smith and Jarrett at WR, along with new TE Barnidge.

They look much more balanced and therefore harder to defend.

On D they are stacked at LB, solid at the safety position and have added more bodies at DL.

Doctor Saint · 05-22-2008, 11:56 AM

504 makes good points about our competition this year. We have an easier schedule however(according to last year's records). simply adding one or two key players does not make those teams superbowl contenders tho. that was my argument for bringing in shockey. the eagles added asante samuel whom, IMO, was the only key offseason move for them. with samuel and lito on the corners they will have a dominant pass defense. however, the bears and panthers are up in the air. we normally dont beat the bears and if we lose to them(i penciled us in for a loss there) it wont hurt our chances for a superbowl. the panthers usually split the series with us so im not worried about that either. whether we split the series or not, they will not sweep us simply because our offense is so dominating and their defense will not match up

JKool · 05-22-2008, 12:10 PM

Dr, that is a nice take.

Of course, any team might find some diamonds in the rough or happen on a sneaky new blitz package... this is why teams aren't just what they are on paper. Maybe that is the key point to remember?

I think we look better on paper (except at Center, Safety, TE, and Running Back) than we did last year, and in at least one of those cases we didn't really need any improvement. I hope this translates into being better than we were last year. I, for one, am optimistic..

saintsrule · 05-22-2008, 02:58 PM

I hope the injuried players can play.

Memnoch_TP · 05-22-2008, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

HAHA see JKool.....football is an ocean

So does that make the owners Kraken? Cause that kind of makes sense.

504Highlander · 05-22-2008, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by JKool

Dr, that is a nice take.

Of course, any team might find some diamonds in the rough or happen on a sneaky new blitz package... this is why teams aren't just what they are on paper. Maybe that is the key point to remember?

I think we look better on paper (except at Center, Safety, TE, and Running Back) than we did last year, and in at least one of those cases we didn't really need any improvement. I hope this translates into being better than we were last year. I, for one, am optimistic..

Optimism, the one consistent thing about the Saints' fans. Got to love it.

Hey, I heard them talking on the radio to Sean Payton about co-owning a racehorse and how he enjoys a little wager. If I remember correctly, the other owners were other members of the FO.

I guess the Saints' Staff really are gamblers !

The ponies, the draft, injured players, whatever. Let's make a bet.

Originally Posted by papz

So you're saying you are and were against us acquiring Vilma from the Jets?

That's the only move that we made this offseason that required giving up draft picks for a previously injured star linebacker. Dan Morgan was a low risk high reward player that costed us absolutely nothing.

The thing is, we just have no idea. That is what I am getting at. If we are upgrading a key position, let's start with a talented and healthy prospect or player, then go from there. If we are going for depth, then we can roll the dice and deal with the outcome. But making plans based on a 'best case' scenario and not even considering the 'worst case' scenario, is a bit dumb.
Like gambling is dumb, if you don't really have very much money.

Originally Posted by Doctor Saint

504 makes good points about our competition this year. We have an easier schedule however(according to last year's records). simply adding one or two key players does not make those teams superbowl contenders tho. that was my argument for bringing in shockey. the eagles added asante samuel whom, IMO, was the only key offseason move for them. with samuel and lito on the corners they will have a dominant pass defense. however, the bears and panthers are up in the air. we normally dont beat the bears and if we lose to them(i penciled us in for a loss there) it wont hurt our chances for a superbowl. the panthers usually split the series with us so im not worried about that either. whether we split the series or not, they will not sweep us simply because our offense is so dominating and their defense will not match up

The Eagles quietly made some smart and interesting moves this year.

They signed Dan Klecko to be their fullback. His previous starting position was D Line, although the Colts also used him as a TE on short yardage situations.

They also signed a guy named Kris Wilson, who was behind Gonzales at TE and HB and who also had lined up in the backfield.

Plus they signed DE Chris Clemons (Raiders), LB Rocky Boiman(Colts), RB Lorenzo Booker (Fins)

In the Draft they got DT Trevor Laws, WR Desean Jackson, FS Quintin Demps,
CB Jack Ikegwuonu

They definitely added more than one player in 08.

hagan714 · 05-23-2008, 07:05 AM

Big Time Gamblers? - Black and Gold Forums

I started a reply and it went on for great lengths so I felt it better posted in the Blog section of the site.

papz · 05-23-2008, 07:14 AM

The thing is, we just have no idea. That is what I am getting at. If we are upgrading a key position, let's start with a talented and healthy prospect or player, then go from there. If we are going for depth, then we can roll the dice and deal with the outcome. But making plans based on a 'best case' scenario and not even considering the 'worst case' scenario, is a bit dumb.
Like gambling is dumb, if you don't really have very much money.

You make it sound like we're putting all our eggs into one basket. We've only made two big acquistions on injured players in the past, Brees and Vilma. Only Brees was a big investment and risk, not Vilma. He was had for a nickel on a dollar. If he doesn't work out, we didn't lose much. And if he does, what a steal he would be. I'd rather have Vilma than that 4th round pick we gave up any day of the week... as I'm sure most, and probably you, would agree (which makes this thread pointless).

Making big risk investments in highly talented injured players has not been a trend. It's only happened once. I'd also like to point out that if we wanted to gamble, we had and have plenty of cap room to do whatever as we please.

504Highlander · 05-23-2008, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by papz

You make it sound like we're putting all our eggs into one basket. We've only made two big acquistions on injured players in the past, Brees and Vilma. Only Brees was a big investment and risk, not Vilma. He was had for a nickel on a dollar. If he doesn't work out, we didn't lose much. And if he does, what a steal he would be. I'd rather have Vilma than that 4th round pick we gave up any day of the week... as I'm sure most, and probably you, would agree (which makes this thread pointless).

Making big risk investments in highly talented injured players has not been a trend. It's only happened once. I'd also like to point out that if we wanted to gamble, we had and have plenty of cap room to do whatever as we please.

Saints needed to add speed and more talent at LB. They added Vilma and Morgan, both seriously injured.

Morgan has retired and on WWL radio yesterday, Vilma was discussing not be able to participate fully as he is still rehabbing.

Last year they brought in LB Simmons who was coming off a serious injury and was never really productive. He was cut too.

This year the Saints will likely have to start without McAllister and therefore begin a tough season at a competitive disadvantage.

We are not discussing a player, we are looking at a FO philosophy, that goes thinks 'bargain hunting' is a legit way to improve the team.

foreverfan · 05-23-2008, 11:56 AM

Ocean? I take great offense to football being compared to an ocean.

Have any of you ever been left at sea? You get sunburned, thirsty, tired and eventually eaten by sharks. How does this compare to football?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

05-22-2008, 11:35 AM	#31
504Highlander Registered Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 47 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers Originally Posted by JKool Well, like the ocean waves, we've passed over an interesting point... 504, you raised an interesting point in brining up the off season moves over our division rivals. I haven't paid too close attention to them, but I was underwhelmed by their performances in the draft. Are there key additions that have you especially nervous, or is it just a general malaise? Not really malaise. More like respect. When you get a mo, take a look at the new additions to, Panthers, Eagles and Bears. I am thinking 'degree of difficulty' when it is time to go up against these teams. Panthers twice and Bears once. We will only see the Eagles again if we make it to Post-season. The Panthers are bigger at OL and now have a serious backfield. Stewart and Williams. They want to emphasize the running game, but they now have, Muhammad, Hackett, Smith and Jarrett at WR, along with new TE Barnidge. They look much more balanced and therefore harder to defend. On D they are stacked at LB, solid at the safety position and have added more bodies at DL.
	If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

05-22-2008, 11:56 AM	#32
Doctor Saint Rookie Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 11	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers 504 makes good points about our competition this year. We have an easier schedule however(according to last year's records). simply adding one or two key players does not make those teams superbowl contenders tho. that was my argument for bringing in shockey. the eagles added asante samuel whom, IMO, was the only key offseason move for them. with samuel and lito on the corners they will have a dominant pass defense. however, the bears and panthers are up in the air. we normally dont beat the bears and if we lose to them(i penciled us in for a loss there) it wont hurt our chances for a superbowl. the panthers usually split the series with us so im not worried about that either. whether we split the series or not, they will not sweep us simply because our offense is so dominating and their defense will not match up
Doctor Saint Rookie Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 11	[CENTER][B][U]JUST WHAT THE DOCTOR ORDERED[/U][/B] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][/center]

05-22-2008, 12:10 PM	#33
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers Dr, that is a nice take. Of course, any team might find some diamonds in the rough or happen on a sneaky new blitz package... this is why teams aren't just what they are on paper. Maybe that is the key point to remember? I think we look better on paper (except at Center, Safety, TE, and Running Back) than we did last year, and in at least one of those cases we didn't really need any improvement. I hope this translates into being better than we were last year. I, for one, am optimistic..

05-22-2008, 02:58 PM	#34
saintsrule 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 657	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers I hope the injuried players can play.
saintsrule 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 657

05-22-2008, 06:52 PM	#35
Memnoch_TP Logic Troll Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern Louisiana Posts: 565	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers Originally Posted by CantonLegend HAHA see JKool.....football is an ocean So does that make the owners Kraken? Cause that kind of makes sense.

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05-22-2008, 11:33 PM	#36
504Highlander Registered Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 47 Blog Entries: 1	Originally Posted by JKool Dr, that is a nice take. Of course, any team might find some diamonds in the rough or happen on a sneaky new blitz package... this is why teams aren't just what they are on paper. Maybe that is the key point to remember? I think we look better on paper (except at Center, Safety, TE, and Running Back) than we did last year, and in at least one of those cases we didn't really need any improvement. I hope this translates into being better than we were last year. I, for one, am optimistic.. Optimism, the one consistent thing about the Saints' fans. Got to love it. Hey, I heard them talking on the radio to Sean Payton about co-owning a racehorse and how he enjoys a little wager. If I remember correctly, the other owners were other members of the FO. I guess the Saints' Staff really are gamblers ! The ponies, the draft, injured players, whatever. Let's make a bet. Originally Posted by papz So you're saying you are and were against us acquiring Vilma from the Jets? That's the only move that we made this offseason that required giving up draft picks for a previously injured star linebacker. Dan Morgan was a low risk high reward player that costed us absolutely nothing. The thing is, we just have no idea. That is what I am getting at. If we are upgrading a key position, let's start with a talented and healthy prospect or player, then go from there. If we are going for depth, then we can roll the dice and deal with the outcome. But making plans based on a 'best case' scenario and not even considering the 'worst case' scenario, is a bit dumb. Like gambling is dumb, if you don't really have very much money. Originally Posted by Doctor Saint 504 makes good points about our competition this year. We have an easier schedule however(according to last year's records). simply adding one or two key players does not make those teams superbowl contenders tho. that was my argument for bringing in shockey. the eagles added asante samuel whom, IMO, was the only key offseason move for them. with samuel and lito on the corners they will have a dominant pass defense. however, the bears and panthers are up in the air. we normally dont beat the bears and if we lose to them(i penciled us in for a loss there) it wont hurt our chances for a superbowl. the panthers usually split the series with us so im not worried about that either. whether we split the series or not, they will not sweep us simply because our offense is so dominating and their defense will not match up The Eagles quietly made some smart and interesting moves this year. They signed Dan Klecko to be their fullback. His previous starting position was D Line, although the Colts also used him as a TE on short yardage situations. They also signed a guy named Kris Wilson, who was behind Gonzales at TE and HB and who also had lined up in the backfield. Plus they signed DE Chris Clemons (Raiders), LB Rocky Boiman(Colts), RB Lorenzo Booker (Fins) In the Draft they got DT Trevor Laws, WR Desean Jackson, FS Quintin Demps, CB Jack Ikegwuonu They definitely added more than one player in 08.
	If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Last edited by pakowitz; 05-23-2008 at 12:42 AM..

05-23-2008, 07:05 AM	#37
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers Big Time Gamblers? - Black and Gold Forums I started a reply and it went on for great lengths so I felt it better posted in the Blog section of the site.

05-23-2008, 07:14 AM	#38
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,753	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers The thing is, we just have no idea. That is what I am getting at. If we are upgrading a key position, let's start with a talented and healthy prospect or player, then go from there. If we are going for depth, then we can roll the dice and deal with the outcome. But making plans based on a 'best case' scenario and not even considering the 'worst case' scenario, is a bit dumb. Like gambling is dumb, if you don't really have very much money. You make it sound like we're putting all our eggs into one basket. We've only made two big acquistions on injured players in the past, Brees and Vilma. Only Brees was a big investment and risk, not Vilma. He was had for a nickel on a dollar. If he doesn't work out, we didn't lose much. And if he does, what a steal he would be. I'd rather have Vilma than that 4th round pick we gave up any day of the week... as I'm sure most, and probably you, would agree (which makes this thread pointless). Making big risk investments in highly talented injured players has not been a trend. It's only happened once. I'd also like to point out that if we wanted to gamble, we had and have plenty of cap room to do whatever as we please.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

05-23-2008, 11:40 AM	#39
504Highlander Registered Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 47 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers Originally Posted by papz You make it sound like we're putting all our eggs into one basket. We've only made two big acquistions on injured players in the past, Brees and Vilma. Only Brees was a big investment and risk, not Vilma. He was had for a nickel on a dollar. If he doesn't work out, we didn't lose much. And if he does, what a steal he would be. I'd rather have Vilma than that 4th round pick we gave up any day of the week... as I'm sure most, and probably you, would agree (which makes this thread pointless). Making big risk investments in highly talented injured players has not been a trend. It's only happened once. I'd also like to point out that if we wanted to gamble, we had and have plenty of cap room to do whatever as we please. Saints needed to add speed and more talent at LB. They added Vilma and Morgan, both seriously injured. Morgan has retired and on WWL radio yesterday, Vilma was discussing not be able to participate fully as he is still rehabbing. Last year they brought in LB Simmons who was coming off a serious injury and was never really productive. He was cut too. This year the Saints will likely have to start without McAllister and therefore begin a tough season at a competitive disadvantage. We are not discussing a player, we are looking at a FO philosophy, that goes thinks 'bargain hunting' is a legit way to improve the team.
	If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

05-23-2008, 11:56 AM	#40
foreverfan 12,000 BS Posts Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 13,457 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers Ocean? I take great offense to football being compared to an ocean. Have any of you ever been left at sea? You get sunburned, thirsty, tired and eventually eaten by sharks. How does this compare to football? Sorry, I couldn't resist.