Owners pass Overtime rule proposal

03-24-2010, 02:55 AM

So basically, I am reading this right. That the team that loses the toss, has more of an advantage, than the team that wins. Because, unless the winning team scores a touchdown, the game is still going.

Saint_LB · 03-24-2010, 05:15 AM

Wow...I had a whole line of thinking on this topic, and then I thought back to 1971. I was in American Gov't. class and our teacher had us playing a game called, "Who can beat Nixon?" She said that one of our test grades would be determined by how we finished the game. I don't remember much about how the game was played, but I do remember that who became Nixon was decided at the beginning of the game by a coin toss, and if you lost the coin-toss you were Nixon because he had a decidable disadvantage during the game.

Guess who lost the coin-toss tournament. Right. So...I proceeded to tell the teacher that she could not do that. She said, "I cannot do what?"
I said, "You can't give me a test score that is determined in any way by a coin-toss." She said, "It's my class, and I can do whatever I want." At that point, I said, "You most certainly are the teacher of this class...that part is true. However, the part where you said you can do whatever you want is simply not true. If you decided that you wanted to kill everyone in here, could you do that?"

It was at that point that she invited me to go visit the asst. principal...which was what I wanted. He just happened to be the same guy that use to be the head football coach and someone I could relate to...not that it mattered in this case.

Anyway, Romping Ray backed me up, the teacher resorted to tears, and later a mental institution...and I didn't have to take a D- because I lost a game...which I did, btw.

Anyway, with all that in mind, and I know it was a lot...I still think that they should leave it alone. It's worked for all these years and people have had to live or die by it...so why change it now.

I think that we, as Saints fans, should be most offended because is it me or does it seem like they are making the change now because the team that got to and ultimately won the SB was not the team they wanted?

SmashMouth · 03-24-2010, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

more fair? all its doing is taking the kicker out of the game

apparently even the owners believe that kickers arent very important

however, when you look at the list of all time leading scorers in the NFL.....you'll notice they are all kickers

why? because kickers are a huge part of the game....they are required to do several different things that are unseen

not only do they kick, they also must play defense

besides the fact that they completely insulted special teams.....they embarrassed defenses by assuming that you cant stop the other team no matter what team wins the coin toss

the old rules required the defense to make a play.....if they didnt, then the other team won.....and since the NFL has cut out special teams out of overtime, there is only 2 phases of football......offense and defense

but since the new rules require both teams to get a chance on offense, they are taking defense out of the game too.....so i guess defense is completely lost too

Good way to look at it, CL! No wonder you won the activity award!

CantonLegend · 03-24-2010, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Good way to look at it, CL! No wonder you won the activity award!

yea.....as long as i continue to respond to everything im going to continue to have this award

Saint_LB · 03-24-2010, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

yea.....as long as i continue to respond to everything im going to continue to have this award

Yes...I coveted the award and also had my time with it...right up until I realized that it could also be thought of as the "no-life" award.

Tobias-Reiper · 03-24-2010, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

but since the new rules require both teams to get a chance on offense, they are taking defense out of the game too.....so i guess defense is completely lost too

That's the one point that's really bothering me and what our resident genius stockman311 did not get in my posts. Is the new rule effectively guaranteeing possession of the ball? "Getting a chance on offense" means the offense has to have possession of the ball, and the offense doesn't get possession of the ball until after the special teams get the ball. A successful onside kick negates possession to the offense and therefore the offense doesn't get a chance, unless they are now going to outlaw onside kicks at the beginning of OT, which would be a direct stab at the Saints for both winning in OT on the first offensive possession in the NFCCG and kicking an onside kick in the SB.

Saint_LB · 03-24-2010, 08:51 AM

The NFL should be happy. It is my opinion that the best team in football won the SB. Period.

Show me somebody who disagrees, and I will show you someone who did not watch every Saints game.

poydras · 03-24-2010, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by st thomas

just wondering, the vikqeens voted no. they did'nt want the cry baby lengend on there back?

No. The worst time to change something like that is right AFTER it went against you. They got burned by the rule last time and knew odds were that the next time it might have gone in their favor. Changing the rule was the same as closing the barn door after the horse got away.

stockman311 · 03-24-2010, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

So, it is "more fair" that the team that wins the coin toss cannot win the game on the first possession of overtime with a FG, but the team that lost the coin toss can win the game on the first possession of overtime..

Oh, yeah, that is more fair... suuuuuure.

Let me try and break this down one more time for you since you don't appear to be getting it. The NFL thought the team that LOST the coin toss was not being treated fairly by not touching the ball on offense. Therefore this new OT was desingned to make it MORE FAIR for the team that loses the toss. By that very nature, it becomes LESS FAIR for the team that wins the coin toss. However, since 100% of the teams that won the toss chose to take the ball, and since 53% of teams that won the toss won the game under the old format, and 70% of those games were decided by a field goal, they wanted to make it less likely that a game would be decided by a kickoff return, pass interference call, field goal, game over. Understand?

As for Canton, he we go again with you. NO, kickers have not been removed from the game. If TEAM A kicks a field goal on their FIRST POSSESSION, then that score can win the game. TEAM A must play DEFENSE. Which means your other assertation is incorrect as well. In fact both teams kickers and both teams defenses will be MORE involved in overtime than the previous OT. Let's try thinking before typing from now on gents. It's not that hard.

stockman311 · 03-24-2010, 09:20 AM

By the way, Saints fans should be ECSTATIC about this rule change. In overtime if the Saints win the coin toss, we get to take our ELITE QB against a completely worn out defense and win the game with a TD, which we score more of than any other team in the NFL by the way.

If the Saints lose the toss, we now know that a team has to go 80 yds against us to beat us. And if the other team only kicks a field goal, we know we can win the game with a TD or tie it with a FG.

I don't like the new OT rule. I love it. If I were the Rams, with a crappy QB, I would hate it. I'm sure the Viqueens voted against it because they are either going to have a QB that plays great early in games and craps his pants in the clutch, or they are going to have Tarvaris Jackson.

03-24-2010, 02:55 AM	#51
Threaded by SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1 Rating: (0 votes - average) So basically, I am reading this right. That the team that loses the toss, has more of an advantage, than the team that wins. Because, unless the winning team scores a touchdown, the game is still going.
Views: 9807

03-24-2010, 05:15 AM	#52
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Re: Owners pass Overtime rule proposal Wow...I had a whole line of thinking on this topic, and then I thought back to 1971. I was in American Gov't. class and our teacher had us playing a game called, "Who can beat Nixon?" She said that one of our test grades would be determined by how we finished the game. I don't remember much about how the game was played, but I do remember that who became Nixon was decided at the beginning of the game by a coin toss, and if you lost the coin-toss you were Nixon because he had a decidable disadvantage during the game. Guess who lost the coin-toss tournament. Right. So...I proceeded to tell the teacher that she could not do that. She said, "I cannot do what?" I said, "You can't give me a test score that is determined in any way by a coin-toss." She said, "It's my class, and I can do whatever I want." At that point, I said, "You most certainly are the teacher of this class...that part is true. However, the part where you said you can do whatever you want is simply not true. If you decided that you wanted to kill everyone in here, could you do that?" It was at that point that she invited me to go visit the asst. principal...which was what I wanted. He just happened to be the same guy that use to be the head football coach and someone I could relate to...not that it mattered in this case. Anyway, Romping Ray backed me up, the teacher resorted to tears, and later a mental institution...and I didn't have to take a D- because I lost a game...which I did, btw. Anyway, with all that in mind, and I know it was a lot...I still think that they should leave it alone. It's worked for all these years and people have had to live or die by it...so why change it now. I think that we, as Saints fans, should be most offended because is it me or does it seem like they are making the change now because the team that got to and ultimately won the SB was not the team they wanted?
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right!

03-24-2010, 06:12 AM	#53
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,616 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Owners pass Overtime rule proposal Originally Posted by CantonLegend more fair? all its doing is taking the kicker out of the game apparently even the owners believe that kickers arent very important however, when you look at the list of all time leading scorers in the NFL.....you'll notice they are all kickers why? because kickers are a huge part of the game....they are required to do several different things that are unseen not only do they kick, they also must play defense besides the fact that they completely insulted special teams.....they embarrassed defenses by assuming that you cant stop the other team no matter what team wins the coin toss the old rules required the defense to make a play.....if they didnt, then the other team won.....and since the NFL has cut out special teams out of overtime, there is only 2 phases of football......offense and defense but since the new rules require both teams to get a chance on offense, they are taking defense out of the game too.....so i guess defense is completely lost too Good way to look at it, CL! No wonder you won the activity award!

03-24-2010, 07:22 AM	#54
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Owners pass Overtime rule proposal Originally Posted by SmashMouth Good way to look at it, CL! No wonder you won the activity award! yea.....as long as i continue to respond to everything im going to continue to have this award

03-24-2010, 08:42 AM	#55
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Re: Owners pass Overtime rule proposal Originally Posted by CantonLegend yea.....as long as i continue to respond to everything im going to continue to have this award Yes...I coveted the award and also had my time with it...right up until I realized that it could also be thought of as the "no-life" award.
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Last edited by Saint_LB; 03-24-2010 at 08:49 AM..

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03-24-2010, 08:47 AM	#56
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Owners pass Overtime rule proposal Originally Posted by CantonLegend but since the new rules require both teams to get a chance on offense, they are taking defense out of the game too.....so i guess defense is completely lost too That's the one point that's really bothering me and what our resident genius stockman311 did not get in my posts. Is the new rule effectively guaranteeing possession of the ball? "Getting a chance on offense" means the offense has to have possession of the ball, and the offense doesn't get possession of the ball until after the special teams get the ball. A successful onside kick negates possession to the offense and therefore the offense doesn't get a chance, unless they are now going to outlaw onside kicks at the beginning of OT, which would be a direct stab at the Saints for both winning in OT on the first offensive possession in the NFCCG and kicking an onside kick in the SB.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

03-24-2010, 08:51 AM	#57
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Re: Owners pass Overtime rule proposal The NFL should be happy. It is my opinion that the best team in football won the SB. Period. Show me somebody who disagrees, and I will show you someone who did not watch every Saints game.
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894

03-24-2010, 09:09 AM	#58
poydras Team Doctor Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Deep South Posts: 856	Re: Owners pass Overtime rule proposal Originally Posted by st thomas just wondering, the vikqeens voted no. they did'nt want the cry baby lengend on there back? No. The worst time to change something like that is right AFTER it went against you. They got burned by the rule last time and knew odds were that the next time it might have gone in their favor. Changing the rule was the same as closing the barn door after the horse got away.

03-24-2010, 09:16 AM	#59
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	Re: Owners pass Overtime rule proposal Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper So, it is "more fair" that the team that wins the coin toss cannot win the game on the first possession of overtime with a FG, but the team that lost the coin toss can win the game on the first possession of overtime.. Oh, yeah, that is more fair... suuuuuure. Let me try and break this down one more time for you since you don't appear to be getting it. The NFL thought the team that LOST the coin toss was not being treated fairly by not touching the ball on offense. Therefore this new OT was desingned to make it MORE FAIR for the team that loses the toss. By that very nature, it becomes LESS FAIR for the team that wins the coin toss. However, since 100% of the teams that won the toss chose to take the ball, and since 53% of teams that won the toss won the game under the old format, and 70% of those games were decided by a field goal, they wanted to make it less likely that a game would be decided by a kickoff return, pass interference call, field goal, game over. Understand? As for Canton, he we go again with you. NO, kickers have not been removed from the game. If TEAM A kicks a field goal on their FIRST POSSESSION, then that score can win the game. TEAM A must play DEFENSE. Which means your other assertation is incorrect as well. In fact both teams kickers and both teams defenses will be MORE involved in overtime than the previous OT. Let's try thinking before typing from now on gents. It's not that hard.
	Last edited by stockman311; 03-24-2010 at 09:22 AM..

03-24-2010, 09:20 AM	#60
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	Re: Owners pass Overtime rule proposal By the way, Saints fans should be ECSTATIC about this rule change. In overtime if the Saints win the coin toss, we get to take our ELITE QB against a completely worn out defense and win the game with a TD, which we score more of than any other team in the NFL by the way. If the Saints lose the toss, we now know that a team has to go 80 yds against us to beat us. And if the other team only kicks a field goal, we know we can win the game with a TD or tie it with a FG. I don't like the new OT rule. I love it. If I were the Rams, with a crappy QB, I would hate it. I'm sure the Viqueens voted against it because they are either going to have a QB that plays great early in games and craps his pants in the clutch, or they are going to have Tarvaris Jackson.