New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others

HintOfLogic · 04-16-2010, 02:19 AM

Awesomeness there guy. I'm sorry, did I say anything untrue there?

If Thomas is not Great to you, what is? Bush? I'm serious... what's you're solution?

I simply asked.... you lose Pierre, where does that leave you? where do you go from there? Bell is already gone. We're short on real running backs, are we not?

Ironically, the way you described Pierre fits Bush to a "T" with the exception of Bush being solid all around as he's proven to be bonk taking carries behind the line.

it's not a popularity contest you know.... ah, irony!

Here's another thought.... how about we address getting a real punt return guy. Bush was the worst in the league wasn't he?

CantonLegend · 04-16-2010, 02:33 AM

Originally Posted by HintOfLogic

Here's another thought.... how about we address getting a real punt return guy. Bush was the worst in the league wasn't he?

first........reggie was gameplanned around this year

teams stopped kicking deep to him......i remember him having a lot of fair catches this season because punters wouldnt punt deep and give him the room to return it.......i think he got frustrated and tried to make something out of nothing a lot more than he should've.....the beauty is that we kept him healthy, and we got decent field position because they needed to kick it shorter

secondly......the offensive line is the most important part of any run game......running backs are almost interchangeable with good offensive lines

look at guys like thomas jones, LT, emmitt smith, etc etc...the list goes on and on

they have good seasons when they are behind a great offensive line....then after awhile the system changes or the linemen move on and their production drops

"experts" blame this on age.......people that know what they are talking about realize that it is in fact the offensive line, the coach, the system, or a combination that causes the decrease in production

HintOfLogic · 04-16-2010, 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

first........reggie was gameplanned around this year

teams stopped kicking deep to him......i remember him having a lot of fair catches this season because punters wouldnt punt deep and give him the room to return it.......i think he got frustrated and tried to make something out of nothing a lot more than he should've.....the beauty is that we kept him healthy, and we got decent field position because they needed to kick it shorter

secondly......the offensive line is the most important part of any run game......running backs are almost interchangeable with good offensive lines

look at guys like thomas jones, LT, emmitt smith, etc etc...the list goes on and on

they have good seasons when they are behind a great offensive line....then after awhile the system changes or the linemen move on and their production drops

"experts" blame this on age.......people that know what they are talking about realize that it is in fact the offensive line, the coach, the system, or a combination that causes the decrease in production

OK, regardless of this master plan that the world has to make Reggie suck... here's the thing, Great players DO make something out of nothing. Players we keep holding out high hopes for, keep "trying" to make something out of nothing.

secondly, the didn't kick deep excuse / theory is typical desperate BS, but hardly true. He wasn't running up for returns. it's the typical rhetoric that viewers recycle every time he get's shut down returning.

What I remember is Reggie going down by the first guy on the scene, often by shoestring tackles in most cases. Are we really going to do this... we're going to have a debate based of of excuses?

Reggie is towards the bottom of the list on NFL PR's for Fair Catches.

and I don't even want to have a debate with you if you have any inclination that Pierre's abilities and his success was due credit to the effectiveness of the offensive line.... Brees, no doubt, but Pierre is all playmaker.

If you're theory is true wouldn't Bush be a great RB behind our offensive line? How is it that he self implodes behind our line, yet Pierre is gonna get his yards? Your theories are so full of double standards it's dizzying.

those three running backs you mentioned are about as good as it get's for the NFL. they weren't the product of good lines, they are pure playmakers and performed under all circumstances. they simply got older and accumulated injuries.... you don't know THIS!!??

citing Pierre as an average product of his O line and crediting Emmitt, LT's and Jones success on the effectiveness of their O-lines, YET, you're here to defend Reggie Bush makes me wonder how you even see well enough to type with those blinders on?

CantonLegend · 04-16-2010, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by HintOfLogic

OK, regardless of this master plan that the world has to make Reggie suck... here's the thing, Great players DO make something out of nothing. Players we keep holding out high hopes for, keep "trying" to make something out of nothing.

secondly, the didn't kick deep excuse / theory is typical desperate BS, but hardly true. He wasn't running up for returns. it's the typical rhetoric that viewers recycle every time he get's shut down returning.

What I remember is Reggie going down by the first guy on the scene, often by shoestring tackles in most cases. Are we really going to do this... we're going to have a debate based of of excuses?

Reggie is towards the bottom of the list on NFL PR's for Fair Catches.

prove it.....but more than that....show how many less times we put him back there compared to guys like lance moore and courtney roby etc.....reggie wasnt our only punt returner this season

and I don't even want to have a debate with you if you have any inclination that Pierre's abilities and his success was due credit to the effectiveness of the offensive line.... Brees, no doubt, but Pierre is all playmaker.
If you're theory is true wouldn't Bush be a great RB behind our offensive line? How is it that he self implodes behind our line, yet Pierre is gonna get his yards? Your theories are so full of double standards it's dizzying.

those three running backs you mentioned are about as good as it get's for the NFL. they weren't the product of good lines, they are pure playmakers and performed under all circumstances. they simply got older and accumulated injuries.... you don't know THIS!!??

citing Pierre as an average product of his O line and crediting Emmitt, LT's and Jones success on the effectiveness of their O-lines, YET, you're here to defend Reggie Bush makes me wonder how you even see well enough to type with those blinders on?

lmao.....you have no idea what i said and further more have no idea what you are talking about

i defended reggies punt returns.....not his running......however if you want to get into it

reggie averaged 5.6 ypc and had 30 less carries than the year before.....but managed only 15 yards less rushing than in'08

oh yea.....and reggie is a 97 speed on madden.....that proves it

HintOfLogic · 04-16-2010, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

prove it.....but more than that....show how many less times we put him back there compared to guys like lance moore and courtney roby etc.....reggie wasnt our only punt returner this season

lmao.....you have no idea what i said and further more have no idea what you are talking about

i defended reggies punt returns.....not his running......however if you want to get into it

reggie averaged 5.6 ypc and had 30 less carries than the year before.....but managed only 15 yards less rushing than in'08

oh yea.....and reggie is a 97 speed on madden.....that proves it

Here's Reggies "Fair Catches":

2009 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN

Nine on the season, tied at #26 fewest in the NFL.

And for sh!ts and giggles, why don't you check out where he sits check out his AVG:

2009 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN

now, how are you going to further change the subject.... or even dig yourself deeper into excuses. Have no idea what "I'm" talking about? How clever of an argument you've got there.... Oh, where are Lance Moore on Cortney Roby on that list?

... this coming from someone who is going to tell me some of the greatest RB's in NFL's history was result of their O line?

I'm going to tell you right now. If you are going to bring "excuses" into an argument to back up a players capabilities or lack of.... it's going nowhere. See, IMAO, I think you sound like a tool repeating typical Reggie hype rhetoric. See, he was "supposed" to be our great PR guy right. Carried all the hype and constant exaggeration (otherwise known as hope). In reality (where I live), he sucks majorly at as a PR guy... plain and simple... and if it wasn't for his major hype, major salary and lack of skill sets to offer otherwise, he wouldn't even be returning punts with the display he's put on. I don't enjoy the fact that he sucks, but I can't bring my self to the brain numbing state of accepting it and even more, defending him based of the premise of excuses.

IMAO, you're a tool incapable of thinking for yourself.

Crusader · 04-16-2010, 02:52 AM

Chill dude and read what I'm saying. Am I writing "lets get rid of Thomas"? No. Am I writing "Bush is better than Thomas"? No. I'm saying I find the OL to be more important. I think a whole lot of RBs could perform very well behind the OL we have if we can just keep it together.

Here's another thought.... how about we address getting a real punt return guy. Bush was the worst in the league wasn't he?

I start to believe you didn't watch the games. Our blocking on punt return this year was horrible the whole time. The very few times somebody got picked up Bush had decent returns. It would not have mattered if we had Cribbs, Hester or whoever back there. If you have a guy in your face right away you won't get far.

HintOfLogic · 04-16-2010, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by Crusader

Chill dude and read what I'm saying. Am I writing "lets get rid of Thomas"? No. Am I writing "Bush is better than Thomas"? No. I'm saying I find the OL to be more important. I think a whole lot of RBs could perform very well behind the OL we have if we can just keep it together.

I start to believe you didn't watch the games. Our blocking on punt return this year was horrible the whole time. The very few times somebody got picked up Bush had decent returns. It would not have mattered if we had Cribbs, Hester or whoever back there. If you have a guy in your face right away you won't get far.

Was Pierre's success the result of Browns presence?

About Bush, all I hear is this: "Everytime Bush had no opposition or an open lane towards the EZ, he did good. When someone came free on him, he couldn't slip a 1 on 1 open field tackle."

dkj527 · 04-17-2010, 11:43 AM

If they let Thomas get away,somebody or somebodys need to be fired,he's the best we've had in awhile.That dude is gonna be awesome.I'm gonna be just sick if he leaves.PAY DA MAN!

SaintPauly · 04-16-2010, 03:50 AM

Guys, in overall production, since he came into the league, compared to other backs, that were NO WHERE NEAR, as high profile as he was coming out of college, Bush has NOT lived up to the hype. Not even close. And this isn't something new from me, I have been on his butt since 07, waiting for him to be a consistent threat. Now, notice the keyword there, "constistent". That's my problem with him, he isn't consistent in his abilities. He also has a string of excuses, when it comes to WHY he hasn't consistently produced. And it always seems to be some mysterious injury, that no one finds out about, until the season is over.

I don't mind paying a guy, that you can count on week in, and week out. Drew Brees comes to mind. Does Drew have bad games? Yes, but he has more good, or great ones, than bad. Go back over this past season, and tell me how many good, or great games Reggie had. I guarantee you the number will be small. He's not worth the 8 million, but, it's an uncapped year, and they will pay it. But I guarantee you this, right here and now, if he doesn't live up to that potential this year? He will either have to restructure, or his butt will be gone. Period.

SaintPauly · 04-16-2010, 03:58 AM

Oh yeah, and just to be clear on what I consider consistency, is 100 yard games on the ground. I think, I can count on one hand, how many of those Reggie has had in his entire career. How many times has Reggie ran for more than a hundred yard games IN A ROW? Never, that I remember.

Now, if what they say is true, and in the West Coast Offense, the pass opens up the run, then why is Drew throwing for what 300, 400 yards, where as Bush is only gaining 50 or 60 on the ground. Now, before you say that he shares the load with other RBs, yes, I know, but that being true, then that means Reggie is NOT a "feature" back, which means he certainly doesn't deserve more money than a Ray Rice, or a Thomas Jones.

That's MY point. He wants 8 million a year? For what? Punt returns? Get serious gentlemen....

04-16-2010, 02:19 AM	#1
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others Awesomeness there guy. I'm sorry, did I say anything untrue there? If Thomas is not Great to you, what is? Bush? I'm serious... what's you're solution? I simply asked.... you lose Pierre, where does that leave you? where do you go from there? Bell is already gone. We're short on real running backs, are we not? Ironically, the way you described Pierre fits Bush to a "T" with the exception of Bush being solid all around as he's proven to be bonk taking carries behind the line. it's not a popularity contest you know.... ah, irony! Here's another thought.... how about we address getting a real punt return guy. Bush was the worst in the league wasn't he?
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194

04-16-2010, 02:33 AM	#2
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others Originally Posted by HintOfLogic Here's another thought.... how about we address getting a real punt return guy. Bush was the worst in the league wasn't he? first........reggie was gameplanned around this year teams stopped kicking deep to him......i remember him having a lot of fair catches this season because punters wouldnt punt deep and give him the room to return it.......i think he got frustrated and tried to make something out of nothing a lot more than he should've.....the beauty is that we kept him healthy, and we got decent field position because they needed to kick it shorter secondly......the offensive line is the most important part of any run game......running backs are almost interchangeable with good offensive lines look at guys like thomas jones, LT, emmitt smith, etc etc...the list goes on and on they have good seasons when they are behind a great offensive line....then after awhile the system changes or the linemen move on and their production drops "experts" blame this on age.......people that know what they are talking about realize that it is in fact the offensive line, the coach, the system, or a combination that causes the decrease in production
	"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd

04-16-2010, 02:52 AM	#3
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others Originally Posted by CantonLegend first........reggie was gameplanned around this year teams stopped kicking deep to him......i remember him having a lot of fair catches this season because punters wouldnt punt deep and give him the room to return it.......i think he got frustrated and tried to make something out of nothing a lot more than he should've.....the beauty is that we kept him healthy, and we got decent field position because they needed to kick it shorter secondly......the offensive line is the most important part of any run game......running backs are almost interchangeable with good offensive lines look at guys like thomas jones, LT, emmitt smith, etc etc...the list goes on and on they have good seasons when they are behind a great offensive line....then after awhile the system changes or the linemen move on and their production drops "experts" blame this on age.......people that know what they are talking about realize that it is in fact the offensive line, the coach, the system, or a combination that causes the decrease in production OK, regardless of this master plan that the world has to make Reggie suck... here's the thing, Great players DO make something out of nothing. Players we keep holding out high hopes for, keep "trying" to make something out of nothing. secondly, the didn't kick deep excuse / theory is typical desperate BS, but hardly true. He wasn't running up for returns. it's the typical rhetoric that viewers recycle every time he get's shut down returning. What I remember is Reggie going down by the first guy on the scene, often by shoestring tackles in most cases. Are we really going to do this... we're going to have a debate based of of excuses? Reggie is towards the bottom of the list on NFL PR's for Fair Catches. and I don't even want to have a debate with you if you have any inclination that Pierre's abilities and his success was due credit to the effectiveness of the offensive line.... Brees, no doubt, but Pierre is all playmaker. If you're theory is true wouldn't Bush be a great RB behind our offensive line? How is it that he self implodes behind our line, yet Pierre is gonna get his yards? Your theories are so full of double standards it's dizzying. those three running backs you mentioned are about as good as it get's for the NFL. they weren't the product of good lines, they are pure playmakers and performed under all circumstances. they simply got older and accumulated injuries.... you don't know THIS!!?? citing Pierre as an average product of his O line and crediting Emmitt, LT's and Jones success on the effectiveness of their O-lines, YET, you're here to defend Reggie Bush makes me wonder how you even see well enough to type with those blinders on?
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194

04-16-2010, 01:18 PM	#4
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others Originally Posted by HintOfLogic OK, regardless of this master plan that the world has to make Reggie suck... here's the thing, Great players DO make something out of nothing. Players we keep holding out high hopes for, keep "trying" to make something out of nothing. secondly, the didn't kick deep excuse / theory is typical desperate BS, but hardly true. He wasn't running up for returns. it's the typical rhetoric that viewers recycle every time he get's shut down returning. What I remember is Reggie going down by the first guy on the scene, often by shoestring tackles in most cases. Are we really going to do this... we're going to have a debate based of of excuses? Reggie is towards the bottom of the list on NFL PR's for Fair Catches. prove it.....but more than that....show how many less times we put him back there compared to guys like lance moore and courtney roby etc.....reggie wasnt our only punt returner this season and I don't even want to have a debate with you if you have any inclination that Pierre's abilities and his success was due credit to the effectiveness of the offensive line.... Brees, no doubt, but Pierre is all playmaker. If you're theory is true wouldn't Bush be a great RB behind our offensive line? How is it that he self implodes behind our line, yet Pierre is gonna get his yards? Your theories are so full of double standards it's dizzying. those three running backs you mentioned are about as good as it get's for the NFL. they weren't the product of good lines, they are pure playmakers and performed under all circumstances. they simply got older and accumulated injuries.... you don't know THIS!!?? citing Pierre as an average product of his O line and crediting Emmitt, LT's and Jones success on the effectiveness of their O-lines, YET, you're here to defend Reggie Bush makes me wonder how you even see well enough to type with those blinders on? lmao.....you have no idea what i said and further more have no idea what you are talking about i defended reggies punt returns.....not his running......however if you want to get into it reggie averaged 5.6 ypc and had 30 less carries than the year before.....but managed only 15 yards less rushing than in'08 oh yea.....and reggie is a 97 speed on madden.....that proves it
	"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd

04-16-2010, 01:56 PM	#5
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others Originally Posted by CantonLegend prove it.....but more than that....show how many less times we put him back there compared to guys like lance moore and courtney roby etc.....reggie wasnt our only punt returner this season lmao.....you have no idea what i said and further more have no idea what you are talking about i defended reggies punt returns.....not his running......however if you want to get into it reggie averaged 5.6 ypc and had 30 less carries than the year before.....but managed only 15 yards less rushing than in'08 oh yea.....and reggie is a 97 speed on madden.....that proves it Here's Reggies "Fair Catches": 2009 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN Nine on the season, tied at #26 fewest in the NFL. And for sh!ts and giggles, why don't you check out where he sits check out his AVG: 2009 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN now, how are you going to further change the subject.... or even dig yourself deeper into excuses. Have no idea what "I'm" talking about? How clever of an argument you've got there.... Oh, where are Lance Moore on Cortney Roby on that list? ... this coming from someone who is going to tell me some of the greatest RB's in NFL's history was result of their O line? I'm going to tell you right now. If you are going to bring "excuses" into an argument to back up a players capabilities or lack of.... it's going nowhere. See, IMAO, I think you sound like a tool repeating typical Reggie hype rhetoric. See, he was "supposed" to be our great PR guy right. Carried all the hype and constant exaggeration (otherwise known as hope). In reality (where I live), he sucks majorly at as a PR guy... plain and simple... and if it wasn't for his major hype, major salary and lack of skill sets to offer otherwise, he wouldn't even be returning punts with the display he's put on. I don't enjoy the fact that he sucks, but I can't bring my self to the brain numbing state of accepting it and even more, defending him based of the premise of excuses. IMAO, you're a tool incapable of thinking for yourself.
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194	Last edited by HintOfLogic; 04-16-2010 at 01:58 PM..

04-16-2010, 02:52 AM	#6
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,049	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others Chill dude and read what I'm saying. Am I writing "lets get rid of Thomas"? No. Am I writing "Bush is better than Thomas"? No. I'm saying I find the OL to be more important. I think a whole lot of RBs could perform very well behind the OL we have if we can just keep it together. Here's another thought.... how about we address getting a real punt return guy. Bush was the worst in the league wasn't he? I start to believe you didn't watch the games. Our blocking on punt return this year was horrible the whole time. The very few times somebody got picked up Bush had decent returns. It would not have mattered if we had Cribbs, Hester or whoever back there. If you have a guy in your face right away you won't get far.
	W.T. Sherman is my favorite General. After all he did order Atlanta to be burned to the ground.

04-16-2010, 02:58 AM	#7
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others Originally Posted by Crusader Chill dude and read what I'm saying. Am I writing "lets get rid of Thomas"? No. Am I writing "Bush is better than Thomas"? No. I'm saying I find the OL to be more important. I think a whole lot of RBs could perform very well behind the OL we have if we can just keep it together. I start to believe you didn't watch the games. Our blocking on punt return this year was horrible the whole time. The very few times somebody got picked up Bush had decent returns. It would not have mattered if we had Cribbs, Hester or whoever back there. If you have a guy in your face right away you won't get far. Was Pierre's success the result of Browns presence? About Bush, all I hear is this: "Everytime Bush had no opposition or an open lane towards the EZ, he did good. When someone came free on him, he couldn't slip a 1 on 1 open field tackle."
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194

04-17-2010, 11:43 AM	#8
dkj527 Rookie Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 4	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others If they let Thomas get away,somebody or somebodys need to be fired,he's the best we've had in awhile.That dude is gonna be awesome.I'm gonna be just sick if he leaves.PAY DA MAN!
dkj527 Rookie Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 4

04-16-2010, 03:50 AM	#9
SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others Guys, in overall production, since he came into the league, compared to other backs, that were NO WHERE NEAR, as high profile as he was coming out of college, Bush has NOT lived up to the hype. Not even close. And this isn't something new from me, I have been on his butt since 07, waiting for him to be a consistent threat. Now, notice the keyword there, "constistent". That's my problem with him, he isn't consistent in his abilities. He also has a string of excuses, when it comes to WHY he hasn't consistently produced. And it always seems to be some mysterious injury, that no one finds out about, until the season is over. I don't mind paying a guy, that you can count on week in, and week out. Drew Brees comes to mind. Does Drew have bad games? Yes, but he has more good, or great ones, than bad. Go back over this past season, and tell me how many good, or great games Reggie had. I guarantee you the number will be small. He's not worth the 8 million, but, it's an uncapped year, and they will pay it. But I guarantee you this, right here and now, if he doesn't live up to that potential this year? He will either have to restructure, or his butt will be gone. Period.
	What's popular is not always right, and what's right is not always popular.....

04-16-2010, 03:58 AM	#10
SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others Oh yeah, and just to be clear on what I consider consistency, is 100 yard games on the ground. I think, I can count on one hand, how many of those Reggie has had in his entire career. How many times has Reggie ran for more than a hundred yard games IN A ROW? Never, that I remember. Now, if what they say is true, and in the West Coast Offense, the pass opens up the run, then why is Drew throwing for what 300, 400 yards, where as Bush is only gaining 50 or 60 on the ground. Now, before you say that he shares the load with other RBs, yes, I know, but that being true, then that means Reggie is NOT a "feature" back, which means he certainly doesn't deserve more money than a Ray Rice, or a Thomas Jones. That's MY point. He wants 8 million a year? For what? Punt returns? Get serious gentlemen....
	What's popular is not always right, and what's right is not always popular.....

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