Intelligence.

JKool · 12-07-2003, 06:37 PM

Ok, now that we're going to begin a consideration of what we should do for next year (while continuing to root for this year's version of our favorite team), I propose we avoid some unnecessary stupid stuff. Here are two questions that must be answered:

1. Proof that AB is a moron must be given. I challenge someone to tell me what the connection between fumbling and intelligence is. If that cannot be provided, then some other argument for why Brooks is a moron must be given, or shut up about that point. It is not that I am not sympathetic to such an argument, I just feel that one has not been given.

2. Team collapses in Decembers are not evidence of bad coaching. Someone please tell me how what happens in one December has anything to do with the next. Also, each game is won and lost in a different manner. To demonstrate that it is coaching that is the problem, someone will have to tease out enough facts to convice the rest of us that coaching is the reason FOR EACH LOSS in any given set of losses.

Apologies to anyone who has heard me say this before, but these were burried deep in other threads.

BillyC · 12-07-2003, 06:45 PM

JKool -- All you are gonna get on here is a bunch of double talk. No one will really give you the REAL truth. What you will get is a spin on EVERYTHING. Most of the memebers on here have a clear agenda and skew things to fit their agenda.

Good luck on those questions, because I completely agree with you, but prepare to be frustrated by the responses you get.

[Edited on 7/12/2003 by BillyC]

whowatches · 12-07-2003, 06:56 PM

1. I do not know Aaron Brooks, but two things lead me to sometimes question his intelligence. First, interviews. I literally have to change the channel when he is on television or the radio. He is not the only professional athelete I feel this way toward, but he is one of the worst. Second, he does have a problem adjusting to defenses. This part of the equation, however, could be helped with better coaching. Could it be solved? I dunno. Maybe we\'ll hire a quality qb coach this offseason or a veteran mentor.

2. December is crunch time. Teams have had thirteen weeks to learn, develop, gel, etc. Injuries and wear and tear have also taken their toll by this point in the season. Opposing teams have weeks worth of film to analyze before each game. Coaches have to adjust in order to give their team the advantage. The ability to compile fresh strategies and game-scripts at the end of the season separates winning coaches from losing coaches.

Also, motivation becomes a factor at the end of the season as well. In our case, where we needed a four game streak to end the season, coaches must provide that extra spark to keep the players from becoming sloppy (this year) or complacent (last year).

Even if today\'s gameplan was sound, turnovers stem from a lack of discipline and personel decisions. I put those squarely on the shoulders of the coaches as well.

BillyC · 12-07-2003, 06:59 PM

Dallas 10 Final
Philadelphia 36

Would you blame this on coaching or players making stupid mistakes there in Dallas ?

frankeefrank · 12-07-2003, 07:02 PM

Philly has better players, but good coaching made Dallas a playoff contender

BillyC · 12-07-2003, 07:05 PM

Seattle 7 Final
Minnesota 34

How \'bout this one? And who do you think has the better players out of the Saints and Bucs? The Bucs did win the superbowl last year and have been in every game they have played. Fans look at records and assume teams are terrible, when that\'s really not the case at all.

whowatches · 12-07-2003, 07:07 PM

I think coaching and personel decisions were definitely part of the Dallas loss today. Absolutely.

Two things. I think Parcells should not have dumped Ross. I think he gets a bit carried away with the whole \"sending a message\" thing. The Cowboys were burned consistently in nickle packages today.

Second, Dallas played way too much zone defense today, and McNabb took advantage of it (he would have taken greater advantage had receivers not dropped a couple of balls).

Actually, I have a third one, too (this is the early game I was forced to watch in Birmingham). Dallas\'s receivers were taken out of the game out of the game today by Dallas\'s coaches. The Cowboys tried to run the ball exclusively early in the game, and by the time they got around to using the WRs, they were cold and unmotivated (which I blame on both the coaches and the players).

So yes, coaching was a big part of that loss. Maybe Philly has a bit more talent (not much), but they have a very good coach who out-schemed his opponent today.

BillyC · 12-07-2003, 07:13 PM

whowatches -- Just remember this. The amount of scheming a coach can do is limited to the talent his team has. Imagine the scheming Parcells could do with Mick Vick and Randy Moss on the same offense. Parcells schemes to cover up a lot of weaknesses on that team. If he had the talent he wouldn\'t have to worry about covering up so many weaknesses.

So, did he really get out coached OR did the lack of talent on the Cowboy\'s prevent him from running the kind of schemes he really WANTS to run?

Parcells will never do anything special in Dallas without more talent !!

JKool · 12-07-2003, 07:22 PM

So Brooks\' fumbling was Haz\'s fault?

Surely you don\'t mean that? What you must mean is this: by not pulling Brooks, Haz contributed to some fumbles. Is that the case? Could someone who actually saw the game shed some light on this?

Also, how does lack of discipline lead someone to drop the ball? Just curious.

[Edited on 8/12/2003 by JKool]

BillyC · 12-07-2003, 07:31 PM

JKool -- I\'m going to give this a shot and I\'m going to be as honest as I can without any agenda.

When Brooks throws an air ball, I think it has something to do with the grip (either too tight or too loose.) Does this mean he is stupid? Of course not. When I first started playing the drums I used to have a bad habit of droping the drum stick that was in my left hand when I did a roll. I was gripping the stick too loosly. Through practice I corrected that problem. This problem Brooks has is correctable, but some folks just want him gone whether it\'s for smiling or whatever.

If someone bases intelligence on interview with the media they might need to rethink that arguement. Being in front of a microphone or camera makes some people nerveous and they come across as ignorant or dumb. Take Dan Quail for instance. He come off as a complete moron, but he was vice-president, so if he was dumb he was smarter in life and more successful than any of us. Come on people use you head. You can\'t be judging people like that.

3. Everything goes back on the coach. Most of it is not fair and fans should know it\'s not really all of Hasletts fault. Jon Gruden is a great coach but the Bucs lead the league in stupid mistakes. He can\'t do it for them.

12-07-2003, 06:37 PM	#1
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Intelligence. Ok, now that we're going to begin a consideration of what we should do for next year (while continuing to root for this year's version of our favorite team), I propose we avoid some unnecessary stupid stuff. Here are two questions that must be answered: 1. Proof that AB is a moron must be given. I challenge someone to tell me what the connection between fumbling and intelligence is. If that cannot be provided, then some other argument for why Brooks is a moron must be given, or shut up about that point. It is not that I am not sympathetic to such an argument, I just feel that one has not been given. 2. Team collapses in Decembers are not evidence of bad coaching. Someone please tell me how what happens in one December has anything to do with the next. Also, each game is won and lost in a different manner. To demonstrate that it is coaching that is the problem, someone will have to tease out enough facts to convice the rest of us that coaching is the reason FOR EACH LOSS in any given set of losses. Apologies to anyone who has heard me say this before, but these were burried deep in other threads.

12-07-2003, 06:45 PM	#2
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Intelligence. JKool -- All you are gonna get on here is a bunch of double talk. No one will really give you the REAL truth. What you will get is a spin on EVERYTHING. Most of the memebers on here have a clear agenda and skew things to fit their agenda. Good luck on those questions, because I completely agree with you, but prepare to be frustrated by the responses you get. [Edited on 7/12/2003 by BillyC]
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

12-07-2003, 06:56 PM	#3
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575	Intelligence. 1. I do not know Aaron Brooks, but two things lead me to sometimes question his intelligence. First, interviews. I literally have to change the channel when he is on television or the radio. He is not the only professional athelete I feel this way toward, but he is one of the worst. Second, he does have a problem adjusting to defenses. This part of the equation, however, could be helped with better coaching. Could it be solved? I dunno. Maybe we\'ll hire a quality qb coach this offseason or a veteran mentor. 2. December is crunch time. Teams have had thirteen weeks to learn, develop, gel, etc. Injuries and wear and tear have also taken their toll by this point in the season. Opposing teams have weeks worth of film to analyze before each game. Coaches have to adjust in order to give their team the advantage. The ability to compile fresh strategies and game-scripts at the end of the season separates winning coaches from losing coaches. Also, motivation becomes a factor at the end of the season as well. In our case, where we needed a four game streak to end the season, coaches must provide that extra spark to keep the players from becoming sloppy (this year) or complacent (last year). Even if today\'s gameplan was sound, turnovers stem from a lack of discipline and personel decisions. I put those squarely on the shoulders of the coaches as well.
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575

12-07-2003, 06:59 PM	#4
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Intelligence. Dallas 10 Final Philadelphia 36 Would you blame this on coaching or players making stupid mistakes there in Dallas ?
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

12-07-2003, 07:02 PM	#5
frankeefrank 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 775	Intelligence. Philly has better players, but good coaching made Dallas a playoff contender
frankeefrank 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 775

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12-07-2003, 07:05 PM	#6
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Intelligence. Seattle 7 Final Minnesota 34 How \'bout this one? And who do you think has the better players out of the Saints and Bucs? The Bucs did win the superbowl last year and have been in every game they have played. Fans look at records and assume teams are terrible, when that\'s really not the case at all.
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

12-07-2003, 07:07 PM	#7
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575	Intelligence. I think coaching and personel decisions were definitely part of the Dallas loss today. Absolutely. Two things. I think Parcells should not have dumped Ross. I think he gets a bit carried away with the whole \"sending a message\" thing. The Cowboys were burned consistently in nickle packages today. Second, Dallas played way too much zone defense today, and McNabb took advantage of it (he would have taken greater advantage had receivers not dropped a couple of balls). Actually, I have a third one, too (this is the early game I was forced to watch in Birmingham). Dallas\'s receivers were taken out of the game out of the game today by Dallas\'s coaches. The Cowboys tried to run the ball exclusively early in the game, and by the time they got around to using the WRs, they were cold and unmotivated (which I blame on both the coaches and the players). So yes, coaching was a big part of that loss. Maybe Philly has a bit more talent (not much), but they have a very good coach who out-schemed his opponent today.
whowatches 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 575

12-07-2003, 07:13 PM	#8
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Intelligence. whowatches -- Just remember this. The amount of scheming a coach can do is limited to the talent his team has. Imagine the scheming Parcells could do with Mick Vick and Randy Moss on the same offense. Parcells schemes to cover up a lot of weaknesses on that team. If he had the talent he wouldn\'t have to worry about covering up so many weaknesses. So, did he really get out coached OR did the lack of talent on the Cowboy\'s prevent him from running the kind of schemes he really WANTS to run? Parcells will never do anything special in Dallas without more talent !!
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

12-07-2003, 07:22 PM	#9
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Intelligence. So Brooks\' fumbling was Haz\'s fault? Surely you don\'t mean that? What you must mean is this: by not pulling Brooks, Haz contributed to some fumbles. Is that the case? Could someone who actually saw the game shed some light on this? Also, how does lack of discipline lead someone to drop the ball? Just curious. [Edited on 8/12/2003 by JKool]

12-07-2003, 07:31 PM	#10
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	Intelligence. JKool -- I\'m going to give this a shot and I\'m going to be as honest as I can without any agenda. When Brooks throws an air ball, I think it has something to do with the grip (either too tight or too loose.) Does this mean he is stupid? Of course not. When I first started playing the drums I used to have a bad habit of droping the drum stick that was in my left hand when I did a roll. I was gripping the stick too loosly. Through practice I corrected that problem. This problem Brooks has is correctable, but some folks just want him gone whether it\'s for smiling or whatever. If someone bases intelligence on interview with the media they might need to rethink that arguement. Being in front of a microphone or camera makes some people nerveous and they come across as ignorant or dumb. Take Dan Quail for instance. He come off as a complete moron, but he was vice-president, so if he was dumb he was smarter in life and more successful than any of us. Come on people use you head. You can\'t be judging people like that. 3. Everything goes back on the coach. Most of it is not fair and fans should know it\'s not really all of Hasletts fault. Jon Gruden is a great coach but the Bucs lead the league in stupid mistakes. He can\'t do it for them.
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842