Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick

02-20-2013, 01:36 PM

I really liked Dave Thomas. Best of luck Dave. Boy didi we wiff on Johnny Patrick.

Rugby Saint II · 02-20-2013, 02:14 PM

Our Patricks suck!!!

Somebody has to go........thanks Dave! Good luck if you file those concussion lawsuits.

FinSaint · 02-20-2013, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

In my opinion, I'm still not comfortable with him even in man coverage and he doesn't do a great job of "Blanketing Receivers" downfield, just look at what Dez Bryant did to him when we played dallas and Pat robinson was in man coverage both times
He made Pat Robinson look like a high school player trying to keep up with an NFL receiver
And not just once, he beat Robinson twice for 54 yards and a TD each time

I never claimed that he does or is capable of doing a "great job of blanketing receivers." What I said was that Robinson has great athleticism which, IMO, suits better man coverage where receivers need to be blanketed.

And I do agree with you that Robinson was terrible in that game covering Bryant, but the thing is that you can't just find guys off the street who can cover receivers like Bryant for as long as the Saints' front 7 was giving Romo to decide where to throw the ball, so who do you replace him with?And if my memory serves me right, Robinson was in position to make a play on both of those big plays, but unfortunately he didn't or failed in trying to make those plays, which is why I think he has the capability to be a solid #2 CB - he at least has the speed for it which Patrick lacked.

I'm all for upgrading every single player on the Saints' roster to a better player - if one can be found - but that is not possible even if the Saints had the cap room to do that, because elite players are just not available that often since teams tend to want to keep hold of them after they've been able to acquire such a player.

Anyway, I'm willing to give Robinson another chance to prove his worth to the team, and if anything, he'll provide some needed depth on the Saints' backfield.

I would love it if the Saints were able to bring in a bigger corner into the fold, someone they could put against those big receivers you listed. It would be excellent if the Saints were able to pick someone like Amerson (6-2) from the draft, but that would mean that they'd have to use their 1st round pick on him or trade back and use a gained 2nd rounder to pick him. Nevertheless, I still think that the defensive front is much more important to improve than the defensive backfield.

Seer1 · 02-20-2013, 06:49 PM

Haha! Who is the best TE available in the 15th slot?

hagan714 · 02-20-2013, 07:50 PM

New San Diego general manager Tom Telesco made a potentially intriguing move Wednesday by claiming cornerback Johnny Patrick off waivers from New Orleans.

CB-needy Chargers make claim - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN

Danno · 02-20-2013, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by hagan714

New San Diego general manager Tom Telesco made a potentially intriguing move Wednesday by claiming cornerback Johnny Patrick off waivers from New Orleans.

CB-needy Chargers make claim - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN

Well his cost is about the same as a street scrub. It certainly doesn't hurt them to give him a shot.

Seer1 · 02-20-2013, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by hagan714

New San Diego general manager Tom Telesco made a potentially intriguing move Wednesday by claiming cornerback Johnny Patrick off waivers from New Orleans.

CB-needy Chargers make claim - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN

And they somehow managed to figure out that Norv needed to go. Imagine.

burningmetal · 02-20-2013, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

The new scheme will utilize man-press coverage, not zone. Its just as different as the scheme change for the front 7.

The original question I responded to was why did we cut Patrick instead of Robinson. How it evolved into this discussion is puzzling.

I know we're switching to man. I said the difference between zone and man is not so great that you can't perform at least admirably, if you're actually a good player. It's not as complicated as all the moving around upfront in spags' system. Why did Spags' have success in New York, and even had fairly respectable Defenses with the Rams? Why were those players able to adjust to his system, but not ours? Because, apparently, those teams had better players on defense.

And how you can be confused as to how we are talking about this, is frankly puzzling to me. I get that you believe P-Rob is better than Patrick. I agree with that... Though it isn't saying much. But when you said that Robinson was not bad, and later tried to blame his problems on his coach, I highly disagreed with both those points. I don't think it's rocket science, is it?

burningmetal · 02-20-2013, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

I agree completely with Danno on this. During his 2nd year there was a noticeable improvement in how Robinson played, and that is definitely what you are looking in a 2nd year player. Robinson is clearly better suited for man coverage than zone, because he isn't physical enough to re-route receivers from the LOS, but he has great athleticism to blanket receivers down the field. I would be ready to place a monetary bet on the fact that Robinson's performances will improve quite a lot just by the Saints' backfield reverting back to a man coverage scheme, but I also think that he has taken a lot out of this past season's problems and will improve both mentally and physically for the coming season.

He did not play zone 100% of the time. You can go back and look at any coverage he was in, and see him get blown up. As I said in another post, I think teams were able to look at his film after his second season (because that was his first significant playing time) and exploit his weaknesses. Among other things, he bites on the hitch and go with tremendous regularity. He is also afraid to come up and hit somebody, which teams took advantage of with a lot of shorter routes, allowing their receivers to pile up the "YAC".

I really hope you and Danno are right about the scheme making a difference, but I just don't see how we can pawn off that level of suckage on just the scheme.

K Major · 02-20-2013, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

He did not play zone 100% of the time. You can go back and look at any coverage he was in, and see him get blown up. As I said in another post, I think teams were able to look at his film after his second season (because that was his first significant playing time) and exploit his weaknesses. Among other things, he bites on the hitch and go with tremendous regularity. He is also afraid to come up and hit somebody, which teams took advantage of with a lot of shorter routes, allowing their receivers to pile up the "YAC".

I really hope you and Danno are right about the scheme making a difference, but I just don't see how we can pawn off that level of suckage on just the scheme.

Rob Ryan will evaluate PRob much like he did Mike Jenkins and Orlando Scandrick at corner position in Dallas... unfortunately for them they simply weren't good enough so they were introduced to the bench and enter F/A Brandon Carr and draft pick Mo Claiborne. At some point, you can't keep shaking fingers on coaches, schemes or lack of an effective pass rush on his inability to perform. You either can play the position or you can't.

02-20-2013, 01:36 PM	#51
Threaded by QBREES9 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Haven Ct Posts: 23,985 Rating: (0 votes - average) I really liked Dave Thomas. Best of luck Dave. Boy didi we wiff on Johnny Patrick.
Views: 13878

02-20-2013, 02:14 PM	#52
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,073	Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick Our Patricks suck!!! Somebody has to go........thanks Dave! Good luck if you file those concussion lawsuits. K Major likes this.

02-20-2013, 05:31 PM	#53
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick Originally Posted by dizzle88 In my opinion, I'm still not comfortable with him even in man coverage and he doesn't do a great job of "Blanketing Receivers" downfield, just look at what Dez Bryant did to him when we played dallas and Pat robinson was in man coverage both times He made Pat Robinson look like a high school player trying to keep up with an NFL receiver And not just once, he beat Robinson twice for 54 yards and a TD each time I never claimed that he does or is capable of doing a "great job of blanketing receivers." What I said was that Robinson has great athleticism which, IMO, suits better man coverage where receivers need to be blanketed. And I do agree with you that Robinson was terrible in that game covering Bryant, but the thing is that you can't just find guys off the street who can cover receivers like Bryant for as long as the Saints' front 7 was giving Romo to decide where to throw the ball, so who do you replace him with?And if my memory serves me right, Robinson was in position to make a play on both of those big plays, but unfortunately he didn't or failed in trying to make those plays, which is why I think he has the capability to be a solid #2 CB - he at least has the speed for it which Patrick lacked. I'm all for upgrading every single player on the Saints' roster to a better player - if one can be found - but that is not possible even if the Saints had the cap room to do that, because elite players are just not available that often since teams tend to want to keep hold of them after they've been able to acquire such a player. Anyway, I'm willing to give Robinson another chance to prove his worth to the team, and if anything, he'll provide some needed depth on the Saints' backfield. I would love it if the Saints were able to bring in a bigger corner into the fold, someone they could put against those big receivers you listed. It would be excellent if the Saints were able to pick someone like Amerson (6-2) from the draft, but that would mean that they'd have to use their 1st round pick on him or trade back and use a gained 2nd rounder to pick him. Nevertheless, I still think that the defensive front is much more important to improve than the defensive backfield. Danno likes this.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

02-20-2013, 06:49 PM	#54
Seer1 Site Donor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bayou Bayfield CO Posts: 4,722	Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick Haha! Who is the best TE available in the 15th slot?

02-20-2013, 07:50 PM	#55
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick New San Diego general manager Tom Telesco made a potentially intriguing move Wednesday by claiming cornerback Johnny Patrick off waivers from New Orleans. CB-needy Chargers make claim - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN

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02-20-2013, 07:52 PM	#56
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick Originally Posted by hagan714 New San Diego general manager Tom Telesco made a potentially intriguing move Wednesday by claiming cornerback Johnny Patrick off waivers from New Orleans. CB-needy Chargers make claim - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN Well his cost is about the same as a street scrub. It certainly doesn't hurt them to give him a shot.

02-20-2013, 08:01 PM	#57
Seer1 Site Donor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bayou Bayfield CO Posts: 4,722	Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick Originally Posted by hagan714 New San Diego general manager Tom Telesco made a potentially intriguing move Wednesday by claiming cornerback Johnny Patrick off waivers from New Orleans. CB-needy Chargers make claim - NFL Nation Blog - ESPN And they somehow managed to figure out that Norv needed to go. Imagine.

02-20-2013, 09:51 PM	#58
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick Originally Posted by Danno The new scheme will utilize man-press coverage, not zone. Its just as different as the scheme change for the front 7. The original question I responded to was why did we cut Patrick instead of Robinson. How it evolved into this discussion is puzzling. I know we're switching to man. I said the difference between zone and man is not so great that you can't perform at least admirably, if you're actually a good player. It's not as complicated as all the moving around upfront in spags' system. Why did Spags' have success in New York, and even had fairly respectable Defenses with the Rams? Why were those players able to adjust to his system, but not ours? Because, apparently, those teams had better players on defense. And how you can be confused as to how we are talking about this, is frankly puzzling to me. I get that you believe P-Rob is better than Patrick. I agree with that... Though it isn't saying much. But when you said that Robinson was not bad, and later tried to blame his problems on his coach, I highly disagreed with both those points. I don't think it's rocket science, is it? K Major likes this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

02-20-2013, 09:58 PM	#59
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick Originally Posted by FinSaint I agree completely with Danno on this. During his 2nd year there was a noticeable improvement in how Robinson played, and that is definitely what you are looking in a 2nd year player. Robinson is clearly better suited for man coverage than zone, because he isn't physical enough to re-route receivers from the LOS, but he has great athleticism to blanket receivers down the field. I would be ready to place a monetary bet on the fact that Robinson's performances will improve quite a lot just by the Saints' backfield reverting back to a man coverage scheme, but I also think that he has taken a lot out of this past season's problems and will improve both mentally and physically for the coming season. He did not play zone 100% of the time. You can go back and look at any coverage he was in, and see him get blown up. As I said in another post, I think teams were able to look at his film after his second season (because that was his first significant playing time) and exploit his weaknesses. Among other things, he bites on the hitch and go with tremendous regularity. He is also afraid to come up and hit somebody, which teams took advantage of with a lot of shorter routes, allowing their receivers to pile up the "YAC". I really hope you and Danno are right about the scheme making a difference, but I just don't see how we can pawn off that level of suckage on just the scheme.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

02-20-2013, 10:18 PM	#60
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,622 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Holder: Saints Cut Dave Thomas, Johnny Patrick Originally Posted by burningmetal He did not play zone 100% of the time. You can go back and look at any coverage he was in, and see him get blown up. As I said in another post, I think teams were able to look at his film after his second season (because that was his first significant playing time) and exploit his weaknesses. Among other things, he bites on the hitch and go with tremendous regularity. He is also afraid to come up and hit somebody, which teams took advantage of with a lot of shorter routes, allowing their receivers to pile up the "YAC". I really hope you and Danno are right about the scheme making a difference, but I just don't see how we can pawn off that level of suckage on just the scheme. Rob Ryan will evaluate PRob much like he did Mike Jenkins and Orlando Scandrick at corner position in Dallas... unfortunately for them they simply weren't good enough so they were introduced to the bench and enter F/A Brandon Carr and draft pick Mo Claiborne. At some point, you can't keep shaking fingers on coaches, schemes or lack of an effective pass rush on his inability to perform. You either can play the position or you can't. halloween 65 and burningmetal like this.

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