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The Elephant in the room.....

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by TopCow The players' use of an NFL game with a captive audience to air their salary agenda is a violation of ethics, plain and simple. People shell out bucks to be entertained, not to be manipulated into ...

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Old 09-12-2010, 10:37 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by TopCow View Post
The players' use of an NFL game with a captive audience to air their salary agenda is a violation of ethics, plain and simple. People shell out bucks to be entertained, not to be manipulated into rubber stamping players' debatable plea for a more favorable contract. It makes no difference whether the players' cause has merit or not. The fact that they are using an entertainment forum to plead their personal cause is way out of line.

A gentleman posted on this thread previously that he is a teacher. Awesome. If you, sir, were to use your classroom as a forum to air your personal grievances or causes, you should rightly expect to get your south side chewed by your school administrators. Or be fired. And rightfully so. You are being paid to teach, not to appeal for support of your personal causes AT WORK. The same is true for all of us. And the same is true for NFL players. Fans are paying to be entertained by them, not to support their quest for more money. Or whatever they want more of. If players want better contracts, great. They should go seek them on their own time. But they should not use an NFL game that people pay to see as a forum to explicitly forward their cause.

I don't care about your labor disputes. And when I pay money for you to do a job, I do not expect you to maneuver me into a position that favors your personal causes. It is unethical and it pizzes me off. If it continues, I will seek another mode of entertainment.
I think that was the point though top. The players KNOW, that without them, the owners are dead in the water. Like it or not, pay or no pay, they have the upper hand. Players get locked out, owners get scrubs, fans don't watch, players win. That's just the way it is.
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Old 09-12-2010, 10:59 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by saintpaul25 View Post
I think that was the point though top. The players KNOW, that without them, the owners are dead in the water. Like it or not, pay or no pay, they have the upper hand. Players get locked out, owners get scrubs, fans don't watch, players win. That's just the way it is.
You may be right for many people, but not for me. If players press this agenda to the point of a lockout, I would drop NFL football altogether. I don't need its addictive rush that badly.
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Old 09-12-2010, 11:06 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by TopCow View Post
You may be right for many people, but not for me. If players press this agenda to the point of a lockout, I would drop NFL football altogether. I don't need its addictive rush that badly.
Ok, if the lock out occurs, it will be the owners that do it, not the players. Basically, if I understand it all correctly, if the players don't agree, to the new bargaining agreement, by a certain date, then the owners will lock them out. Not a strike persay. A forced strike is more like it.
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Old 09-12-2010, 11:20 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by spkb25 View Post
Private VS Public refers to (and I know you know this) independent of the Gov, or run by the gov.

The main difference is choice- people can choose to spend the money for this product (the NFL). If they do not want their product they won't buy it.

The Government forces you to buy their product. There is no choice.

Your other point though Saint Paul- I don't know what is going to happen if they lock out. They will all lose money- it will not be good for anyone
Another point on this I want to bring up is, exactly what you said: private money. With free agency, each player could be considered, a business to themselves. We all shout from the rooftops about salary caps, and how that "balances" the competitive scales, and makes it to where small market teams, such as the Saints, can have a chance to win championships. We blast owners like Jerry Jones, and Daniel Snyder, for trying to spend their "private money", to buy players, that small market teams cannot, to win championships. Now, if I read something wrong into your views on this issue, i apologize, but it seems to me, that you aren't a fan of the cap. You believe, in your own words, that a man should be allowed to spend his private money, as he sees fit, right? Then in that mindframe, it seems to me, that you would also have to believe, that owners should be allowed to spend as much of THEIR MONEY, as they want, to buy as many players as they want. That is the impression you are giving.

What's popular is not always right, and what's right is not always popular.....
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Old 09-12-2010, 11:31 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by spkb25 View Post
If this was really the case the Saints would have folded a long time ago- they didn't win a playoff game for more than 30 years of their existence.

I do agree that when the quality of their product is suffering they do look to improve it- as a business you have to, but that has nothing to do with their right to pay their employees. They don't listen to you on that. Not at all. That was what this was about too- whether they have the right to pay players as they see fit- and whether the players are worth that.
Ok then. So you don't agree with the salary cap.

"That was what this was about too- whether they have the right to pay players as they see fit- and whether the players are worth that."

If an owner has the right to decide what a player is worth, and not the player, then the price has to be able to go both ways right? If Jerry Jones decides that he wants to pay Drew Brees 20 million dollars more, than the Saints have to offer, then he should be able to do that right? It's his money. It's his "private" money.

What's popular is not always right, and what's right is not always popular.....

Last edited by SaintPauly; 09-12-2010 at 11:37 PM..
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:09 AM   #36
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:08 AM   #37
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The demonstrations are a turnoff to me. They look childish at best, and thuggish at worst. Pay disputes are a private matter, and should be kept private. As a fan, I don't want to be pulled into this fight and forced to choose sides. If you want to be a pro football player, play ball! If you want to be a politician, hang up your cleats and go for it.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:13 AM   #38
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I have no problem with a players organization showing solidarity in the face of the couch potato nation on the most watched football game in a long time. Good for them.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:37 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by spkb25 View Post
No Problem man. It is okay for us to think differently, but one thing we agree on- GEAUX SAINTS!!!!
yep, on that theres no need for debate , TWO DAT!!!! brother.
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:55 AM   #40
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What we have is millionaire players complaining to their billionaire owners, and vice-versa. At the end of the day any increase in money on either side is passed down to you and me, not absorbed by the owners. When Nike or whoever pays an athlete a crazy check for endorsements the costs are trickled down to you and me in the price tag of their products. It's the fans who always get the shaft. We should be the ones holding our fingers up in solidarity. I love football but the salaries have become gross, for everyone involved.

The QB is the highest paid position due to the fact that they are the most vulnerable. However, there are increasing rules protecting the quarterback and their salaries continue to grow (see Tom Brady's recent deal). My opinion, for every rule that is added to protect a player, their salaries are reduced. If the logic is increased pay due to danger effect then reduced pay for less danger makes sense.

Is my suggestion silly, of course. But it just goes to show how what is going on in the NFL is not logically sound.

I think the NFL is not unlike the real estate market was, artificially inflated. Every bubble pops. The NFL is not exempt from the laws of economics.

Probably took that to a different level than intended but had to vent.

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