Khiry Robinson runs nasty

blackangold · 09-24-2013, 02:35 PM

Video of him...

Runs hard and is great catching balls out of the backfield. If he can stay healthy we have a diamond in the rough here.

Khiry Robinson RB - NFL Draft Promo - YouTube

Utah_Saint · 09-24-2013, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker

But do you have the stats on what personnel the defenses were playing? That's what most of us are missing out on. I'm willing to bet the first beer that Ingram faces more base defense with the front 7 made up of DL and LB's and also a safety in the box compared to the rest facing nickle and dime packages that employ more smaller DB's.

Nope, I don't have that info.

I'd be willing to bet your right.

TheOak · 09-24-2013, 03:17 PM

Ok so he gets more base defense... Settled.

What do we do? Get a RB that can get it done regardless or ask the opponent to not run Base Defense with 7 man front? Don't run at all if we see 7 up front?

I prefer to think he had an aggravated injury than he is rather useless against a seven man front. .

Utah_Saint · 09-24-2013, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker

But do you have the stats on what personnel the defenses were playing? That's what most of us are missing out on. I'm willing to bet the first beer that Ingram faces more base defense with the front 7 made up of DL and LB's and also a safety in the box compared to the rest facing nickle and dime packages that employ more smaller DB's.

Last season Ingram lined up for 268 offensive snaps. Of those he rushed the ball 156 times. That's 58% of the time he came off the bench, he rushed the ball. That's the highest percentage in the NFL (of the 59 half backs with over 200 carries). Other than Ingram, only Stevan Ridley of the Patriots was over 50%.

Rush/Snap %
1 Mark Ingram 58.2%
2 Stevan Ridley 51.8%
3 Jammal Charles 47.9%
4 Bernard Pierce 47.6%
5 Shonn Green 47.3%

The league average was 34% for that same set of backs.

More than any other back in the NFL, if Mark Ingram was in, the play was likely to be a run. And with those kinds of percentages, it's logical to assume that defenses were told to play the run whenever number 28 was on the field.

(posted back in June)

Boutte · 09-24-2013, 05:32 PM

I just don't understand how anybody can have watched Ingram for two years and sees anything more than an average (at best) RB.

And the "every time he comes it's a run" arguement goes right out the window when look at what Ivory did when given a chance because it was the same situation for him.

Jack Vegas · 09-24-2013, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Boutte

And the "every time he comes it's a run" arguement goes right out the window when look at what Ivory did when given a chance because it was the same situation for him.

Even moreso. The percentage of rushing plays when Ivory was in the game was something like 8 percent higher than Ingram, IIRC. There was a very good thread about this on Footballguys or Rotoworld a while back, illuminating stuff.

TheOak · 09-24-2013, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

Last season Ingram lined up for 268 offensive snaps. Of those he rushed the ball 156 times. That's 58% of the time he came off the bench, he rushed the ball. That's the highest percentage in the NFL (of the 59 half backs with over 200 carries). Other than Ingram, only Stevan Ridley of the Patriots was over 50%.

Rush/Snap %
1 Mark Ingram 58.2%
2 Stevan Ridley 51.8%
3 Jammal Charles 47.9%
4 Bernard Pierce 47.6%
5 Shonn Green 47.3%

The league average was 34% for that same set of backs.

More than any other back in the NFL, if Mark Ingram was in, the play was likely to be a run. And with those kinds of percentages, it's logical to assume that defenses were told to play the run whenever number 28 was on the field.

(posted back in June)

That is what happens when that is all you can do. Should we let him punt?

Jack Vegas · 09-24-2013, 06:01 PM

The thread I mentioned earlier: Saints use of Mark Ingram borders on criminal - Page 3 - The Shark Pool (NFL Talk) - Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Highlights:

Not a pretty picture... top 10 carries/snaps for RB with more than 18 snaps + Ingram @ 18
Snps Carries PCT YPC
mathews 20 13 0.650 2.5
cj2k 43 25 0.581 2.8
williams 31 17 0.548 5.1
f jax 26 13 0.500 5.2
ingram 18 9 0.500 1.2
mccoy 65 31 0.477 5.9
spiller 37 17 0.459 2.4
mendenhall 35 16 0.457 3.8
tate 20 9 0.450 6.1
charles 36 16 0.444 4.8

For his career, Ivory is averaging an astonishing 5.1 yards per carry (compared to the 3.9 of Ingram) despite the fact that when he's in the game it's a telltale sign the Saints are running (74.9 percent of his snaps were on running plays), letting the offense key in on him.

I am not lamenting that we traded away Ivory, but when you see he still managed over 5.1 yards a carry even though his carry-to-snap ratio is a full 15% higher than Ingram (74 vs. 59), the "Ingram always faces 8 man fronts" argument becomes pretty much indefensible.

dueceloose · 09-24-2013, 06:08 PM

Any videos of Khiry running vs Cards

Jack Vegas · 09-24-2013, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by dueceloose

Any videos of Khiry running vs Cards

Do you know how to do torrents?

Every week for the last 4-5 years I download games from tenyardtorrents.com to watch/study. They have some kinda tricky rules about how much you are supposed to upload vs. download but it's absolutely the best way to get game footage.

09-24-2013, 02:50 PM	#82
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty Originally Posted by Budsdrinker But do you have the stats on what personnel the defenses were playing? That's what most of us are missing out on. I'm willing to bet the first beer that Ingram faces more base defense with the front 7 made up of DL and LB's and also a safety in the box compared to the rest facing nickle and dime packages that employ more smaller DB's. Nope, I don't have that info. I'd be willing to bet your right.

09-24-2013, 03:17 PM	#83
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty Ok so he gets more base defense... Settled. What do we do? Get a RB that can get it done regardless or ask the opponent to not run Base Defense with 7 man front? Don't run at all if we see 7 up front? I prefer to think he had an aggravated injury than he is rather useless against a seven man front. .

09-24-2013, 04:21 PM	#84
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty Originally Posted by Budsdrinker But do you have the stats on what personnel the defenses were playing? That's what most of us are missing out on. I'm willing to bet the first beer that Ingram faces more base defense with the front 7 made up of DL and LB's and also a safety in the box compared to the rest facing nickle and dime packages that employ more smaller DB's. Last season Ingram lined up for 268 offensive snaps. Of those he rushed the ball 156 times. That's 58% of the time he came off the bench, he rushed the ball. That's the highest percentage in the NFL (of the 59 half backs with over 200 carries). Other than Ingram, only Stevan Ridley of the Patriots was over 50%. Rush/Snap % 1 Mark Ingram 58.2% 2 Stevan Ridley 51.8% 3 Jammal Charles 47.9% 4 Bernard Pierce 47.6% 5 Shonn Green 47.3% The league average was 34% for that same set of backs. More than any other back in the NFL, if Mark Ingram was in, the play was likely to be a run. And with those kinds of percentages, it's logical to assume that defenses were told to play the run whenever number 28 was on the field. (posted back in June)

09-24-2013, 05:32 PM	#85
Boutte Site Donor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belle Chasse Posts: 1,701	Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty I just don't understand how anybody can have watched Ingram for two years and sees anything more than an average (at best) RB. And the "every time he comes it's a run" arguement goes right out the window when look at what Ivory did when given a chance because it was the same situation for him. ChrisXVI likes this.

09-24-2013, 05:35 PM	#86
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty Originally Posted by Boutte And the "every time he comes it's a run" arguement goes right out the window when look at what Ivory did when given a chance because it was the same situation for him. Even moreso. The percentage of rushing plays when Ivory was in the game was something like 8 percent higher than Ingram, IIRC. There was a very good thread about this on Footballguys or Rotoworld a while back, illuminating stuff.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

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09-24-2013, 05:40 PM	#87
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty Originally Posted by Utah_Saint Last season Ingram lined up for 268 offensive snaps. Of those he rushed the ball 156 times. That's 58% of the time he came off the bench, he rushed the ball. That's the highest percentage in the NFL (of the 59 half backs with over 200 carries). Other than Ingram, only Stevan Ridley of the Patriots was over 50%. Rush/Snap % 1 Mark Ingram 58.2% 2 Stevan Ridley 51.8% 3 Jammal Charles 47.9% 4 Bernard Pierce 47.6% 5 Shonn Green 47.3% The league average was 34% for that same set of backs. More than any other back in the NFL, if Mark Ingram was in, the play was likely to be a run. And with those kinds of percentages, it's logical to assume that defenses were told to play the run whenever number 28 was on the field. (posted back in June) That is what happens when that is all you can do. Should we let him punt?

09-24-2013, 06:01 PM	#88
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty The thread I mentioned earlier: Saints use of Mark Ingram borders on criminal - Page 3 - The Shark Pool (NFL Talk) - Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums Highlights: Not a pretty picture... top 10 carries/snaps for RB with more than 18 snaps + Ingram @ 18 Snps Carries PCT YPC mathews 20 13 0.650 2.5 cj2k 43 25 0.581 2.8 williams 31 17 0.548 5.1 f jax 26 13 0.500 5.2 ingram 18 9 0.500 1.2 mccoy 65 31 0.477 5.9 spiller 37 17 0.459 2.4 mendenhall 35 16 0.457 3.8 tate 20 9 0.450 6.1 charles 36 16 0.444 4.8 For his career, Ivory is averaging an astonishing 5.1 yards per carry (compared to the 3.9 of Ingram) despite the fact that when he's in the game it's a telltale sign the Saints are running (74.9 percent of his snaps were on running plays), letting the offense key in on him. I am not lamenting that we traded away Ivory, but when you see he still managed over 5.1 yards a carry even though his carry-to-snap ratio is a full 15% higher than Ingram (74 vs. 59), the "Ingram always faces 8 man fronts" argument becomes pretty much indefensible.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

09-24-2013, 06:08 PM	#89
dueceloose 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 957	Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty Any videos of Khiry running vs Cards
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09-24-2013, 06:15 PM	#90
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Khiry Robinson runs nasty Originally Posted by dueceloose Any videos of Khiry running vs Cards Do you know how to do torrents? Every week for the last 4-5 years I download games from tenyardtorrents.com to watch/study. They have some kinda tricky rules about how much you are supposed to upload vs. download but it's absolutely the best way to get game footage. Boutte likes this.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

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