Carney MUST Go

arsaint · 11-16-2009, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by stockman311

When we didn't go for that last field goal and then Morestead punted that ball through the back of the end zone I thought I was gonna throw a damn brick through the TV.

+1

We gained a lousy 15 yards of field position on that. I would have rather have gone for it on 4th down and missed...

saintsfan1976 · 11-16-2009, 01:52 PM

Wait a second. Hasn't it been necessary to have an extra place kicker due to Hartley's suspension and injury? Do you really think we should have cut Carney (pro bowl kicker) when Hartley returned with exactly ZERO game action this season?

We need the roster spot now in light of injuries, but I'm glad we had Carney. And if I'm correct about the play, we only needed a few yards anyway and needed the points.

Papa Voodoo · 11-16-2009, 01:55 PM

Isn't Hartley hurt?

Budsdrinker · 11-16-2009, 02:47 PM

Hartley has an ankle sprain and it is my belief Payton is hanging on to Carney for 2 reasons, 1.because of other teams need for kickers and 2. for letting him go in 2007.Now if the injuries continue to mount up, then I can see someone getting cut.

ScottF · 11-16-2009, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Wait a second. Hasn't it been necessary to have an extra place kicker due to Hartley's suspension and injury? Do you really think we should have cut Carney (pro bowl kicker) when Hartley returned with exactly ZERO game action this season?

We need the roster spot now in light of injuries, but I'm glad we had Carney. And if I'm correct about the play, we only needed a few yards anyway and needed the points.

With injuries adding up I don't think we can afford the luxury of 2 kickers. I serouisly think we better add someone who weighs about 160 pounds more than either kicker- our run D has been porous to say the least.

As for SP being SP, a good coach looks at 3rd and mid in no man's land and decides then if he is planning to go on 4th. I don't have a problem with SP extending his "4 down territory", but make two good calls, not 1 then a reaction

QBREES9 · 11-16-2009, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by strato

We are agressive...thats how we play.....we dont kick field goals..having said that ..lets cutt both kickers ...and let Brees kick..if need be...lol

Hell go for it.

stockman311 · 11-16-2009, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by QBREES9

Hell go for it.

Your saying this because we wound up winning. It doesn't make the decision right. If your an NFL kicker and you can't make a 48 yd field goal indoors then your days should be over. The camera man even showed Carney on the field wanting to go out and EXPECTING to go out and kick and then he shuffled back to the sideline with his head down. Hell maybe he can make the kick. I'm saying that if Payton has no confidence he can make the kick then he shouldn't be on the team. Do you think that helped Carney's confidence in the least going forward? What happens when we need a 49 yder for the win, then Payton says, ok Carney go win it for us. Carney now has this image of the coach telling him he doesn't trust him at the end of games. I hated the decision to go for it TWICE and I still do. We got lucky on the first one and stuffed Jackson on 4th down. The second time it nearly cost us the game.

stockman311 · 11-16-2009, 04:44 PM

Kickers are mentally unstable as it is. They are like golfers in some respect. If you kill their confidence or they lose it somehow they get a case of the yips and are just finished. Look at what happened to Mike Vanderjagt. Most reliable kicker in the history of the game and now he is out of the NFL because he lost it mentally. I'm not saying Carney is there, but I am saying Payton is putting him there.

turbo_dog · 11-16-2009, 04:58 PM

Hartley was suspended for four games for steroids right? Shouldn't he be back now?

MatthewT · 11-16-2009, 05:41 PM

Everyone makes great points regarding this topic. I don't think Payton was going to kick that long field goal regardless of the kicker. In hind sight, he should have gone for the first. I believe the intention was to pin the Rams deep, so I have no idea what Morestead was thinking. Anything under 50 yards is in Carney's indoor range. The problem is anything over 40 becomes a crap shot for all kickers, and the way Bulger was picking apart the secondary, no way you give the Rams that short of a field.

Yes, with the mounting injuries it's very tough to keep both kickers. It would be an easy decision if Carney was doing bad, but the truth is he is having a very good consistent year. It would also be difficult to lose a very talented Hartley, as we all know he would be snatched up in a heartbeat. My guess if things get bad enough for roster spots, then Hartley is going to probably be IR'd with that so called ankle sprain that is showing up on the injury reports.

11-16-2009, 01:47 PM	#11
arsaint Saint Historian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: deep in the bowels of a hidden bunker, somewhere under the brick & steel of a nondescript building.. Posts: 2,698	Re: Carney MUST Go Originally Posted by stockman311 When we didn't go for that last field goal and then Morestead punted that ball through the back of the end zone I thought I was gonna throw a damn brick through the TV. +1 We gained a lousy 15 yards of field position on that. I would have rather have gone for it on 4th down and missed...

11-16-2009, 01:52 PM	#12
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,806 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Carney MUST Go Wait a second. Hasn't it been necessary to have an extra place kicker due to Hartley's suspension and injury? Do you really think we should have cut Carney (pro bowl kicker) when Hartley returned with exactly ZERO game action this season? We need the roster spot now in light of injuries, but I'm glad we had Carney. And if I'm correct about the play, we only needed a few yards anyway and needed the points.

11-16-2009, 01:55 PM	#13
Papa Voodoo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,633	Re: Carney MUST Go Isn't Hartley hurt?

11-16-2009, 02:47 PM	#14
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: Carney MUST Go Hartley has an ankle sprain and it is my belief Payton is hanging on to Carney for 2 reasons, 1.because of other teams need for kickers and 2. for letting him go in 2007.Now if the injuries continue to mount up, then I can see someone getting cut.

11-16-2009, 02:50 PM	#15
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: Carney MUST Go Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Wait a second. Hasn't it been necessary to have an extra place kicker due to Hartley's suspension and injury? Do you really think we should have cut Carney (pro bowl kicker) when Hartley returned with exactly ZERO game action this season? We need the roster spot now in light of injuries, but I'm glad we had Carney. And if I'm correct about the play, we only needed a few yards anyway and needed the points. With injuries adding up I don't think we can afford the luxury of 2 kickers. I serouisly think we better add someone who weighs about 160 pounds more than either kicker- our run D has been porous to say the least. As for SP being SP, a good coach looks at 3rd and mid in no man's land and decides then if he is planning to go on 4th. I don't have a problem with SP extending his "4 down territory", but make two good calls, not 1 then a reaction

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11-16-2009, 03:04 PM	#16
QBREES9 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Haven Ct Posts: 23,985	Re: Carney MUST Go Originally Posted by strato We are agressive...thats how we play.....we dont kick field goals..having said that ..lets cutt both kickers ...and let Brees kick..if need be...lol Hell go for it.

11-16-2009, 04:41 PM	#17
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	Re: Carney MUST Go Originally Posted by QBREES9 Hell go for it. Your saying this because we wound up winning. It doesn't make the decision right. If your an NFL kicker and you can't make a 48 yd field goal indoors then your days should be over. The camera man even showed Carney on the field wanting to go out and EXPECTING to go out and kick and then he shuffled back to the sideline with his head down. Hell maybe he can make the kick. I'm saying that if Payton has no confidence he can make the kick then he shouldn't be on the team. Do you think that helped Carney's confidence in the least going forward? What happens when we need a 49 yder for the win, then Payton says, ok Carney go win it for us. Carney now has this image of the coach telling him he doesn't trust him at the end of games. I hated the decision to go for it TWICE and I still do. We got lucky on the first one and stuffed Jackson on 4th down. The second time it nearly cost us the game.

11-16-2009, 04:44 PM	#18
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	Re: Carney MUST Go Kickers are mentally unstable as it is. They are like golfers in some respect. If you kill their confidence or they lose it somehow they get a case of the yips and are just finished. Look at what happened to Mike Vanderjagt. Most reliable kicker in the history of the game and now he is out of the NFL because he lost it mentally. I'm not saying Carney is there, but I am saying Payton is putting him there.

11-16-2009, 04:58 PM	#19
turbo_dog 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,576	Re: Carney MUST Go Hartley was suspended for four games for steroids right? Shouldn't he be back now?

11-16-2009, 05:41 PM	#20
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: Carney MUST Go Everyone makes great points regarding this topic. I don't think Payton was going to kick that long field goal regardless of the kicker. In hind sight, he should have gone for the first. I believe the intention was to pin the Rams deep, so I have no idea what Morestead was thinking. Anything under 50 yards is in Carney's indoor range. The problem is anything over 40 becomes a crap shot for all kickers, and the way Bulger was picking apart the secondary, no way you give the Rams that short of a field. Yes, with the mounting injuries it's very tough to keep both kickers. It would be an easy decision if Carney was doing bad, but the truth is he is having a very good consistent year. It would also be difficult to lose a very talented Hartley, as we all know he would be snatched up in a heartbeat. My guess if things get bad enough for roster spots, then Hartley is going to probably be IR'd with that so called ankle sprain that is showing up on the injury reports.