Saints' Staff are Gamblers

504Highlander · 05-23-2008, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by papz

And what did these moves cost us? Practically nothing. I don't see anything wrong whatsoever on the moves we've made. I can't see why anyone would complain about a low risk low investment high reward signing/trade.

Once again, so were you opposed to us acquiring Vilma?

Did Brees not work out?

What did Morgan cost us in the end?

You act like we haven't made any inquiries all offseason about "healthy" players. They just haven't been in our price range. Why overpay if you don't think that player will get you over that hump? Obviously we felt comfortable enough in Vilma to obtain him... it'll be okay. Even if he didn't start the season 100%, he's still better than what we've got at 80.

One may forget that the '06 team didn't exactly look good on paper... especially at LB.

The cost is much more than dollars. Let's compare the history of the Saints franchise to say; The Carolina Panthers and the Jacksonville Jaguars and lately, the Houston Texans.

The common denominator is time. The Saints and the fans and the city have 'endured' the lack of success for a very long time.

Panthers, Jags and Texans are relatively new teams which have done well in a short time.

Much of their success has to do with acquiring talent that can get on the field and contribute right away. In general. they have done a better job of getting talent and production through the draft and free agency.

That is the core of my beef with the philosophy of this FO.

iceshack149 · 05-23-2008, 02:17 PM

Panthers, Jags and Texans are relatively new teams which have done well in a short time.

Panthers and Jags sure. But Texans?

Welcome 504. You've played a good devils advocate and it makes it interesting. Unless you're serious about the sky is falling stuff?

Much of their success has to do with acquiring talent that can get on the field and contribute right away. In general. they have done a better job of getting talent and production through the draft and free agency.

The Saints went to the NFC Championship game in 2006. It's 2008 and most of the talented players that were on the team then are on the team now.
You're concerned about the RB, TE, and LB positions and I agree that RB and LB are indeed weaknesses. However, I assert that those two positions are stronger in 2008 than they were in 2006. Stronger because of two guys: Pierre Thomas and Jonathon Vilma.

I understand that you are concerned with the health of two players that have been great in their own right in McAllister and Vilma. I have no argument for that. I can't say that they will be 100% by game one so all I can do assume that behind the scenes, the Saints coaching staff knows what they are doing.

The big weakness for the Saints to address after the 2007 season was defense. McCray, Ellis, Vilma, Porter are all defensive players that are sure to be on the field a lot this year so to be disappointed the FO after these moves is befuddling to me. Were you expecting the team to be like the Raiders or the Redskins and break the bank on every free agent they could get their hands on? That doesn't work unless the team is rebuilding and have no where to go but up.

On offense, if Deuce isn't healthy enough to begin the season then I'm pretty confident in Pierre Thomas. His game in Chicago was phenomenal and the spot duty before that game showed much also. He was in the voting for Rookie of the Week after that 24 yard TD run.

I think that many people, even non-Saints fans, would agree that the Saints are favored to be on top of the NFC South come seasons end.

Every team has weaknesses. The Saints have done pretty well this off-season in my book.

foreverfan · 05-23-2008, 10:56 AM

Ocean? I take great offense to football being compared to an ocean.

Have any of you ever been left at sea? You get sunburned, thirsty, tired and eventually eaten by sharks. How does this compare to football?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

SmashMouth · 05-23-2008, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by foreverfan

Ocean? I take great offense to football being compared to an ocean.

Have any of you ever been left at sea? You get sunburned, thirsty, tired and eventually eaten by sharks. How does this compare to football?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Other than Vilma if healthy, our LB's play like they are left in an ocean!

RockyMountainSaint · 05-23-2008, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by foreverfan

Ocean? I take great offense to football being compared to an ocean.

Have any of you ever been left at sea? You get sunburned, thirsty, tired and eventually eaten by sharks. How does this compare to football?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

"Man goes into cage.
Cage goes into water.
Shark is in the water.
"Our" shark."

"We're gonna need a bigger boat."

Saint_LB · 09-26-2009, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by foreverfan

Ocean? I take great offense to football being compared to an ocean.

Have any of you ever been left at sea? You get sunburned, thirsty, tired and eventually eaten by sharks. How does this compare to football?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

bad boy

papz · 05-23-2008, 01:54 PM

Risk, cost, now time... everytime there's a response then you change it and make it about something else. If you have a problem with how we acquire talent, then you obviously have a problem with Brees and Vilma being here.

What do the Jags, Panthers, Texans, and Saints all have in common? No Super Bowl ring. They can be 10 times more talented, have earlier success winning meaningless football games, and it still leads to no ring. We're all in the same boat. I couldn't give a diddly squat about what happened 10 or 20 years ago... we live in the now. This is a different era and regime of Saints football... have a little faith. It got us pretty far a couple of years ago... and we should rebound nicely this season.

504Highlander · 05-23-2008, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by papz

Risk, cost, now time... everytime there's a response then you change it and make it about something else. If you have a problem with how we acquire talent, then you obviously have a problem with Brees and Vilma being here.

What do the Jags, Panthers, Texans, and Saints all have in common? No Super Bowl ring. They can be 10 times more talented, have earlier success winning meaningless football games, and it still leads to no ring. We're all in the same boat. I couldn't give a diddly squat about what happened 10 or 20 years ago... we live in the now. This is a different era and regime of Saints football... have a little faith. It got us pretty far a couple of years ago... and we should rebound nicely this season.

Why don't you read the post from page one. You will get the gist, including my comment about Brees.

By the way, you are the one that keeps talking money. It is not my money, so I am not focused on that.

Risks that become let downs, which turn into wasted hopes, and the familiar refrain, 'maybe next year'.

Why not this year! With some bada$$ players! Right out the gate Game One, both barrels blazing !!

Let's get this thing going.

hagan714 · 05-24-2008, 05:23 AM

We all hoped for WLB upgrade but so far it has not happened. there is still time. I am fine with Shanle for another year.
Dull? LOL not at all. I am liking this thread.
504 you make some good points but there are only so many players you can draft in 3 years and sign as FA. Plus keep your FAs. Time is what it takes. I still have problems seeing any other real gambles outside of vilma. who without a doubt is worth it.
Yes I have read this from page 1.

papz · 05-24-2008, 09:38 AM

Edit.

I've read the whole thing. I know your stance and how it's changed. It's pointless for me to continue... we've made our points. I understand what you say that's our problem... but the results have proven not to be a problem. But you can feel however you want... it's your opinion.

05-23-2008, 12:18 PM	#1
504Highlander Registered Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 47 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers Originally Posted by papz And what did these moves cost us? Practically nothing. I don't see anything wrong whatsoever on the moves we've made. I can't see why anyone would complain about a low risk low investment high reward signing/trade. Once again, so were you opposed to us acquiring Vilma? Did Brees not work out? What did Morgan cost us in the end? You act like we haven't made any inquiries all offseason about "healthy" players. They just haven't been in our price range. Why overpay if you don't think that player will get you over that hump? Obviously we felt comfortable enough in Vilma to obtain him... it'll be okay. Even if he didn't start the season 100%, he's still better than what we've got at 80. One may forget that the '06 team didn't exactly look good on paper... especially at LB. The cost is much more than dollars. Let's compare the history of the Saints franchise to say; The Carolina Panthers and the Jacksonville Jaguars and lately, the Houston Texans. The common denominator is time. The Saints and the fans and the city have 'endured' the lack of success for a very long time. Panthers, Jags and Texans are relatively new teams which have done well in a short time. Much of their success has to do with acquiring talent that can get on the field and contribute right away. In general. they have done a better job of getting talent and production through the draft and free agency. That is the core of my beef with the philosophy of this FO.
	If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

05-23-2008, 02:17 PM	#2
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,356 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers Panthers, Jags and Texans are relatively new teams which have done well in a short time. Panthers and Jags sure. But Texans? Welcome 504. You've played a good devils advocate and it makes it interesting. Unless you're serious about the sky is falling stuff? Much of their success has to do with acquiring talent that can get on the field and contribute right away. In general. they have done a better job of getting talent and production through the draft and free agency. The Saints went to the NFC Championship game in 2006. It's 2008 and most of the talented players that were on the team then are on the team now. You're concerned about the RB, TE, and LB positions and I agree that RB and LB are indeed weaknesses. However, I assert that those two positions are stronger in 2008 than they were in 2006. Stronger because of two guys: Pierre Thomas and Jonathon Vilma. I understand that you are concerned with the health of two players that have been great in their own right in McAllister and Vilma. I have no argument for that. I can't say that they will be 100% by game one so all I can do assume that behind the scenes, the Saints coaching staff knows what they are doing. The big weakness for the Saints to address after the 2007 season was defense. McCray, Ellis, Vilma, Porter are all defensive players that are sure to be on the field a lot this year so to be disappointed the FO after these moves is befuddling to me. Were you expecting the team to be like the Raiders or the Redskins and break the bank on every free agent they could get their hands on? That doesn't work unless the team is rebuilding and have no where to go but up. On offense, if Deuce isn't healthy enough to begin the season then I'm pretty confident in Pierre Thomas. His game in Chicago was phenomenal and the spot duty before that game showed much also. He was in the voting for Rookie of the Week after that 24 yard TD run. I think that many people, even non-Saints fans, would agree that the Saints are favored to be on top of the NFC South come seasons end. Every team has weaknesses. The Saints have done pretty well this off-season in my book.
	"...it's good to have friends, no matter where they are."--JOESAM2002

05-23-2008, 10:56 AM	#3
foreverfan 12,000 BS Posts Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 13,457 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers Ocean? I take great offense to football being compared to an ocean. Have any of you ever been left at sea? You get sunburned, thirsty, tired and eventually eaten by sharks. How does this compare to football? Sorry, I couldn't resist.

05-23-2008, 11:09 AM	#4
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,513 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers Originally Posted by foreverfan Ocean? I take great offense to football being compared to an ocean. Have any of you ever been left at sea? You get sunburned, thirsty, tired and eventually eaten by sharks. How does this compare to football? Sorry, I couldn't resist. Other than Vilma if healthy, our LB's play like they are left in an ocean!

05-23-2008, 02:31 PM	#5
RockyMountainSaint Mmm That Smell! Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Metairie Terrace Posts: 3,073	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers Originally Posted by foreverfan Ocean? I take great offense to football being compared to an ocean. Have any of you ever been left at sea? You get sunburned, thirsty, tired and eventually eaten by sharks. How does this compare to football? Sorry, I couldn't resist. "Man goes into cage. Cage goes into water. Shark is in the water. "Our" shark." "We're gonna need a bigger boat."

09-26-2009, 06:06 AM	#6
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers Originally Posted by foreverfan Ocean? I take great offense to football being compared to an ocean. Have any of you ever been left at sea? You get sunburned, thirsty, tired and eventually eaten by sharks. How does this compare to football? Sorry, I couldn't resist. bad boy
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894

05-23-2008, 01:54 PM	#7
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,772	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers Risk, cost, now time... everytime there's a response then you change it and make it about something else. If you have a problem with how we acquire talent, then you obviously have a problem with Brees and Vilma being here. What do the Jags, Panthers, Texans, and Saints all have in common? No Super Bowl ring. They can be 10 times more talented, have earlier success winning meaningless football games, and it still leads to no ring. We're all in the same boat. I couldn't give a diddly squat about what happened 10 or 20 years ago... we live in the now. This is a different era and regime of Saints football... have a little faith. It got us pretty far a couple of years ago... and we should rebound nicely this season.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

05-23-2008, 08:54 PM	#8
504Highlander Registered Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 47 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers Originally Posted by papz Risk, cost, now time... everytime there's a response then you change it and make it about something else. If you have a problem with how we acquire talent, then you obviously have a problem with Brees and Vilma being here. What do the Jags, Panthers, Texans, and Saints all have in common? No Super Bowl ring. They can be 10 times more talented, have earlier success winning meaningless football games, and it still leads to no ring. We're all in the same boat. I couldn't give a diddly squat about what happened 10 or 20 years ago... we live in the now. This is a different era and regime of Saints football... have a little faith. It got us pretty far a couple of years ago... and we should rebound nicely this season. Why don't you read the post from page one. You will get the gist, including my comment about Brees. By the way, you are the one that keeps talking money. It is not my money, so I am not focused on that. Risks that become let downs, which turn into wasted hopes, and the familiar refrain, 'maybe next year'. Why not this year! With some bada$$ players! Right out the gate Game One, both barrels blazing !! Let's get this thing going.

05-24-2008, 05:23 AM	#9
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers We all hoped for WLB upgrade but so far it has not happened. there is still time. I am fine with Shanle for another year. Dull? LOL not at all. I am liking this thread. 504 you make some good points but there are only so many players you can draft in 3 years and sign as FA. Plus keep your FAs. Time is what it takes. I still have problems seeing any other real gambles outside of vilma. who without a doubt is worth it. Yes I have read this from page 1.

05-24-2008, 09:38 AM	#10
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,772	Re: Saints' Staff are Gamblers Edit. I've read the whole thing. I know your stance and how it's changed. It's pointless for me to continue... we've made our points. I understand what you say that's our problem... but the results have proven not to be a problem. But you can feel however you want... it's your opinion.