Bounty evidence may have been fake.

BGWhoDat · 04-11-2012, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

Some people are still in denial I see.

If there was no program then ya think with your ass on the line you'd come out and say "look Mo Fo's... we didn't have one". I know I would but the apologized for it already, hmmm.

A system in place and carrying out are two different things.

I can give you a gun, set up a meeting, and tell you to kill someone. That doesn't mean you went out to do it.

Unless the NFL in their documents have actual proof that these transactions went for injury specifically, they have absolutely no basis for serious punishment except speculation.

The Saints admitted to performance incentives such as interceptions. What's to say that the money in the envelopes that were exchanged weren't for those? You can't speculate and hand out serious suspensions and such for something if you can't prove what the money was exchanged for. That'll be the NFLPA's stance, and you bet that will hold up in court.

The coaches owned up to having a system in place, therefore their punishment is what it is. However if it can't be proven the players were paid for injury specifically, as in, no doubt the money was for that, then sever punishment isn't warranted because they have no proof that they acted on the system. Not every "illegal hit" was due to a bounty.

Euphoria · 04-11-2012, 04:39 PM

If you give me a gun and tell me to kill someone... you still go to jail.

I don't have to actually go and kill someone for you to go to jail.

BGWhoDat · 04-11-2012, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

If you give me a gun and tell me to kill someone... you still go to jail.

I don't have to actually go and kill someone for you to go to jail.

If Gregg Williams had this system in place.. no one followed through with it (IE the 49ers game when we have 0 penalties).. how could the NFL justify penalties on the players?

Again, if the players did not accept money for injury or put up money for injury, then they'd get MINIMAL (fine, one game suspension) for knowledge. That's all.

Halo · 04-11-2012, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

If you give me a gun and tell me to kill someone... you still go to jail.

I don't have to actually go and kill someone for you to go to jail.

Euphoria,

I disagree to a point but on a separate issue. I personally feel a scheme was in place and I'm ready for this punishment to come and pass and for the organzation to move on.

Was there a bounty scheme? Yes I think they're was.

Did the punishment fit this crime? No, I can only go by what is "precident" for this commisioner and that's "Spygate" to the best of my knowledge.

Is ordering your players to do harm on others on the field, a matter arguably normal practice in the sport, as severe as CHEATING by puting a video camera on opposing teams leading to a game?

That's the question I ponder.

The message sent was this: if you're found guilty in the NFL, NEVER admit to the accusation because you'll get off with a slap on the wrist (a la Bilichick)

If you stand up and admit the wrong you will be punished to the n'th degree, up to losing your job and jeopardising your season.

If you don't think there will be reprocussions because of this foolishness you're out of your mind.

NEVER will a player or Coach stand up (man up) to a wrong committed ever again... why admit to it when you can deny it and get away with practically MURDER.

saintfan · 04-11-2012, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Halo

Euphoria,

I disagree to a point but on a separate issue. I personally feel a scheme was in place and I'm ready for this punishment to come and pass and for the organzation to move on.

Was there a bounty scheme? Yes I think they're was.

Did the punishment fit this crime? No, I can only go by what is "precident" for this commisioner and that's "Spygate" to the best of my knowledge.

Is ordering your players to do harm on others on the field, a matter arguably normal practice in the sport, as severe as CHEATING by puting a video camera on opposing teams leading to a game?

That's the question I ponder.

The message sent was this: if you're found guilty in the NFL, NEVER admit to the accusation because you'll get off with a slap on the wrist (a la Bilichick)

If you stand up and admit the wrong you will be punished to the n'th degree, up to losing your job and jeopardising your season.

If you don't think there will be reprocussions because of this foolishness you're out of your mind.

NEVER will a player or Coach stand up (man up) to a wrong committed ever again... why admit to it when you can deny it and get away with practically MURDER.

Seems to me it doesn't matter whether you cop to it or not. Roger will do whatever he will do without regard to proof or evidence or facts or speculation or anything else. The man has a clear agenda and he's not going to let facts stand in the way. Period.

UK_WhoDat · 04-12-2012, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

If you give me a gun and tell me to kill someone... you still go to jail.

I don't have to actually go and kill someone for you to go to jail.

Interesting perspective.

So if that person who gives the gun has a boss, does that boss go to jail also? And that boss' boss?

And what happens about the the someone who got given the gun?

Euphoria · 04-11-2012, 04:50 PM

Attempted Murder -its a crime of merely preparing to commit unlawful killing at the same time having a specific intent to cause the death of a human being.

The fact you gave me a weapon and ask me to do it is preparation to commit the act.

There is evidence that there was a program in place... sure no one may have collected because the act of a cart off never happened doesn't make the whole thing innocent. It was in play and that is all you really need.

BGWhoDat · 04-11-2012, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

Attempted Murder -its a crime of merely preparing to commit unlawful killing at the same time having a specific intent to cause the death of a human being.

The fact you gave me a weapon and ask me to do it is preparation to commit the act.

There is evidence that there was a program in place... sure no one may have collected because the act of a cart off never happened doesn't make the whole thing innocent. It was in play and that is all you really need.

A program that was in place by coaches, in which coaches were punished for.

The players can not be punished for an act if they did not act on it.

Unless there's proof a player put up money or accepted money directly for injury, there's 0 chance that this stands after NFLPA appeals.

In my opinion, if they didn't do that, that's called doing the "right thing." What, do you expect them to throw their friends and teammates under the bus by telling the NFL? I don't think so.

If you want to believe that if the coaches had something in place and they never went out and did it, that in some world that's wrong? That's on you. Not discussing that further. I stand by my point of view.

Euphoria · 04-11-2012, 05:17 PM

To an extent I can agree with you about the players. But I am not putting all my Easter eggs in one basket... I mean no one say SP getting a year.

The Elephant in the room is the rule. Bascially, you can't have essentially an office pool of any kind. They can't have a play for incentive program including for fumbles, sacks, ints's what have you. Even though every former NFL player seeming agrees they have... its against the rule.

Also just because you saw a crime and didn't say anything doesn't let you off the hook.

So you see your friend kill someone in front of you and you don't call the police... you are actually committing a crime by not calling the police.

So I am not even going to guess what a player should get... this could go anywhere as a result of SP's suspension.

gandhi1007 · 04-11-2012, 05:47 PM

I personally hope it turns out that most of the "evidence" was trumped up. This would be a big egg in the face of the NFL & could possibly cause that ****tard, Goodell to step down.

04-11-2012, 04:03 PM	#1
BGWhoDat Who Dat Writer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 241	Originally Posted by Euphoria Some people are still in denial I see. If there was no program then ya think with your ass on the line you'd come out and say "look Mo Fo's... we didn't have one". I know I would but the apologized for it already, hmmm. A system in place and carrying out are two different things. I can give you a gun, set up a meeting, and tell you to kill someone. That doesn't mean you went out to do it. Unless the NFL in their documents have actual proof that these transactions went for injury specifically, they have absolutely no basis for serious punishment except speculation. The Saints admitted to performance incentives such as interceptions. What's to say that the money in the envelopes that were exchanged weren't for those? You can't speculate and hand out serious suspensions and such for something if you can't prove what the money was exchanged for. That'll be the NFLPA's stance, and you bet that will hold up in court. The coaches owned up to having a system in place, therefore their punishment is what it is. However if it can't be proven the players were paid for injury specifically, as in, no doubt the money was for that, then sever punishment isn't warranted because they have no proof that they acted on the system. Not every "illegal hit" was due to a bounty.
	Twitter: @BGWhoDat Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/bgwhodat Website: http://www.rantsports.com

04-11-2012, 04:44 PM	#3
BGWhoDat Who Dat Writer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 241	Originally Posted by Euphoria If you give me a gun and tell me to kill someone... you still go to jail. I don't have to actually go and kill someone for you to go to jail. If Gregg Williams had this system in place.. no one followed through with it (IE the 49ers game when we have 0 penalties).. how could the NFL justify penalties on the players? Again, if the players did not accept money for injury or put up money for injury, then they'd get MINIMAL (fine, one game suspension) for knowledge. That's all.

04-11-2012, 06:16 PM	#4
Halo Site Donor MONTHLY Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 20,900 Blog Entries: 45	Originally Posted by Euphoria If you give me a gun and tell me to kill someone... you still go to jail. I don't have to actually go and kill someone for you to go to jail. Euphoria, I disagree to a point but on a separate issue. I personally feel a scheme was in place and I'm ready for this punishment to come and pass and for the organzation to move on. Was there a bounty scheme? Yes I think they're was. Did the punishment fit this crime? No, I can only go by what is "precident" for this commisioner and that's "Spygate" to the best of my knowledge. Is ordering your players to do harm on others on the field, a matter arguably normal practice in the sport, as severe as CHEATING by puting a video camera on opposing teams leading to a game? That's the question I ponder. The message sent was this: if you're found guilty in the NFL, NEVER admit to the accusation because you'll get off with a slap on the wrist (a la Bilichick) If you stand up and admit the wrong you will be punished to the n'th degree, up to losing your job and jeopardising your season. If you don't think there will be reprocussions because of this foolishness you're out of your mind. NEVER will a player or Coach stand up (man up) to a wrong committed ever again... why admit to it when you can deny it and get away with practically MURDER.
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04-11-2012, 06:22 PM	#5
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Originally Posted by Halo Euphoria, I disagree to a point but on a separate issue. I personally feel a scheme was in place and I'm ready for this punishment to come and pass and for the organzation to move on. Was there a bounty scheme? Yes I think they're was. Did the punishment fit this crime? No, I can only go by what is "precident" for this commisioner and that's "Spygate" to the best of my knowledge. Is ordering your players to do harm on others on the field, a matter arguably normal practice in the sport, as severe as CHEATING by puting a video camera on opposing teams leading to a game? That's the question I ponder. The message sent was this: if you're found guilty in the NFL, NEVER admit to the accusation because you'll get off with a slap on the wrist (a la Bilichick) If you stand up and admit the wrong you will be punished to the n'th degree, up to losing your job and jeopardising your season. If you don't think there will be reprocussions because of this foolishness you're out of your mind. NEVER will a player or Coach stand up (man up) to a wrong committed ever again... why admit to it when you can deny it and get away with practically MURDER. Seems to me it doesn't matter whether you cop to it or not. Roger will do whatever he will do without regard to proof or evidence or facts or speculation or anything else. The man has a clear agenda and he's not going to let facts stand in the way. Period.

04-12-2012, 06:14 AM	#6
UK_WhoDat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Wherever I lay my hat Posts: 4,001	Originally Posted by Euphoria If you give me a gun and tell me to kill someone... you still go to jail. I don't have to actually go and kill someone for you to go to jail. Interesting perspective. So if that person who gives the gun has a boss, does that boss go to jail also? And that boss' boss? And what happens about the the someone who got given the gun?

04-11-2012, 04:39 PM	#2
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	If you give me a gun and tell me to kill someone... you still go to jail. I don't have to actually go and kill someone for you to go to jail.

04-11-2012, 04:50 PM	#7
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Attempted Murder -its a crime of merely preparing to commit unlawful killing at the same time having a specific intent to cause the death of a human being. The fact you gave me a weapon and ask me to do it is preparation to commit the act. There is evidence that there was a program in place... sure no one may have collected because the act of a cart off never happened doesn't make the whole thing innocent. It was in play and that is all you really need.

04-11-2012, 04:56 PM	#8
BGWhoDat Who Dat Writer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 241	Originally Posted by Euphoria Attempted Murder -its a crime of merely preparing to commit unlawful killing at the same time having a specific intent to cause the death of a human being. The fact you gave me a weapon and ask me to do it is preparation to commit the act. There is evidence that there was a program in place... sure no one may have collected because the act of a cart off never happened doesn't make the whole thing innocent. It was in play and that is all you really need. A program that was in place by coaches, in which coaches were punished for. The players can not be punished for an act if they did not act on it. Unless there's proof a player put up money or accepted money directly for injury, there's 0 chance that this stands after NFLPA appeals. In my opinion, if they didn't do that, that's called doing the "right thing." What, do you expect them to throw their friends and teammates under the bus by telling the NFL? I don't think so. If you want to believe that if the coaches had something in place and they never went out and did it, that in some world that's wrong? That's on you. Not discussing that further. I stand by my point of view.
	Twitter: @BGWhoDat Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/bgwhodat Website: http://www.rantsports.com

04-11-2012, 05:17 PM	#9
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	To an extent I can agree with you about the players. But I am not putting all my Easter eggs in one basket... I mean no one say SP getting a year. The Elephant in the room is the rule. Bascially, you can't have essentially an office pool of any kind. They can't have a play for incentive program including for fumbles, sacks, ints's what have you. Even though every former NFL player seeming agrees they have... its against the rule. Also just because you saw a crime and didn't say anything doesn't let you off the hook. So you see your friend kill someone in front of you and you don't call the police... you are actually committing a crime by not calling the police. So I am not even going to guess what a player should get... this could go anywhere as a result of SP's suspension. BGWhoDat likes this.
	E U P H O R I A

04-11-2012, 05:47 PM	#10
gandhi1007 Part Time Pimp Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,967	I personally hope it turns out that most of the "evidence" was trumped up. This would be a big egg in the face of the NFL & could possibly cause that ****tard, Goodell to step down.

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