neugey

Payton is taking baby steps with Khiry and it's good coaching. He now has some successful garbage time action. Perhaps the next step is just to throw him in for a carry or two in power sets in the first or second quarter as a quick change of pace. See how he does. Then try him in a few short-yardage situations and see how he responds. Then if he does well, start using him more frequently in the first half and power-run with him on first and second downs until we reach a third down, then switch to PT/Sproles for the rest of the drive. Toward the end of the season, begin to slowly find out if he can catch and pass-protect. That is essentially what we did with Ivory from what I remember.

Utah_Saint

Just my opinion,
I think pass protection comes first. If we only bring him in to run the ball, every team will stack the box against him. I think that's part of Ingram's problem. And if he can't pass protect when he's supposed to, then we don't want him back there.

Luda34

What took the Saints so look to put him in the game

Jack Vegas

You guys are vastly overthinking this.

Garbage time, not garbage time, this doesn't really matter. What really matters is what Robinson did with his limited touches, independent of anything else.

First carry: Run right, Khiry takes the handoff, sees there's nothing for him, sidesteps a little to the left. Mind you, he does all this in less than a second. Puts his head down, gets a few yards and makes something out of nothing. Whether the defense is gassed here or not is irrelevant; I suspect that if it had been in the second quarter with the score 7-7 it still would've been pretty much the same result.

Second carry: Run left, hits the hole hard, not much resistance but he shows a ton of speed here and really does a good job of using his blockers downfield to maximize the run.

Third carry: Run right. Again not a lot of resistance from the defensive line, but he breaks through the line quick, stiff-arms a safety down and drags a DB with him for a few extra yards.

Fourth carry: Run right, pretty much identical to the first carry, he cuts back against the grain. (This is pretty much PT's trademark move and is like 80% of the reason he is such a good back.) Robinson essentially makes 3 yards out of what should've been a 1 yard loss. He puts his head down, wriggles through one tackler and then absolutely destroys a linebacker to finish off the run.


To me, carries 1 and 4 are the most telling. You cannot say those runs were the result of bad defense. They were actually good defensive plays and it was only because of Robinson's creativity and instincts that they ended up being positive gains.

The problem with Ingram is not his size, speed, height or anything like that. It's his lack of instinct. You either have it or you don't. PT has it. Robinson has it. Deuce had it, then his legs gave out and he didn't have the physical ability to do what he wanted to anymore.

But Ingram definitely doesn't have it. I have NEVER seen Ingram cut back on a run in three years. If somebody thinks that makes me a hater, then I can live with that. The truth is I don't "hate" anybody but it is not hard to see why our other backs are successful while Ingram is not.

Tobias-Reiper

Then you proceed to over-think it yourself.
It does matter.
Again, I go to my example:
When a team runs the victory formation at the end of the game and the QB takes a knee, that counts as a running play, and counts as a defensive stop for a 2 yard loss. Is that the same as a 2 yard loss on a goal line stand? I don't think so.

ikecomp

While I agree it matters the situation he was in, I also believe if that had been ingram he wouldn't have done as well. So ultimately, the point remains that we think Krob is better. Only way to prove it is to give him some touches.

Tobias-Reiper

Who is saying anything about Ingram? Where did I mention Ingram?

ikecomp

You didn't mention ingram. I did. After all, the whole purpose of lobbying for krob is so that he can get ingram's touches. So it only makes since to mention ingram.

At any rate, this is a pretty simple discussion. From what you've seen of Ingram, do you think he will get better as the year goes on and why? I can tell you right now, if you're relying on the line to suddenly start blocking better you'll be waiting for a while. So assume he'll be running behind the same line all year as you think of your answer.

Jack Vegas

How so? I am simply showing you what Robinson does that is good; if a baseball player has a really good swing, then he can probably hit home runs off of good pitchers too, not just bad ones. Does Robinson have a good swing? Sure looks like it from what we've seen.

This analogy makes less than zero sense. I have re-read this sentence at least five times and I am still like "WTF is he talking about?" The two situations have absolutely nothing in common, except they are both things that take place on a football field.

TheOak

And Shiano doesn't recognize one of them LOL.