The Elephant in the room.....

504state · 09-10-2010, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by FireVenturi

The Nfl is a business and just like any other union, they stick together. The players get a lot of $h!t from fans when the owners make more than 10 times what the players do to sit in the box!

Just sayin'

The owners also assume all the finacial risks and liabilites too though, just like any other business.

skymike · 09-10-2010, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by saintpaul25

What did everyone think about the "protest", ... I heard one fan say on the radio this morning, that they are all a bunch of "rich guys, trying to act like they are unionized dock workers. with unemployment reaching the 20 percent mark in this country, it's really sad to see this going on."....

very nice post, and very interesting thread, Pauly. not that anyone's posting needs my approval...

Now remember, Im the one here who thinks an 18 game schedule would be too cruel for the players. Everyone else disagrees with my point, saying, it doesnt matter because they make a zillion dollars, so their feelings, bones, and general humanity dont matter.

-- but I question whether owners are really cleaning up as much as we think. Unless you've ever started a business with your own money, I wonder if you understand their situation. They have an astronomical payroll to make, which only seems to grow, & fans who have no qualms about somebody else spending their money.

They must be operating tightly, or else they wouldnt have to move to other cities, just to get a stadium which can generate enough income to support them. This is why they have to invent PSL's, and longer seasons, along with 30 dollar parking and 8 dollar beer.

Meanwhile you and me are screaming at them to spend $100 million on idiots like Albert Haynesworth because, after all their money grew on a tree. It came from somewhere, I am sure.

I could be dead wrong, and the owners could all be "lying, greedy, white, capitalists." Personally, I dont resent the rich, and I think someone who sticks their neck out and invests their own money in something has a right to make a profit. I know Tom Benson didnt get money from a genie. He started out sweeping floors, and probably did without a few things as a kid. Why shouldnt he make a profit? He has aching bones too.

Im not sure, but I believe pro athletes are the only people in society who get both the security of a collective agreement, along with the icing on the cake of individual deals, signing bonuses, and endorsements. And they should make money, theyre risking their bones, and future health.

Here's what I know. Every time another batch of players demands a billion jillion dollars, the tickets go up, along with parking, beer, merchandise, and they start inventing new fees, such as the PSL. This cant be good for the New Orleans's and Green Bays of the league.

Oh, and this is also why the coin toss, first down marker, goal post, replay, and the referee's whistle will all soon need sponsors. "This penalty is brought to you by Roto-Rooter." We already stop the game just to play extra commercials.

At some point enough has to be enough. If you like having football, I think you would be for a return to sanity.

These players are too young to make that kind of money anyway... How many of them, like lottery winners, end up broke? I say take a big chunk of that money they would spend on jewelry, ridiculous cars, ridiculous houses, strippers, toys, and entourages, and defer it into retirement accounts, pensions, education for their kids, and healthcare. Encourage them to defer their pay toward the end of their contract and keep that money away from leeching family members, leeching friends, and gold digging whores. A couple of thousand for a reversible vasectomy, would save 100 million in child support, for a kid whos' mother was earning $50 a "date" before she met her goldmine. Then I have to pay more for my seat. His whore becomes my whore.

If we could somehow "help me help you" for these young men, we'd be helping ourselves also.

Ill tell you something else too. The less you and me think about our favorite pastime as a "business," the better it is for both the players and owners. It is in their best interest for us to think about yards and points, and not dollars and contracts.

Euphoria · 09-10-2010, 08:35 PM

Protest? I don't know if it was a protest but just showing support as players.

homerj07 · 09-10-2010, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by C17-BING

There was a REALLY interesting article back in the 90's done by Sport Illustrated on "The Worth of Professional Athlete's" (I'll try and find it), but at the end of the day ... They aren't paid NEARLY what they bring in.

Personally, I understand the comments about policemen, firefighters, military etc. .... I'm in the Air Force, but that's a CHOICE I made (all of us did knowing what we'd be paid) ... Just like all of you made a choice to go to the Saints game (or any other sports venue) and feed the hungry cash cow ... Life is about CHOICES. I'm not implying that anyone here was *****ing, but it doesn't change the fact that you can't complain about the choices you made in life ... Last time I checked America was a free nation (thanks to Military people and GREAT American's) ... But, we all do what we do knowing that we won't get rich from it --- It's a duty that we gladly give.

In essence, these guys bring in MILLIONS of dollars and get paid a fraction of what they bring in, so who cares if they stick together -- they should. I would do it and so would you ...

I don't buy that.

You protect our country - how much is that worth? (priceless I say)

I teach high school & have for 20 years - what is that worth?

Cops prtoect us, firemen save us & our stuff, nurses take care of us, doctors work on us, etc. etc.

Yes we do make choices. I am not teaching to make money. You aren't serving our country to become rich.....

BUT!!!!

Greed is greed. Yes the owners are absolute ck skers!!! But the players are greedy also.

If they both would be willing to REDUCE what they make & allow prices to go to a level that an everyday guy can more easily afford, talk to me then.

GREED is what is destroying this county. Simple & easy.

(sorry for the rant - I have not seen a raise or step increase in pay in 4 years. I can't strike, not in Florida)

God bless you though. I am amazngly thankful for people such as yourself who are willing to sacrifice all that you do!!

exiled · 09-11-2010, 04:30 AM

i understand that it is hard to get romantic about millionaires vs billionaires but average player in the NFL does not make THAT much especially when you consider the career span is only 4 years.

so solidarity is a terrific thing.

I wish they would bargain for some of these gazillionare owners showing more support for the city taxpayers that bought them there stadiums.

and super stars like brees being front and center only adds to my admiration of the guy.

ScottF · 09-11-2010, 07:18 AM

I always have a hard time siding with the players when this issue comes up. I think more performance based salaries would make it easier to stomach the $200 tickets, $30 parking and $9 beers

subguy · 09-11-2010, 07:38 AM

I also do not have much sympathy for the players in their plight. I understand that their careers are shorter than that of fellow professional athletes in other sports, but they are compensated well for our "entertainment". Why does anyone care how much the NFL or the owner's make if they are the one's making an investment? Yes, I realize the player's allow the investors to make the money, but this is kind of how it is in any career or job. Some people run the risk and some people help the risk takers make their money and in turn are compensated for making the risk takers the money. While I do not begrudge anyone the ability to earn, ultimately the cost of the end product increases to the consumer as it does with any good or service provided when there is an increase in the raw cost of that product.

neugey · 09-11-2010, 07:51 AM

I think that if they were trying to send a message to the owners, they were holding up the wrong finger.

Saint_LB · 09-11-2010, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by C17-BING

There was a REALLY interesting article back in the 90's done by Sport Illustrated on "The Worth of Professional Athlete's" (I'll try and find it), but at the end of the day ... They aren't paid NEARLY what they bring in.

Personally, I understand the comments about policemen, firefighters, military etc. .... I'm in the Air Force, but that's a CHOICE I made (all of us did knowing what we'd be paid) ... Just like all of you made a choice to go to the Saints game (or any other sports venue) and feed the hungry cash cow ... Life is about CHOICES. I'm not implying that anyone here was *****ing, but it doesn't change the fact that you can't complain about the choices you made in life ... Last time I checked America was a free nation (thanks to Military people and GREAT American's) ... But, we all do what we do knowing that we won't get rich from it --- It's a duty that we gladly give.

In essence, these guys bring in MILLIONS of dollars and get paid a fraction of what they bring in, so who cares if they stick together -- they should. I would do it and so would you ...

You mean all I had to do was choose to be an NFL QB and I coulda been one? I want a mully!

SapperSaint · 09-11-2010, 09:14 AM

I use to feel like you do SaintPaul. Here is the way I look at it.

I am a Military service member. As a Soldier, I know there are Soldiers are better trained than I am. Such as, Special Forces, Seals, Rangers and Delta Force; just to name a few. I wont say they are a better Soldier than I am but they are more trained and the best at what they do. They do get special pay for being elite.

Now, do the Pro sports guys deserve 16 million dollars a year?

Well, if you look at these couple of factors.....yes, I think they do.
1. Pro sports is a commercial business. Gatoraid, Poweraid, Shaving companies, Banks; you name it, all get money (in the end) everytime Payton Manning drinks their drink, shaves with "this razor" or puts his money in "this bank". Hell, I bought the new Gillette Pro Glide razor, just because it had the New Orleans Saints Fluer on it.

2. The owners make unknown (to me) amounts of money from those sponsers mentioned above. And all the owner has to do is put a advertisement sign up. The Dome is encircled with them.

3. Now for the players. Could these guys have gone on to become cancer research doctors? I highly doubt it. After 20 years of Military serve I will have made roughly $1, 300,000.00. Not encluding my retirement pay.
I say that to say this. If Anthony Hargrove were to have a career ending injury what does he have to fall back on? Now I know you may be thinking, "That is the choice he made for a career and he just has to deal with it." Well, didn't we as fan, when these players were in high school and college "Demand the best out of these players?". I know I did. I do from my daughter in softball.

Look at how some of look at Reggie. We want Reggie to perform at his best and to perform for the money he is making. Can that happen???? Probubly not.

I am getting off topic a little. Anyway, We as fans expect our team to get the best players. And these guys are the best. How many kids say they want to be a Pro football player, Basketball player or Baseball player? Darn near every one of them. My daughter wants to play for the Team USA Softball team. Will she reach it? I hope, but I doubt it.

These players put their lives on the line, to a certain degree. If their Pro careers are cut dramaticly short (1-2 years of playing time) due to an injury They have to start their life over. Find a job and they go into obscurity and are forgotten about. Even by other players and most of all, the NFL Corperation. (Which also makes BooKoo Billions off these players)

I know, I know. That is the chance these guys take. Right? Well, shouldn't they be compensated if the unthinkable happens? IMO, yes. I will tell you why.

4. If a I were to die as a Soldier. My wife and kids get insurance money, my retirement; and as a National Guard member; my wife can draw my monthly pay until she dies. As long as she remains a single widow.

Now, I volunteered to serve the Nation of ours. I wasn't forced. But do I or any other Soldier really deserve to be taken care of if I am seriously hurt or killed? IMO, hell yes! I and every other service member provide a service to the people of not only this Nation but other Nations as well and we should be taken care of for providing that service.

But are Pro athlete worth more than us? On a whole, no. But after they are exploted and have made billions of dollors for owners, major companies, sports agents and whoever else you want to add to that list. Shouldn't they get something in return?

Lets face it. The Dome doesn't get filled because people like help Tom Benson or any of the other sponsers make money. It gets fill because of Drew, Reggie, Vilma, Tracy, Darren, Vilma, Will, PT and the other players. Don't they desreve some of that money?

Just my thoughts on it. Hell, I maybe wrong.

09-10-2010, 07:25 PM	#11
504state Banned Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 252	Originally Posted by FireVenturi The Nfl is a business and just like any other union, they stick together. The players get a lot of $h!t from fans when the owners make more than 10 times what the players do to sit in the box! Just sayin' The owners also assume all the finacial risks and liabilites too though, just like any other business.
504state Banned Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 252

09-10-2010, 08:13 PM	#12
skymike E. Side Cholo Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Barrio, H-town Posts: 6,089	Originally Posted by saintpaul25 What did everyone think about the "protest", ... I heard one fan say on the radio this morning, that they are all a bunch of "rich guys, trying to act like they are unionized dock workers. with unemployment reaching the 20 percent mark in this country, it's really sad to see this going on.".... very nice post, and very interesting thread, Pauly. not that anyone's posting needs my approval... Now remember, Im the one here who thinks an 18 game schedule would be too cruel for the players. Everyone else disagrees with my point, saying, it doesnt matter because they make a zillion dollars, so their feelings, bones, and general humanity dont matter. -- but I question whether owners are really cleaning up as much as we think. Unless you've ever started a business with your own money, I wonder if you understand their situation. They have an astronomical payroll to make, which only seems to grow, & fans who have no qualms about somebody else spending their money. They must be operating tightly, or else they wouldnt have to move to other cities, just to get a stadium which can generate enough income to support them. This is why they have to invent PSL's, and longer seasons, along with 30 dollar parking and 8 dollar beer. Meanwhile you and me are screaming at them to spend $100 million on idiots like Albert Haynesworth because, after all their money grew on a tree. It came from somewhere, I am sure. I could be dead wrong, and the owners could all be "lying, greedy, white, capitalists." Personally, I dont resent the rich, and I think someone who sticks their neck out and invests their own money in something has a right to make a profit. I know Tom Benson didnt get money from a genie. He started out sweeping floors, and probably did without a few things as a kid. Why shouldnt he make a profit? He has aching bones too. Im not sure, but I believe pro athletes are the only people in society who get both the security of a collective agreement, along with the icing on the cake of individual deals, signing bonuses, and endorsements. And they should make money, theyre risking their bones, and future health. Here's what I know. Every time another batch of players demands a billion jillion dollars, the tickets go up, along with parking, beer, merchandise, and they start inventing new fees, such as the PSL. This cant be good for the New Orleans's and Green Bays of the league. Oh, and this is also why the coin toss, first down marker, goal post, replay, and the referee's whistle will all soon need sponsors. "This penalty is brought to you by Roto-Rooter." We already stop the game just to play extra commercials. At some point enough has to be enough. If you like having football, I think you would be for a return to sanity. These players are too young to make that kind of money anyway... How many of them, like lottery winners, end up broke? I say take a big chunk of that money they would spend on jewelry, ridiculous cars, ridiculous houses, strippers, toys, and entourages, and defer it into retirement accounts, pensions, education for their kids, and healthcare. Encourage them to defer their pay toward the end of their contract and keep that money away from leeching family members, leeching friends, and gold digging whores. A couple of thousand for a reversible vasectomy, would save 100 million in child support, for a kid whos' mother was earning $50 a "date" before she met her goldmine. Then I have to pay more for my seat. His whore becomes my whore. If we could somehow "help me help you" for these young men, we'd be helping ourselves also. Ill tell you something else too. The less you and me think about our favorite pastime as a "business," the better it is for both the players and owners. It is in their best interest for us to think about yards and points, and not dollars and contracts.

09-10-2010, 08:51 PM	#14
homerj07 In Doh We Trust Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 7,027 Blog Entries: 16	Originally Posted by C17-BING There was a REALLY interesting article back in the 90's done by Sport Illustrated on "The Worth of Professional Athlete's" (I'll try and find it), but at the end of the day ... They aren't paid NEARLY what they bring in. Personally, I understand the comments about policemen, firefighters, military etc. .... I'm in the Air Force, but that's a CHOICE I made (all of us did knowing what we'd be paid) ... Just like all of you made a choice to go to the Saints game (or any other sports venue) and feed the hungry cash cow ... Life is about CHOICES. I'm not implying that anyone here was *****ing, but it doesn't change the fact that you can't complain about the choices you made in life ... Last time I checked America was a free nation (thanks to Military people and GREAT American's) ... But, we all do what we do knowing that we won't get rich from it --- It's a duty that we gladly give. In essence, these guys bring in MILLIONS of dollars and get paid a fraction of what they bring in, so who cares if they stick together -- they should. I would do it and so would you ... I don't buy that. You protect our country - how much is that worth? (priceless I say) I teach high school & have for 20 years - what is that worth? Cops prtoect us, firemen save us & our stuff, nurses take care of us, doctors work on us, etc. etc. Yes we do make choices. I am not teaching to make money. You aren't serving our country to become rich..... BUT!!!! Greed is greed. Yes the owners are absolute ck skers!!! But the players are greedy also. If they both would be willing to REDUCE what they make & allow prices to go to a level that an everyday guy can more easily afford, talk to me then. GREED is what is destroying this county. Simple & easy. (sorry for the rant - I have not seen a raise or step increase in pay in 4 years. I can't strike, not in Florida) God bless you though. I am amazngly thankful for people such as yourself who are willing to sacrifice all that you do!!
	I'll see you in Hell Candy Boys!!!

09-11-2010, 08:14 AM	#19
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Originally Posted by C17-BING There was a REALLY interesting article back in the 90's done by Sport Illustrated on "The Worth of Professional Athlete's" (I'll try and find it), but at the end of the day ... They aren't paid NEARLY what they bring in. Personally, I understand the comments about policemen, firefighters, military etc. .... I'm in the Air Force, but that's a CHOICE I made (all of us did knowing what we'd be paid) ... Just like all of you made a choice to go to the Saints game (or any other sports venue) and feed the hungry cash cow ... Life is about CHOICES. I'm not implying that anyone here was *****ing, but it doesn't change the fact that you can't complain about the choices you made in life ... Last time I checked America was a free nation (thanks to Military people and GREAT American's) ... But, we all do what we do knowing that we won't get rich from it --- It's a duty that we gladly give. In essence, these guys bring in MILLIONS of dollars and get paid a fraction of what they bring in, so who cares if they stick together -- they should. I would do it and so would you ... You mean all I had to do was choose to be an NFL QB and I coulda been one? I want a mully!
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894

09-11-2010, 09:14 AM	#20
SapperSaint Pink Nightmare Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 3,028 Blog Entries: 7	I use to feel like you do SaintPaul. Here is the way I look at it. I am a Military service member. As a Soldier, I know there are Soldiers are better trained than I am. Such as, Special Forces, Seals, Rangers and Delta Force; just to name a few. I wont say they are a better Soldier than I am but they are more trained and the best at what they do. They do get special pay for being elite. Now, do the Pro sports guys deserve 16 million dollars a year? Well, if you look at these couple of factors.....yes, I think they do. 1. Pro sports is a commercial business. Gatoraid, Poweraid, Shaving companies, Banks; you name it, all get money (in the end) everytime Payton Manning drinks their drink, shaves with "this razor" or puts his money in "this bank". Hell, I bought the new Gillette Pro Glide razor, just because it had the New Orleans Saints Fluer on it. 2. The owners make unknown (to me) amounts of money from those sponsers mentioned above. And all the owner has to do is put a advertisement sign up. The Dome is encircled with them. 3. Now for the players. Could these guys have gone on to become cancer research doctors? I highly doubt it. After 20 years of Military serve I will have made roughly $1, 300,000.00. Not encluding my retirement pay. I say that to say this. If Anthony Hargrove were to have a career ending injury what does he have to fall back on? Now I know you may be thinking, "That is the choice he made for a career and he just has to deal with it." Well, didn't we as fan, when these players were in high school and college "Demand the best out of these players?". I know I did. I do from my daughter in softball. Look at how some of look at Reggie. We want Reggie to perform at his best and to perform for the money he is making. Can that happen???? Probubly not. I am getting off topic a little. Anyway, We as fans expect our team to get the best players. And these guys are the best. How many kids say they want to be a Pro football player, Basketball player or Baseball player? Darn near every one of them. My daughter wants to play for the Team USA Softball team. Will she reach it? I hope, but I doubt it. These players put their lives on the line, to a certain degree. If their Pro careers are cut dramaticly short (1-2 years of playing time) due to an injury They have to start their life over. Find a job and they go into obscurity and are forgotten about. Even by other players and most of all, the NFL Corperation. (Which also makes BooKoo Billions off these players) I know, I know. That is the chance these guys take. Right? Well, shouldn't they be compensated if the unthinkable happens? IMO, yes. I will tell you why. 4. If a I were to die as a Soldier. My wife and kids get insurance money, my retirement; and as a National Guard member; my wife can draw my monthly pay until she dies. As long as she remains a single widow. Now, I volunteered to serve the Nation of ours. I wasn't forced. But do I or any other Soldier really deserve to be taken care of if I am seriously hurt or killed? IMO, hell yes! I and every other service member provide a service to the people of not only this Nation but other Nations as well and we should be taken care of for providing that service. But are Pro athlete worth more than us? On a whole, no. But after they are exploted and have made billions of dollors for owners, major companies, sports agents and whoever else you want to add to that list. Shouldn't they get something in return? Lets face it. The Dome doesn't get filled because people like help Tom Benson or any of the other sponsers make money. It gets fill because of Drew, Reggie, Vilma, Tracy, Darren, Vilma, Will, PT and the other players. Don't they desreve some of that money? Just my thoughts on it. Hell, I maybe wrong.
	"We are number one. All others are number two, or lower." -The Sphinx http://blackandgold.com/groups/28-ou...tsman-s-corner

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09-10-2010, 08:35 PM	#13
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Protest? I don't know if it was a protest but just showing support as players.

09-11-2010, 04:30 AM	#15
exiled Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: on the road - now based in Austin, TX Posts: 483	i understand that it is hard to get romantic about millionaires vs billionaires but average player in the NFL does not make THAT much especially when you consider the career span is only 4 years. so solidarity is a terrific thing. I wish they would bargain for some of these gazillionare owners showing more support for the city taxpayers that bought them there stadiums. and super stars like brees being front and center only adds to my admiration of the guy.

09-11-2010, 07:18 AM	#16
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	I always have a hard time siding with the players when this issue comes up. I think more performance based salaries would make it easier to stomach the $200 tickets, $30 parking and $9 beers

09-11-2010, 07:38 AM	#17
subguy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: FL Posts: 2,096	I also do not have much sympathy for the players in their plight. I understand that their careers are shorter than that of fellow professional athletes in other sports, but they are compensated well for our "entertainment". Why does anyone care how much the NFL or the owner's make if they are the one's making an investment? Yes, I realize the player's allow the investors to make the money, but this is kind of how it is in any career or job. Some people run the risk and some people help the risk takers make their money and in turn are compensated for making the risk takers the money. While I do not begrudge anyone the ability to earn, ultimately the cost of the end product increases to the consumer as it does with any good or service provided when there is an increase in the raw cost of that product.

09-11-2010, 07:51 AM	#18
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,715 Blog Entries: 13	I think that if they were trying to send a message to the owners, they were holding up the wrong finger.