New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others

04-16-2010, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

first........reggie was gameplanned around this year

teams stopped kicking deep to him......i remember him having a lot of fair catches this season because punters wouldnt punt deep and give him the room to return it.......i think he got frustrated and tried to make something out of nothing a lot more than he should've.....the beauty is that we kept him healthy, and we got decent field position because they needed to kick it shorter

secondly......the offensive line is the most important part of any run game......running backs are almost interchangeable with good offensive lines

look at guys like thomas jones, LT, emmitt smith, etc etc...the list goes on and on

they have good seasons when they are behind a great offensive line....then after awhile the system changes or the linemen move on and their production drops

"experts" blame this on age.......people that know what they are talking about realize that it is in fact the offensive line, the coach, the system, or a combination that causes the decrease in production

OK, regardless of this master plan that the world has to make Reggie suck... here's the thing, Great players DO make something out of nothing. Players we keep holding out high hopes for, keep "trying" to make something out of nothing.

secondly, the didn't kick deep excuse / theory is typical desperate BS, but hardly true. He wasn't running up for returns. it's the typical rhetoric that viewers recycle every time he get's shut down returning.

What I remember is Reggie going down by the first guy on the scene, often by shoestring tackles in most cases. Are we really going to do this... we're going to have a debate based of of excuses?

Reggie is towards the bottom of the list on NFL PR's for Fair Catches.

and I don't even want to have a debate with you if you have any inclination that Pierre's abilities and his success was due credit to the effectiveness of the offensive line.... Brees, no doubt, but Pierre is all playmaker.

If you're theory is true wouldn't Bush be a great RB behind our offensive line? How is it that he self implodes behind our line, yet Pierre is gonna get his yards? Your theories are so full of double standards it's dizzying.

those three running backs you mentioned are about as good as it get's for the NFL. they weren't the product of good lines, they are pure playmakers and performed under all circumstances. they simply got older and accumulated injuries.... you don't know THIS!!??

citing Pierre as an average product of his O line and crediting Emmitt, LT's and Jones success on the effectiveness of their O-lines, YET, you're here to defend Reggie Bush makes me wonder how you even see well enough to type with those blinders on?

HintOfLogic · 04-16-2010, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by Crusader

Chill dude and read what I'm saying. Am I writing "lets get rid of Thomas"? No. Am I writing "Bush is better than Thomas"? No. I'm saying I find the OL to be more important. I think a whole lot of RBs could perform very well behind the OL we have if we can just keep it together.

I start to believe you didn't watch the games. Our blocking on punt return this year was horrible the whole time. The very few times somebody got picked up Bush had decent returns. It would not have mattered if we had Cribbs, Hester or whoever back there. If you have a guy in your face right away you won't get far.

Was Pierre's success the result of Browns presence?

About Bush, all I hear is this: "Everytime Bush had no opposition or an open lane towards the EZ, he did good. When someone came free on him, he couldn't slip a 1 on 1 open field tackle."

Saint_LB · 04-16-2010, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by HintOfLogic

It's a simple fact of favoritism, and seeing what you want to see.

Go look in the mirror and repeat the quoted line above...

SaintPauly · 04-16-2010, 04:50 AM

Guys, in overall production, since he came into the league, compared to other backs, that were NO WHERE NEAR, as high profile as he was coming out of college, Bush has NOT lived up to the hype. Not even close. And this isn't something new from me, I have been on his butt since 07, waiting for him to be a consistent threat. Now, notice the keyword there, "constistent". That's my problem with him, he isn't consistent in his abilities. He also has a string of excuses, when it comes to WHY he hasn't consistently produced. And it always seems to be some mysterious injury, that no one finds out about, until the season is over.

I don't mind paying a guy, that you can count on week in, and week out. Drew Brees comes to mind. Does Drew have bad games? Yes, but he has more good, or great ones, than bad. Go back over this past season, and tell me how many good, or great games Reggie had. I guarantee you the number will be small. He's not worth the 8 million, but, it's an uncapped year, and they will pay it. But I guarantee you this, right here and now, if he doesn't live up to that potential this year? He will either have to restructure, or his butt will be gone. Period.

SaintPauly · 04-16-2010, 04:58 AM

Oh yeah, and just to be clear on what I consider consistency, is 100 yard games on the ground. I think, I can count on one hand, how many of those Reggie has had in his entire career. How many times has Reggie ran for more than a hundred yard games IN A ROW? Never, that I remember.

Now, if what they say is true, and in the West Coast Offense, the pass opens up the run, then why is Drew throwing for what 300, 400 yards, where as Bush is only gaining 50 or 60 on the ground. Now, before you say that he shares the load with other RBs, yes, I know, but that being true, then that means Reggie is NOT a "feature" back, which means he certainly doesn't deserve more money than a Ray Rice, or a Thomas Jones.

That's MY point. He wants 8 million a year? For what? Punt returns? Get serious gentlemen....

Saint_LB · 04-16-2010, 05:13 AM

Apparently he's convinced the right people. I think if you go back and look at Reggie's all-purpose yards you'll find him consitently over 100 when healthy. If you get a hundred plus by doing a lot of things good, to me it is at least as good as someone who gets that by just doing one thing over and over.

I think most people just miss-out on Reggie's value...can't see it for whatever reason. All I know is that I told my sister-in-law a few years back that if we didn't get Reggie when we had the opportunity that I would no longer be a Saints fan.

You can say what you want, but here it is about 3 years later and we now have a Lombardi and that is something I thought I'd never see. Am I glad that Benson listened to me and went out and got Reggie? Do I have to answer that?

SaintPauly · 04-16-2010, 05:22 AM

I hear ya LB, but what about Brees? I think for the most part, that Lombardi should have his freaking name on it. Game plans are game plans, and good strategy is a must, but Brees finds the open man, and gets them the ball. That makes him the MVP, and keeps him the MVP.

As far as Reggie goes, as a "featured" back, in a West Coast system, I can remember many great offensive teams, that had exceptional RBs, doing basically the same things as Reggie only better. Marshall Faulk, Brian Westbrook, hell even Julius Jones when he was in Dallas, all had similar job descriptions, but ALL have had better success than Reggie. What I'm saying is that he doesn't deserve this payday. And as far as PT goes, well, I think we all remember that touchdown he scored in the superbowl.... I can't remember the one Reggie scored off hand.....

Saint_LB · 04-16-2010, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by saintpaul25

I hear ya LB, but what about Brees? I think for the most part, that Lombardi should have his freaking name on it. Game plans are game plans, and good strategy is a must, but Brees finds the open man, and gets them the ball. That makes him the MVP, and keeps him the MVP.

As far as Reggie goes, as a "featured" back, in a West Coast system, I can remember many great offensive teams, that had exceptional RBs, doing basically the same things as Reggie only better. Marshall Faulk, Brian Westbrook, hell even Julius Jones when he was in Dallas, all had similar job descriptions, but ALL have had better success than Reggie. What I'm saying is that he doesn't deserve this payday. And as far as PT goes, well, I think we all remember that touchdown he scored in the superbowl.... I can't remember the one Reggie scored off hand.....

No argument from me about Brees...or Pt, for that matter. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Reggie was part of the greatest gumbo recipe ever for Saints fans. He was kinda like the shrimp. Drew was the rue...PT the crab meat...Colston was the okra...etc. You get what I'm driving at, right?

You see, I don't care how much Reggie makes. I believe that he brings a certain "star" quality to a team that never had one before. I admit that he has had a little trouble living-up to it, but then I remember some of his highlights and realize he has done things that no Saint has ever done before. He just doesn't do them every play like some people expect him to do.

In closing I reiterate. I'm happy with exactly what happened and don't care how much they make or made in the past or will in the future. I'm just happy Reggie is a Saint...and that's mostly the topic (or what it veered to...I hope that wasn't my fault...lol) and why I didn't comment on the others.

HintOfLogic · 04-16-2010, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by Saint_LB

I think most people just miss-out on Reggie's value...can't see it for whatever reason. All I know is that I told my sister-in-law a few years back that if we didn't get Reggie when we had the opportunity that I would no longer be a Saints fan.

You can say what you want, but here it is about 3 years later and we now have a Lombardi and that is something I thought I'd never see. Am I glad that Benson listened to me and went out and got Reggie? Do I have to answer that?

thanks for clarifying everything.....

That first paragraph says it all... like I've said most fans have just as much pride wrapped up in Reggie as the Saints have money. Logical arguments will never be had.

As far as Benson.... I didn't know you had that much influence over him... shucks, I'd have been telling you what you want to hear had I known. But then again it was Payton and Loomis going out and getting him, Benson just handed the blank check.

Saint_LB · 04-16-2010, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by HintOfLogic

, Benson just handed the blank check.

...and that should count for nothing, right.

04-16-2010, 03:52 AM	#11
Threaded by HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194 Rating: (0 votes - average) Originally Posted by CantonLegend first........reggie was gameplanned around this year teams stopped kicking deep to him......i remember him having a lot of fair catches this season because punters wouldnt punt deep and give him the room to return it.......i think he got frustrated and tried to make something out of nothing a lot more than he should've.....the beauty is that we kept him healthy, and we got decent field position because they needed to kick it shorter secondly......the offensive line is the most important part of any run game......running backs are almost interchangeable with good offensive lines look at guys like thomas jones, LT, emmitt smith, etc etc...the list goes on and on they have good seasons when they are behind a great offensive line....then after awhile the system changes or the linemen move on and their production drops "experts" blame this on age.......people that know what they are talking about realize that it is in fact the offensive line, the coach, the system, or a combination that causes the decrease in production OK, regardless of this master plan that the world has to make Reggie suck... here's the thing, Great players DO make something out of nothing. Players we keep holding out high hopes for, keep "trying" to make something out of nothing. secondly, the didn't kick deep excuse / theory is typical desperate BS, but hardly true. He wasn't running up for returns. it's the typical rhetoric that viewers recycle every time he get's shut down returning. What I remember is Reggie going down by the first guy on the scene, often by shoestring tackles in most cases. Are we really going to do this... we're going to have a debate based of of excuses? Reggie is towards the bottom of the list on NFL PR's for Fair Catches. and I don't even want to have a debate with you if you have any inclination that Pierre's abilities and his success was due credit to the effectiveness of the offensive line.... Brees, no doubt, but Pierre is all playmaker. If you're theory is true wouldn't Bush be a great RB behind our offensive line? How is it that he self implodes behind our line, yet Pierre is gonna get his yards? Your theories are so full of double standards it's dizzying. those three running backs you mentioned are about as good as it get's for the NFL. they weren't the product of good lines, they are pure playmakers and performed under all circumstances. they simply got older and accumulated injuries.... you don't know THIS!!?? citing Pierre as an average product of his O line and crediting Emmitt, LT's and Jones success on the effectiveness of their O-lines, YET, you're here to defend Reggie Bush makes me wonder how you even see well enough to type with those blinders on?
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04-16-2010, 03:58 AM	#12
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others Originally Posted by Crusader Chill dude and read what I'm saying. Am I writing "lets get rid of Thomas"? No. Am I writing "Bush is better than Thomas"? No. I'm saying I find the OL to be more important. I think a whole lot of RBs could perform very well behind the OL we have if we can just keep it together. I start to believe you didn't watch the games. Our blocking on punt return this year was horrible the whole time. The very few times somebody got picked up Bush had decent returns. It would not have mattered if we had Cribbs, Hester or whoever back there. If you have a guy in your face right away you won't get far. Was Pierre's success the result of Browns presence? About Bush, all I hear is this: "Everytime Bush had no opposition or an open lane towards the EZ, he did good. When someone came free on him, he couldn't slip a 1 on 1 open field tackle."
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194

04-16-2010, 04:09 AM	#13
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others Originally Posted by HintOfLogic It's a simple fact of favoritism, and seeing what you want to see. Go look in the mirror and repeat the quoted line above...
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894

04-16-2010, 04:50 AM	#14
SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others Guys, in overall production, since he came into the league, compared to other backs, that were NO WHERE NEAR, as high profile as he was coming out of college, Bush has NOT lived up to the hype. Not even close. And this isn't something new from me, I have been on his butt since 07, waiting for him to be a consistent threat. Now, notice the keyword there, "constistent". That's my problem with him, he isn't consistent in his abilities. He also has a string of excuses, when it comes to WHY he hasn't consistently produced. And it always seems to be some mysterious injury, that no one finds out about, until the season is over. I don't mind paying a guy, that you can count on week in, and week out. Drew Brees comes to mind. Does Drew have bad games? Yes, but he has more good, or great ones, than bad. Go back over this past season, and tell me how many good, or great games Reggie had. I guarantee you the number will be small. He's not worth the 8 million, but, it's an uncapped year, and they will pay it. But I guarantee you this, right here and now, if he doesn't live up to that potential this year? He will either have to restructure, or his butt will be gone. Period.
	What's popular is not always right, and what's right is not always popular.....

04-16-2010, 04:58 AM	#15
SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others Oh yeah, and just to be clear on what I consider consistency, is 100 yard games on the ground. I think, I can count on one hand, how many of those Reggie has had in his entire career. How many times has Reggie ran for more than a hundred yard games IN A ROW? Never, that I remember. Now, if what they say is true, and in the West Coast Offense, the pass opens up the run, then why is Drew throwing for what 300, 400 yards, where as Bush is only gaining 50 or 60 on the ground. Now, before you say that he shares the load with other RBs, yes, I know, but that being true, then that means Reggie is NOT a "feature" back, which means he certainly doesn't deserve more money than a Ray Rice, or a Thomas Jones. That's MY point. He wants 8 million a year? For what? Punt returns? Get serious gentlemen....
	What's popular is not always right, and what's right is not always popular.....

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04-16-2010, 05:13 AM	#16
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others Apparently he's convinced the right people. I think if you go back and look at Reggie's all-purpose yards you'll find him consitently over 100 when healthy. If you get a hundred plus by doing a lot of things good, to me it is at least as good as someone who gets that by just doing one thing over and over. I think most people just miss-out on Reggie's value...can't see it for whatever reason. All I know is that I told my sister-in-law a few years back that if we didn't get Reggie when we had the opportunity that I would no longer be a Saints fan. You can say what you want, but here it is about 3 years later and we now have a Lombardi and that is something I thought I'd never see. Am I glad that Benson listened to me and went out and got Reggie? Do I have to answer that?
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right!

04-16-2010, 05:22 AM	#17
SaintPauly Senior Citizen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gulfport, MS Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 1	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others I hear ya LB, but what about Brees? I think for the most part, that Lombardi should have his freaking name on it. Game plans are game plans, and good strategy is a must, but Brees finds the open man, and gets them the ball. That makes him the MVP, and keeps him the MVP. As far as Reggie goes, as a "featured" back, in a West Coast system, I can remember many great offensive teams, that had exceptional RBs, doing basically the same things as Reggie only better. Marshall Faulk, Brian Westbrook, hell even Julius Jones when he was in Dallas, all had similar job descriptions, but ALL have had better success than Reggie. What I'm saying is that he doesn't deserve this payday. And as far as PT goes, well, I think we all remember that touchdown he scored in the superbowl.... I can't remember the one Reggie scored off hand.....
	What's popular is not always right, and what's right is not always popular.....

04-16-2010, 05:32 AM	#18
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others Originally Posted by saintpaul25 I hear ya LB, but what about Brees? I think for the most part, that Lombardi should have his freaking name on it. Game plans are game plans, and good strategy is a must, but Brees finds the open man, and gets them the ball. That makes him the MVP, and keeps him the MVP. As far as Reggie goes, as a "featured" back, in a West Coast system, I can remember many great offensive teams, that had exceptional RBs, doing basically the same things as Reggie only better. Marshall Faulk, Brian Westbrook, hell even Julius Jones when he was in Dallas, all had similar job descriptions, but ALL have had better success than Reggie. What I'm saying is that he doesn't deserve this payday. And as far as PT goes, well, I think we all remember that touchdown he scored in the superbowl.... I can't remember the one Reggie scored off hand..... No argument from me about Brees...or Pt, for that matter. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Reggie was part of the greatest gumbo recipe ever for Saints fans. He was kinda like the shrimp. Drew was the rue...PT the crab meat...Colston was the okra...etc. You get what I'm driving at, right? You see, I don't care how much Reggie makes. I believe that he brings a certain "star" quality to a team that never had one before. I admit that he has had a little trouble living-up to it, but then I remember some of his highlights and realize he has done things that no Saint has ever done before. He just doesn't do them every play like some people expect him to do. In closing I reiterate. I'm happy with exactly what happened and don't care how much they make or made in the past or will in the future. I'm just happy Reggie is a Saint...and that's mostly the topic (or what it veered to...I hope that wasn't my fault...lol) and why I didn't comment on the others.
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right! Last edited by Saint_LB; 04-16-2010 at 05:34 AM..

04-16-2010, 05:34 AM	#19
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others Originally Posted by Saint_LB I think most people just miss-out on Reggie's value...can't see it for whatever reason. All I know is that I told my sister-in-law a few years back that if we didn't get Reggie when we had the opportunity that I would no longer be a Saints fan. You can say what you want, but here it is about 3 years later and we now have a Lombardi and that is something I thought I'd never see. Am I glad that Benson listened to me and went out and got Reggie? Do I have to answer that? thanks for clarifying everything..... That first paragraph says it all... like I've said most fans have just as much pride wrapped up in Reggie as the Saints have money. Logical arguments will never be had. As far as Benson.... I didn't know you had that much influence over him... shucks, I'd have been telling you what you want to hear had I known. But then again it was Payton and Loomis going out and getting him, Benson just handed the blank check.
HintOfLogic 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 194

04-16-2010, 05:36 AM	#20
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Re: New Orleans Saints uncertain about decisions of Pierre Thomas, Jahri Evans, others Originally Posted by HintOfLogic , Benson just handed the blank check. ...and that should count for nothing, right.
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894