New York Giants admit to doing exactly the same thing as the New Orleans Saints!

PatMcIrish · 04-06-2012, 10:15 AM

A couple fair points, I am new so haven't read what everyone has posted, maybe some did step up to the plate. Since I got here though and reading it lately it's mostly crying about other teams doing the same thing, it being no big deal, and that Goodall is a jerk. Have seen nobody step up and say I'M DISGUSTED WITH THE SAINTS AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE!!!

Also, since more information is coming out then opinions will change. Just because you said something in January doesn't mean that opinion will be the same. As information is obtained then opinions can/will change as well. So what I posted here is new, this just happened. Not the whole issue but all these details about going for ACL's and trying to injure specific players was something I wasn't aware of.

In the end I have to say both SP and GW should not ever coach again. You get young kids right out of college and these are the coaches that are trying to shape their career? They're really trying to make the NFL more about hurting guys then trying to win legally? That's my beef, I'm afraid this crap will catch on, as a fan I would be clear to anyone that listens I'm not okay with it.

AsylumGuido · 04-06-2012, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by PatMcIrish

A couple fair points, I am new so haven't read what everyone has posted, maybe some did step up to the plate. Since I got here though and reading it lately it's mostly crying about other teams doing the same thing, it being no big deal, and that Goodall is a jerk. Have seen nobody step up and say I'M DISGUSTED WITH THE SAINTS AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE!!!

Also, since more information is coming out then opinions will change. Just because you said something in January doesn't mean that opinion will be the same. As information is obtained then opinions can/will change as well. So what I posted here is new, this just happened. Not the whole issue but all these details about going for ACL's and trying to injure specific players was something I wasn't aware of.

In the end I have to say both SP and GW should not ever coach again. You get young kids right out of college and these are the coaches that are trying to shape their career? They're really trying to make the NFL more about hurting guys then trying to win legally? That's my beef, I'm afraid this crap will catch on, as a fan I would be clear to anyone that listens I'm not okay with it.

The only person truly implicated in this is Gregg Williams. I agree, he should be banned for life. But Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis ordered Williams to halt whatever he was doing on multiple occasions and he ignored them. Also, just because a lunatic coach calls for going after an ACL doesn't mean a single player in that room would have done it. In fact, they didn't. That's what is bothering us as fans. The assumption by those of you who that Payton knowingly took part in this, which is beyond stupid and I can't believe he would ever condone it, and the assumption that players actually took part by performing the acts. There is no evidence that any player actively tried to injure another player. Note I said injure, because ALL players try to hurt other players on every play.

blackangold · 04-06-2012, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by PatMcIrish

A couple fair points, I am new so haven't read what everyone has posted, maybe some did step up to the plate. Since I got here though and reading it lately it's mostly crying about other teams doing the same thing, it being no big deal, and that Goodall is a jerk. Have seen nobody step up and say I'M DISGUSTED WITH THE SAINTS AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE!!!

Also, since more information is coming out then opinions will change. Just because you said something in January doesn't mean that opinion will be the same. As information is obtained then opinions can/will change as well. So what I posted here is new, this just happened. Not the whole issue but all these details about going for ACL's and trying to injure specific players was something I wasn't aware of.

In the end I have to say both SP and GW should not ever coach again. You get young kids right out of college and these are the coaches that are trying to shape their career? They're really trying to make the NFL more about hurting guys then trying to win legally? That's my beef, I'm afraid this crap will catch on, as a fan I would be clear to anyone that listens I'm not okay with it.

Great thing is Pat you don't have to be a fan of the Saints. As people have stated on this board, nobody has come out and said what Williams did was okay, but to be ignorant and think this isn't wide spread is foolish. Let me tell you something Pat, as a person who played ball I was ALWAYS going out to hurt the other guy. My intention wasn't to kill them, rather to rattle them and yes knock them out of the game if possible. That is how the game is played. Pat big hits are glorified for a reason.
Enjoy the season as a bucs fan Pat. You'll still be at the bottom of the heap though because Freeman is overrated!

pherein · 04-07-2012, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by PatMcIrish

A couple fair points, I am new so haven't read what everyone has posted, maybe some did step up to the plate. Since I got here though and reading it lately it's mostly crying about other teams doing the same thing, it being no big deal, and that Goodall is a jerk. Have seen nobody step up and say I'M DISGUSTED WITH THE SAINTS AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE!!!

Also, since more information is coming out then opinions will change. Just because you said something in January doesn't mean that opinion will be the same. As information is obtained then opinions can/will change as well. So what I posted here is new, this just happened. Not the whole issue but all these details about going for ACL's and trying to injure specific players was something I wasn't aware of.

In the end I have to say both SP and GW should not ever coach again. You get young kids right out of college and these are the coaches that are trying to shape their career? They're really trying to make the NFL more about hurting guys then trying to win legally? That's my beef, I'm afraid this crap will catch on, as a fan I would be clear to anyone that listens I'm not okay with it.

No not some Pat, you won't find a saints fan here thats defending what we did was right................................................................................................................................................................................................... ........................................................................................................................................................................................................ ........................................................................................................................................................................................................ ...............................................................................................................................................let me let that sink....................................................... .............................................................................................in.....................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................ ................................................................................................................................................................
Because you where told this many times.

The only one crying on this board is you. To have your opinions adopted by us, and thats not going to happen, because your not listening to our fans opinions, or giving us the time of day of what we think. Try to be more objective next time, and treat us like we would treat you on your board as a curtsy , and you will get a lot of respect here.
This is a great board with good moderators, so you will be given many chances.

But saying SP should never coach again is pretty off the charts.

PatMcIrish · 04-07-2012, 12:27 PM

Hey guys, thanks for the posts. After reading the comments it does sound like most of you were not happy with what went down, props for that. My bad for assuming without having all the facts.

I read several places though where opposing fans (of course we know they'd never lie

) summed up what the Saint fans were saying as none of them were taking responsibility, all of them were blaming any and everyone else, and that you were making your team out to be the victim in all this.

That coupled with me for the first time hearing that link I posted in the original post started to make me wonder. Started to make me angry at GW. I've always read this board, posted under Patrick McIrish but lost my password years ago, probably been here since it started.

I say that to make the point I do consider myself a Saints fan. Not my primary team, but certainly 2nd favorite. When you won the ring I was happy as hell, you guys repped the NFC South in a fine manner. The area as well.

I have a 2nd residence in Harrison county, Biloxi. Obviously I know and hang out with lot of Saint fans. Won't ever root for you when you play the Bucs, I can't do that, the rest of the time I do though.

In short, I was pissed off as how you guys were being labeled, I wanted to hear what you guys had to say for myself. And after getting here I have to say what other fans have said don't seem to be true.

Yes, A few are still acting the "victim", most seem to have a more mature look at what went on though. Props to you all for that. And while I still don't agree with all the points made here some do indeed hold merit. Carry on.

PatMcIrish · 04-06-2012, 10:18 AM

And BTW I'm not sure your ring should be taken away. I doubt the NFL does that although there is talk of "everything still being on the table". This latest stuff was done when the team knew very clearly an investigation was in order. Both GW and SP should pay the ultimate price, this goes beyond arrogance.

Take your ring away? Naw. Although some will look at you guys winning it much differently now, me included. Nor do I want to see the team disbanded or anything else, just think both SP and GW should never coach again in the NFL. A clear and powerful message should be sent here. If proof of other teams doing it then the same measures should apply.

claus808 · 04-06-2012, 10:20 AM

LOL! Some people...

Dasidreidia · 04-06-2012, 01:32 PM

Pat, I'll step up and say that when this broke, I was horrified and hated Gregg Williams even more. I agree that he should never coach again because he's too dangerous of a coach and he's not even a very good one after teams figure his defense out. If the players actually did try to injure other players, then I'm ashamed of that too.

HOWEVER. I stand behind my team in rain or shine. I do not support the bounty system. I support the New Orleans Saints. Because I was here for seasons when we lost games in double digits. I was here when we made it to the playoffs only to fall short in the first game. I was here when we finally won that game, and got thrashed in the next one. I was here for a 3-13 season when the Saints were homeless, playing home games in Tiger Stadium and San Antonio. I was here when the Saints returned home to a loving crowd to reopen the Louisiana Superdome. I was here when we made it to the NFC Championship Game, and once again fell short. I was here when we went 13-0. I was here as we all chewed our fingernails watching the 2009 NFC Championship Game. And I was here as we all celebrating being crowned World Champions. I was born a Saints fan, and I'll die a Saints fan. Who Dat Forever.

PatMcIrish · 04-07-2012, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Dasidreidia

Pat, I'll step up and say that when this broke, I was horrified and hated Gregg Williams even more. I agree that he should never coach again because he's too dangerous of a coach and he's not even a very good one after teams figure his defense out. If the players actually did try to injure other players, then I'm ashamed of that too.

HOWEVER. I stand behind my team in rain or shine. I do not support the bounty system. I support the New Orleans Saints. Because I was here for seasons when we lost games in double digits. I was here when we made it to the playoffs only to fall short in the first game. I was here when we finally won that game, and got thrashed in the next one. I was here for a 3-13 season when the Saints were homeless, playing home games in Tiger Stadium and San Antonio. I was here when the Saints returned home to a loving crowd to reopen the Louisiana Superdome. I was here when we made it to the NFC Championship Game, and once again fell short. I was here when we went 13-0. I was here as we all chewed our fingernails watching the 2009 NFC Championship Game. And I was here as we all celebrating being crowned World Champions. I was born a Saints fan, and I'll die a Saints fan. Who Dat Forever.

Excellent post, one of the best I've read.

And trust me as a fan of the Bucs (0-26) if there's anyone who can relate to "taking the journey" as a loyal fan it is your NFC South counterparts. Long road for us, went from the worst of all time to not just winning, but dominating in the SuperBowl, will always be proud of that team just as you guys should be of yours. In short, I can relate to what you posted, well said.

NFC South baby!

Rugby Saint II · 04-06-2012, 08:40 PM

It was predominant.

View Poll Results: Are the Saints being treated unfairly by the NFL?
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04-06-2012, 10:15 AM	#1
PatMcIrish Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 16	A couple fair points, I am new so haven't read what everyone has posted, maybe some did step up to the plate. Since I got here though and reading it lately it's mostly crying about other teams doing the same thing, it being no big deal, and that Goodall is a jerk. Have seen nobody step up and say I'M DISGUSTED WITH THE SAINTS AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE!!! Also, since more information is coming out then opinions will change. Just because you said something in January doesn't mean that opinion will be the same. As information is obtained then opinions can/will change as well. So what I posted here is new, this just happened. Not the whole issue but all these details about going for ACL's and trying to injure specific players was something I wasn't aware of. In the end I have to say both SP and GW should not ever coach again. You get young kids right out of college and these are the coaches that are trying to shape their career? They're really trying to make the NFL more about hurting guys then trying to win legally? That's my beef, I'm afraid this crap will catch on, as a fan I would be clear to anyone that listens I'm not okay with it.
PatMcIrish Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 16

04-06-2012, 10:40 AM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,854	Originally Posted by PatMcIrish A couple fair points, I am new so haven't read what everyone has posted, maybe some did step up to the plate. Since I got here though and reading it lately it's mostly crying about other teams doing the same thing, it being no big deal, and that Goodall is a jerk. Have seen nobody step up and say I'M DISGUSTED WITH THE SAINTS AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE!!! Also, since more information is coming out then opinions will change. Just because you said something in January doesn't mean that opinion will be the same. As information is obtained then opinions can/will change as well. So what I posted here is new, this just happened. Not the whole issue but all these details about going for ACL's and trying to injure specific players was something I wasn't aware of. In the end I have to say both SP and GW should not ever coach again. You get young kids right out of college and these are the coaches that are trying to shape their career? They're really trying to make the NFL more about hurting guys then trying to win legally? That's my beef, I'm afraid this crap will catch on, as a fan I would be clear to anyone that listens I'm not okay with it. The only person truly implicated in this is Gregg Williams. I agree, he should be banned for life. But Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis ordered Williams to halt whatever he was doing on multiple occasions and he ignored them. Also, just because a lunatic coach calls for going after an ACL doesn't mean a single player in that room would have done it. In fact, they didn't. That's what is bothering us as fans. The assumption by those of you who that Payton knowingly took part in this, which is beyond stupid and I can't believe he would ever condone it, and the assumption that players actually took part by performing the acts. There is no evidence that any player actively tried to injure another player. Note I said injure, because ALL players try to hurt other players on every play. Halo, saintfan, halloween 65 and 1 others like this.

04-06-2012, 04:25 PM	#3
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Originally Posted by PatMcIrish A couple fair points, I am new so haven't read what everyone has posted, maybe some did step up to the plate. Since I got here though and reading it lately it's mostly crying about other teams doing the same thing, it being no big deal, and that Goodall is a jerk. Have seen nobody step up and say I'M DISGUSTED WITH THE SAINTS AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE!!! Also, since more information is coming out then opinions will change. Just because you said something in January doesn't mean that opinion will be the same. As information is obtained then opinions can/will change as well. So what I posted here is new, this just happened. Not the whole issue but all these details about going for ACL's and trying to injure specific players was something I wasn't aware of. In the end I have to say both SP and GW should not ever coach again. You get young kids right out of college and these are the coaches that are trying to shape their career? They're really trying to make the NFL more about hurting guys then trying to win legally? That's my beef, I'm afraid this crap will catch on, as a fan I would be clear to anyone that listens I'm not okay with it. Great thing is Pat you don't have to be a fan of the Saints. As people have stated on this board, nobody has come out and said what Williams did was okay, but to be ignorant and think this isn't wide spread is foolish. Let me tell you something Pat, as a person who played ball I was ALWAYS going out to hurt the other guy. My intention wasn't to kill them, rather to rattle them and yes knock them out of the game if possible. That is how the game is played. Pat big hits are glorified for a reason. Enjoy the season as a bucs fan Pat. You'll still be at the bottom of the heap though because Freeman is overrated!

04-07-2012, 12:01 AM	#4
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by PatMcIrish A couple fair points, I am new so haven't read what everyone has posted, maybe some did step up to the plate. Since I got here though and reading it lately it's mostly crying about other teams doing the same thing, it being no big deal, and that Goodall is a jerk. Have seen nobody step up and say I'M DISGUSTED WITH THE SAINTS AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE!!! Also, since more information is coming out then opinions will change. Just because you said something in January doesn't mean that opinion will be the same. As information is obtained then opinions can/will change as well. So what I posted here is new, this just happened. Not the whole issue but all these details about going for ACL's and trying to injure specific players was something I wasn't aware of. In the end I have to say both SP and GW should not ever coach again. You get young kids right out of college and these are the coaches that are trying to shape their career? They're really trying to make the NFL more about hurting guys then trying to win legally? That's my beef, I'm afraid this crap will catch on, as a fan I would be clear to anyone that listens I'm not okay with it. No not some Pat, you won't find a saints fan here thats defending what we did was right................................................................................................................................................................................................... ........................................................................................................................................................................................................ ........................................................................................................................................................................................................ ...............................................................................................................................................let me let that sink....................................................... .............................................................................................in..................................................................... ........................................................................................................................................................................................................ ................................................................................................................................................................ Because you where told this many times. The only one crying on this board is you. To have your opinions adopted by us, and thats not going to happen, because your not listening to our fans opinions, or giving us the time of day of what we think. Try to be more objective next time, and treat us like we would treat you on your board as a curtsy , and you will get a lot of respect here. This is a great board with good moderators, so you will be given many chances. But saying SP should never coach again is pretty off the charts.
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before. Last edited by pherein; 04-07-2012 at 12:05 AM..

04-07-2012, 12:27 PM	#5
PatMcIrish Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 16	Hey guys, thanks for the posts. After reading the comments it does sound like most of you were not happy with what went down, props for that. My bad for assuming without having all the facts. I read several places though where opposing fans (of course we know they'd never lie ) summed up what the Saint fans were saying as none of them were taking responsibility, all of them were blaming any and everyone else, and that you were making your team out to be the victim in all this. That coupled with me for the first time hearing that link I posted in the original post started to make me wonder. Started to make me angry at GW. I've always read this board, posted under Patrick McIrish but lost my password years ago, probably been here since it started. I say that to make the point I do consider myself a Saints fan. Not my primary team, but certainly 2nd favorite. When you won the ring I was happy as hell, you guys repped the NFC South in a fine manner. The area as well. I have a 2nd residence in Harrison county, Biloxi. Obviously I know and hang out with lot of Saint fans. Won't ever root for you when you play the Bucs, I can't do that, the rest of the time I do though. In short, I was pissed off as how you guys were being labeled, I wanted to hear what you guys had to say for myself. And after getting here I have to say what other fans have said don't seem to be true. Yes, A few are still acting the "victim", most seem to have a more mature look at what went on though. Props to you all for that. And while I still don't agree with all the points made here some do indeed hold merit. Carry on.
PatMcIrish Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 16

04-06-2012, 10:18 AM	#6
PatMcIrish Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 16	And BTW I'm not sure your ring should be taken away. I doubt the NFL does that although there is talk of "everything still being on the table". This latest stuff was done when the team knew very clearly an investigation was in order. Both GW and SP should pay the ultimate price, this goes beyond arrogance. Take your ring away? Naw. Although some will look at you guys winning it much differently now, me included. Nor do I want to see the team disbanded or anything else, just think both SP and GW should never coach again in the NFL. A clear and powerful message should be sent here. If proof of other teams doing it then the same measures should apply.
PatMcIrish Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 16

04-06-2012, 10:20 AM	#7
claus808 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 213	LOL! Some people...

04-06-2012, 01:32 PM	#8
Dasidreidia 500th Post Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Charlotte (Kill me), but born in Gretna. Posts: 721	Pat, I'll step up and say that when this broke, I was horrified and hated Gregg Williams even more. I agree that he should never coach again because he's too dangerous of a coach and he's not even a very good one after teams figure his defense out. If the players actually did try to injure other players, then I'm ashamed of that too. HOWEVER. I stand behind my team in rain or shine. I do not support the bounty system. I support the New Orleans Saints. Because I was here for seasons when we lost games in double digits. I was here when we made it to the playoffs only to fall short in the first game. I was here when we finally won that game, and got thrashed in the next one. I was here for a 3-13 season when the Saints were homeless, playing home games in Tiger Stadium and San Antonio. I was here when the Saints returned home to a loving crowd to reopen the Louisiana Superdome. I was here when we made it to the NFC Championship Game, and once again fell short. I was here when we went 13-0. I was here as we all chewed our fingernails watching the 2009 NFC Championship Game. And I was here as we all celebrating being crowned World Champions. I was born a Saints fan, and I'll die a Saints fan. Who Dat Forever. Halo, iceshack149, AsylumGuido and 3 others like this.
	Saints fan since he watched them play from his crib. "THIS! IS! NEW ORLEANS!!!" -Drew Brees, 2008 season

04-07-2012, 12:35 PM	#9
PatMcIrish Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 16	Originally Posted by Dasidreidia Pat, I'll step up and say that when this broke, I was horrified and hated Gregg Williams even more. I agree that he should never coach again because he's too dangerous of a coach and he's not even a very good one after teams figure his defense out. If the players actually did try to injure other players, then I'm ashamed of that too. HOWEVER. I stand behind my team in rain or shine. I do not support the bounty system. I support the New Orleans Saints. Because I was here for seasons when we lost games in double digits. I was here when we made it to the playoffs only to fall short in the first game. I was here when we finally won that game, and got thrashed in the next one. I was here for a 3-13 season when the Saints were homeless, playing home games in Tiger Stadium and San Antonio. I was here when the Saints returned home to a loving crowd to reopen the Louisiana Superdome. I was here when we made it to the NFC Championship Game, and once again fell short. I was here when we went 13-0. I was here as we all chewed our fingernails watching the 2009 NFC Championship Game. And I was here as we all celebrating being crowned World Champions. I was born a Saints fan, and I'll die a Saints fan. Who Dat Forever. Excellent post, one of the best I've read. And trust me as a fan of the Bucs (0-26) if there's anyone who can relate to "taking the journey" as a loyal fan it is your NFC South counterparts. Long road for us, went from the worst of all time to not just winning, but dominating in the SuperBowl, will always be proud of that team just as you guys should be of yours. In short, I can relate to what you posted, well said. NFC South baby!
PatMcIrish Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 16

04-06-2012, 08:40 PM	#10
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,200	It was predominant.

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