Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight

saintz08 · 05-08-2004, 10:54 AM

Aaron Brooks and chicken wings do seem to have about the same IQ.

Think we can pull the wonderlic scores on both of them ???... :P

GumboBC · 05-08-2004, 04:51 PM

This is annoying me. We spent 2 FIRST round picks. TWO! Now I don\'t expect the guy to save the world, but I kinda expect a first rounder to give his best effort in the first 2-3 years of his career. I don\'t think its too much to ask.

Secondly, why is he doing this? Did he always have this problem. Is so why did we select him so high in the draft and give up 2 picks if he was such a high risk? Or did he develop this problem in NO? If so, why is it our DL have the same problems with their weight in the last few years?

Now I\'m not trying blame Haz for this entirely. But when a player you drafted in the first round after giving up another first rounder for doesn\'t produce or appear to be trying his best, thats a problem.

whats the scoop here?

Gator,

Here\'s what I think -- You got a young guy coming out of college that\'s never had any money to speak of and all of a sudden, he\'s a multi-millionaire. He\'s got the big house and the nice car and all the distractions that go along with having money.

The man thinks all of his hard work has paid off and he has arrived at the promised land. Now instead for working hard during the offseason, he kick backs and does his thing.

The coaches need to get Sully on the right path. It is troubling when a young guy with so much promise doesn\'t take it on himself to be the best player he can be. Maybe John Pease can get through to the guy and push the right buttons.....

WhoDat · 05-10-2004, 09:52 AM

The coaches need to get Sully on the right path.

Let me get this straight - you\'re suggesting that not only can the coaches influence Sullivan\'s weight and conditioning, but it is their responsibility to do so (or at least something that they SHOULD do if Sullivan proves he can\'t take care of himself)????

GumboBC · 05-10-2004, 10:31 AM

Let me get this straight - you\'re suggesting that not only can the coaches influence Sullivan\'s weight and conditioning, but it is their responsibility to do so (or at least something that they SHOULD do if Sullivan proves he can\'t take care of himself)????

I guess what I should have said is they need to TRY to do everything in their power to get Sully on the right path. They can\'t make him and ultimately it\'s on Sully as to the kind of player he wants to be.

Now, I have a question for you WhoDat. What if Sully doesn\'t lose the weight? What do they do then?

WhoDat · 05-10-2004, 10:57 AM

If Sully can\'t lose weight and it affects his play then he should be dealt to another team.

Back to you: It\'s Haslett\'s responsibility to TRY - what if he fails? What if he fails with more than one player over and over again? Should anything happen to him for these failures? What does that say about him as a coach? Anything?

saintfan · 05-10-2004, 11:11 AM

Maybe Bill Parcells can get Larry Allen\'s weight under control. He failed to do that last year.

GumboBC · 05-10-2004, 02:43 PM

If Sully can\'t lose weight and it affects his play then he should be dealt to another team.

Back to you: It\'s Haslett\'s responsibility to TRY - what if he fails? What if he fails with more than one player over and over again? Should anything happen to him for these failures? What does that say about him as a coach? Anything?

If Haslett fails over and over again, to an extreme, then something is wrong and he probably needs to go. IMO, what you and others have been doing is lumping the players into a catagory and not evaluating each one on an idividual basis.

Heres\' the players that ya\'ll have brought up.

1. Joe Johnson -- Wasn\'t let go because he was a cancer. He was let go for money reasons.
2. Norman Hand -- Wasn\'t let go because he couldn\'t keep his weitht under control or because he was some kind of cancer. He was let go because they wanted to go another direction.
3. Albert Conell -- Was let go because he was a theif. Haslett gambled (although it was a very small gamble) and lost. But, he didn\'t run Conell out of town. Conell did that own his OWN.
4. Willie Roaf -- Roaf accused Joe Horn of sleeping with his wife. Roaf didn\'t want to stay here after that. Maybe bringing in Horn was a mistake. You have to decide that for yourself.
5. Kyle Turley -- The man was out of line. Totally out of control here in N.O. Haslett grew tired of it and shipped him off. I suppose Haslett could have kept him and worked things out. I don\'t miss Turley. Maybe some do.
6. Grady Jackson -- Haslett praised this guy and tried to work with him. Grady refused to lost weight and missed team meetings. Haslett fined him. Grady acted even worse. Haslett got rid or him. I don\'t blame him.

You call all of those problem players that had to be shipped out. But they weren\'t all shipped out because they were problem players. Also, this isn\'t unique to Haslett. Some coaches have way more serious problems with their players than Haslett. AND MORE.

WhoDat · 05-10-2004, 03:14 PM

Some coaches have way more serious problems with their players than Haslett. AND MORE.

Oh really? Who?

I\'d like to see a coach who has had more overweight players, more cancers, more players who have underperformed or not developed, more off-the-field antics, more collapses, less disciplined play (on the field) AND STILL MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS.

C\'mon Billy, show me those other coaches who have more problems than Haslett that are successful. And then, if you can (which I seriously doubt), explain to me why they could be successful with so many problems but Haslett can\'t be despite all this talent and fewer problems. I can\'t wait to hear this.

GumboBC · 05-10-2004, 03:21 PM

Some coaches have way more serious problems with their players than Haslett. AND MORE.

Oh really? Who?

I\'d like to see a coach who has had more overweight players, more cancers, more players who have underperformed or not developed, more off-the-field antics, more collapses, less disciplined play (on the field) AND STILL MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS.

C\'mon Billy, show me those other coaches who have more problems than Haslett that are successful. And then, if you can (which I seriously doubt), explain to me why they could be successful with so many problems but Haslett can\'t be despite all this talent and fewer problems. I can\'t wait to hear this.

While I\'m all about a good debate. You keep adding more and more to your arguement that has nothing to do with the original arguement.

Here\'s what I said, WhoDat:

You call all of those problem players that had to be shipped out. But they weren\'t all shipped out because they were problem players. Also, this isn\'t unique to Haslett. Some coaches have way more serious problems with their players than Haslett. AND MORE.

I can easily prove that. But then you wanted to add on to what I said, by saying this:

I\'d like to see a coach who has had more overweight players, more cancers, more players who have underperformed or not developed, more off-the-field antics, more collapses, less disciplined play (on the field) AND STILL MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS.

Where did that come from? Where did underperforming, not developed, and collapsed seasons get brought into it? You are getting off the subject of \"cancerous players.\"

The bottom line is that Haslett is about a .500 coach over a four year period. I can find a lot of coaches, who have been successful, but have a .500 record over a four year period.

WhoDat · 05-10-2004, 03:42 PM

Do all of those things not factor in Billy? Your view is far too myopic. You look at players being overweight and blame the players. You look at sloppy play one game and blame the o-line for jumping off-sides too much and not being focused. You look at players speaking out about the team and blame the player for being a loud mouth. You look at collapses, missed opportunities, poor off-season decisions, etc. etc. etc. and never seem to want to blame Haslett (although you have been better of recent I will admit). My point is simple - it\'s real easy to make your case when you are looking at only one thing. But when you step back and look at the big picture you see that these things are all connected. I won\'t say they all have the same source, but they are all brought back to ultimately being Haslett\'s responsibility (or at least failure in that area will have to be handled by him first and foremost).

Listen Bill, if this happened every once in a while, it might be different. If we were winning, I might be less critical, i admit that also. But when a team is overweight, undisciplined, and has the same needs at the same positions every single year over and over again it\'s more than a coincidence. It\'s a trend. Now who is responsible for that trend and what can be done to correct it?

[Edited on 10/5/2004 by WhoDat]

05-08-2004, 10:54 AM	#11
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight Aaron Brooks and chicken wings do seem to have about the same IQ. Think we can pull the wonderlic scores on both of them ???... :P
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

05-08-2004, 04:51 PM	#12
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight This is annoying me. We spent 2 FIRST round picks. TWO! Now I don\'t expect the guy to save the world, but I kinda expect a first rounder to give his best effort in the first 2-3 years of his career. I don\'t think its too much to ask. Secondly, why is he doing this? Did he always have this problem. Is so why did we select him so high in the draft and give up 2 picks if he was such a high risk? Or did he develop this problem in NO? If so, why is it our DL have the same problems with their weight in the last few years? Now I\'m not trying blame Haz for this entirely. But when a player you drafted in the first round after giving up another first rounder for doesn\'t produce or appear to be trying his best, thats a problem. whats the scoop here? Gator, Here\'s what I think -- You got a young guy coming out of college that\'s never had any money to speak of and all of a sudden, he\'s a multi-millionaire. He\'s got the big house and the nice car and all the distractions that go along with having money. The man thinks all of his hard work has paid off and he has arrived at the promised land. Now instead for working hard during the offseason, he kick backs and does his thing. The coaches need to get Sully on the right path. It is troubling when a young guy with so much promise doesn\'t take it on himself to be the best player he can be. Maybe John Pease can get through to the guy and push the right buttons.....
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-10-2004, 09:52 AM	#13
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight The coaches need to get Sully on the right path. Let me get this straight - you\'re suggesting that not only can the coaches influence Sullivan\'s weight and conditioning, but it is their responsibility to do so (or at least something that they SHOULD do if Sullivan proves he can\'t take care of himself)????
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

05-10-2004, 10:31 AM	#14
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight Let me get this straight - you\'re suggesting that not only can the coaches influence Sullivan\'s weight and conditioning, but it is their responsibility to do so (or at least something that they SHOULD do if Sullivan proves he can\'t take care of himself)???? I guess what I should have said is they need to TRY to do everything in their power to get Sully on the right path. They can\'t make him and ultimately it\'s on Sully as to the kind of player he wants to be. Now, I have a question for you WhoDat. What if Sully doesn\'t lose the weight? What do they do then?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-10-2004, 10:57 AM	#15
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight If Sully can\'t lose weight and it affects his play then he should be dealt to another team. Back to you: It\'s Haslett\'s responsibility to TRY - what if he fails? What if he fails with more than one player over and over again? Should anything happen to him for these failures? What does that say about him as a coach? Anything?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

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05-10-2004, 11:11 AM	#16
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight Maybe Bill Parcells can get Larry Allen\'s weight under control. He failed to do that last year.

05-10-2004, 02:43 PM	#17
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight If Sully can\'t lose weight and it affects his play then he should be dealt to another team. Back to you: It\'s Haslett\'s responsibility to TRY - what if he fails? What if he fails with more than one player over and over again? Should anything happen to him for these failures? What does that say about him as a coach? Anything? If Haslett fails over and over again, to an extreme, then something is wrong and he probably needs to go. IMO, what you and others have been doing is lumping the players into a catagory and not evaluating each one on an idividual basis. Heres\' the players that ya\'ll have brought up. 1. Joe Johnson -- Wasn\'t let go because he was a cancer. He was let go for money reasons. 2. Norman Hand -- Wasn\'t let go because he couldn\'t keep his weitht under control or because he was some kind of cancer. He was let go because they wanted to go another direction. 3. Albert Conell -- Was let go because he was a theif. Haslett gambled (although it was a very small gamble) and lost. But, he didn\'t run Conell out of town. Conell did that own his OWN. 4. Willie Roaf -- Roaf accused Joe Horn of sleeping with his wife. Roaf didn\'t want to stay here after that. Maybe bringing in Horn was a mistake. You have to decide that for yourself. 5. Kyle Turley -- The man was out of line. Totally out of control here in N.O. Haslett grew tired of it and shipped him off. I suppose Haslett could have kept him and worked things out. I don\'t miss Turley. Maybe some do. 6. Grady Jackson -- Haslett praised this guy and tried to work with him. Grady refused to lost weight and missed team meetings. Haslett fined him. Grady acted even worse. Haslett got rid or him. I don\'t blame him. You call all of those problem players that had to be shipped out. But they weren\'t all shipped out because they were problem players. Also, this isn\'t unique to Haslett. Some coaches have way more serious problems with their players than Haslett. AND MORE.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-10-2004, 03:14 PM	#18
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight Some coaches have way more serious problems with their players than Haslett. AND MORE. Oh really? Who? I\'d like to see a coach who has had more overweight players, more cancers, more players who have underperformed or not developed, more off-the-field antics, more collapses, less disciplined play (on the field) AND STILL MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS. C\'mon Billy, show me those other coaches who have more problems than Haslett that are successful. And then, if you can (which I seriously doubt), explain to me why they could be successful with so many problems but Haslett can\'t be despite all this talent and fewer problems. I can\'t wait to hear this.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

05-10-2004, 03:21 PM	#19
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight Some coaches have way more serious problems with their players than Haslett. AND MORE. Oh really? Who? I\'d like to see a coach who has had more overweight players, more cancers, more players who have underperformed or not developed, more off-the-field antics, more collapses, less disciplined play (on the field) AND STILL MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS. C\'mon Billy, show me those other coaches who have more problems than Haslett that are successful. And then, if you can (which I seriously doubt), explain to me why they could be successful with so many problems but Haslett can\'t be despite all this talent and fewer problems. I can\'t wait to hear this. While I\'m all about a good debate. You keep adding more and more to your arguement that has nothing to do with the original arguement. Here\'s what I said, WhoDat: You call all of those problem players that had to be shipped out. But they weren\'t all shipped out because they were problem players. Also, this isn\'t unique to Haslett. Some coaches have way more serious problems with their players than Haslett. AND MORE. I can easily prove that. But then you wanted to add on to what I said, by saying this: I\'d like to see a coach who has had more overweight players, more cancers, more players who have underperformed or not developed, more off-the-field antics, more collapses, less disciplined play (on the field) AND STILL MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS. Where did that come from? Where did underperforming, not developed, and collapsed seasons get brought into it? You are getting off the subject of \"cancerous players.\" The bottom line is that Haslett is about a .500 coach over a four year period. I can find a lot of coaches, who have been successful, but have a .500 record over a four year period.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-10-2004, 03:42 PM	#20
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Saints' former first-rounder Sullivan overweight Do all of those things not factor in Billy? Your view is far too myopic. You look at players being overweight and blame the players. You look at sloppy play one game and blame the o-line for jumping off-sides too much and not being focused. You look at players speaking out about the team and blame the player for being a loud mouth. You look at collapses, missed opportunities, poor off-season decisions, etc. etc. etc. and never seem to want to blame Haslett (although you have been better of recent I will admit). My point is simple - it\'s real easy to make your case when you are looking at only one thing. But when you step back and look at the big picture you see that these things are all connected. I won\'t say they all have the same source, but they are all brought back to ultimately being Haslett\'s responsibility (or at least failure in that area will have to be handled by him first and foremost). Listen Bill, if this happened every once in a while, it might be different. If we were winning, I might be less critical, i admit that also. But when a team is overweight, undisciplined, and has the same needs at the same positions every single year over and over again it\'s more than a coincidence. It\'s a trend. Now who is responsible for that trend and what can be done to correct it? [Edited on 10/5/2004 by WhoDat]
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"