I have a riddle for you

TheOak · 11-05-2013, 06:26 PM

If I throw the phrases: "new coach", "new scheme", "wrong personnel", "staying with it for too long"...

Which Saints group am I talking about, the 2012 defense or the 2013 offensive line?

Answer ~ Both!

The thread about "what did greenbay do..." made me think about something.

When you look up zone blocking on the internet the first thing it says is "In a zone blocking scheme, fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities in offensive linemen." Then I look at Brown and both knees in braces, Strieff, DLP, Evans hamstring and back slow him down... I do not see fleet-footed anywhere in that group.

Our offensive line is suffering from the same exact thing our defense suffered from last year. Personnel and scheme do not match.

Ive seen this same question asked a whole lot also "how can our offensive line get so bad in one year"? Easy.... Implement a scheme that doesn't fit our personnel.

I will narrow it a little further. What aspect does our offensive line suffer the most in? Run Blocking. Zone blocking is a run blocking scheme and not a pass blocking scheme... We are still ok at pass blocking when we are not injured.

We are not built like this describes:

Zone blocking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Zone blocking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Therefore we can not do what this describes:
Football 201: Understanding the Zone Blocking Scheme - Behind the Steel Curtain

The only question that remains for me: How long will we continue to try and do what we are not built to do?

blackangold · 11-05-2013, 06:50 PM

couldn't agree more.

Is it even viable to change our scheme mid-season though?

xan · 11-05-2013, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

couldn't agree more.

Is it even viable to change our scheme mid-season though?

We better.

burningmetal · 11-05-2013, 07:01 PM

Some of it is scheme. The rest of it is injury and lack of talent being exposed. Offensive lines get studied by opponents just as any other position. Over the years we've done a lot of patch work strategies to cover up the lack of talent, but those tactics are starting to dry out.

Evans is a real talent, but is not fully healthy. After him, there is not a single starter on that line who is really a legitimate NFL lineman. Armstead fits this scheme with his agility, but (apparently) he isn't ready technique-wise.

Danno · 11-05-2013, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

couldn't agree more.

Is it even viable to change our scheme mid-season though?

Well considering this same unit ran gap for their entire careers here, it shouldn't be a huge problem.

Also: We don't exclusively run zone, we just run a lot more of it than we ever did.

We weren't all that damn good at gap either, but a lot better than the clusterfark we're seeing now.

Danno · 11-05-2013, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Some of it is scheme. The rest of it is age and lack of talent being exposed. Offensive lines get studied by opponents just as any other position. Over the years we've done a lot of patch work strategies to cover up the lack of talent, but those tactics are starting to dry out.

Evans is a real talent, but is not fully healthy. After him, there is not a single starter on that line who is really a legitimate NFL lineman. Armstead fits this scheme with his agility, but (apparently) he isn't ready technique-wise.

You just lost every ounce of credibility you had with that statement. That statement is ridiculous.

C'mon man, you can do better than that crap. I've seen it.

TheOak · 11-05-2013, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

couldn't agree more.

Is it even viable to change our scheme mid-season though?

Which would you chose?

1. Continue the way we are.
2. Use last years scheme since we have last years personnel except for Brown.
3. Pay for a cancerous abscess in your groin?

Thanks Xan, that will be an option on all Polls from now on.

Mr.Riaton · 11-05-2013, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

If I throw the phrases: "new coach", "new scheme", "wrong personnel", "staying with it for too long"...

Which Saints group am I talking about, the 2012 defense or the 2013 offensive line?

Answer ~ Both!

The thread about "what did greenbay do..." made me think about something.

When you look up zone blocking on the internet the first thing it says is "In a zone blocking scheme, fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities in offensive linemen." Then I look at Brown and both knees in braces, Strieff, DLP, Evans hamstring and back slow him down... I do not see fleet-footed anywhere in that group.

Our offensive line is suffering from the same exact thing our defense suffered from last year. Personnel and scheme do not match.

Ive seen this same question asked a whole lot also "how can our offensive line get so bad in one year"? Easy.... Implement a scheme that doesn't fit our personnel.

I will narrow it a little further. What aspect does our offensive line suffer the most in? Run Blocking. Zone blocking is a run blocking scheme and not a pass blocking scheme... We are still ok at pass blocking when we are not injured.

We are not built like this describes:
Zone blocking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Therefore we can not do what this describes:
Football 201: Understanding the Zone Blocking Scheme - Behind the Steel Curtain

The only question that remains for me: How long will we continue to try and do what we are not built to do?

....so,your saying its not Ingrams fault?

exile · 11-05-2013, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

You just lost every ounce of credibility you had with that statement. That statement is ridiculous.

C'mon man, you can do better than that crap. I've seen it.

Well that wasn't nice Danno Incognito

Mr.Riaton · 11-05-2013, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by exile

Well that wasn't nice Danno Incognito

Now thats funny right there, I dont care who you are!

11-05-2013, 06:50 PM	#2
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: I have a riddle for you couldn't agree more. Is it even viable to change our scheme mid-season though?

11-05-2013, 06:55 PM	#3
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,371 Blog Entries: 34	Re: I have a riddle for you Originally Posted by blackangold couldn't agree more. Is it even viable to change our scheme mid-season though? We better. saintfan likes this.

11-05-2013, 07:01 PM	#4
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: I have a riddle for you Some of it is scheme. The rest of it is injury and lack of talent being exposed. Offensive lines get studied by opponents just as any other position. Over the years we've done a lot of patch work strategies to cover up the lack of talent, but those tactics are starting to dry out. Evans is a real talent, but is not fully healthy. After him, there is not a single starter on that line who is really a legitimate NFL lineman. Armstead fits this scheme with his agility, but (apparently) he isn't ready technique-wise. hagan714 likes this.

11-05-2013, 07:01 PM	#5
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Re: I have a riddle for you Originally Posted by blackangold couldn't agree more. Is it even viable to change our scheme mid-season though? Well considering this same unit ran gap for their entire careers here, it shouldn't be a huge problem. Also: We don't exclusively run zone, we just run a lot more of it than we ever did. We weren't all that damn good at gap either, but a lot better than the clusterfark we're seeing now. saintfan likes this.

11-05-2013, 07:04 PM	#6
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Re: I have a riddle for you Originally Posted by burningmetal Some of it is scheme. The rest of it is age and lack of talent being exposed. Offensive lines get studied by opponents just as any other position. Over the years we've done a lot of patch work strategies to cover up the lack of talent, but those tactics are starting to dry out. Evans is a real talent, but is not fully healthy. After him, there is not a single starter on that line who is really a legitimate NFL lineman. Armstead fits this scheme with his agility, but (apparently) he isn't ready technique-wise. You just lost every ounce of credibility you had with that statement. That statement is ridiculous. C'mon man, you can do better than that crap. I've seen it.

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11-05-2013, 07:12 PM	#7
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: I have a riddle for you Originally Posted by blackangold couldn't agree more. Is it even viable to change our scheme mid-season though? Which would you chose? 1. Continue the way we are. 2. Use last years scheme since we have last years personnel except for Brown. 3. Pay for a cancerous abscess in your groin? Thanks Xan, that will be an option on all Polls from now on.

11-05-2013, 07:32 PM	#8
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,264	Re: I have a riddle for you Originally Posted by TheOak If I throw the phrases: "new coach", "new scheme", "wrong personnel", "staying with it for too long"... Which Saints group am I talking about, the 2012 defense or the 2013 offensive line? Answer ~ Both! The thread about "what did greenbay do..." made me think about something. When you look up zone blocking on the internet the first thing it says is "In a zone blocking scheme, fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities in offensive linemen." Then I look at Brown and both knees in braces, Strieff, DLP, Evans hamstring and back slow him down... I do not see fleet-footed anywhere in that group. Our offensive line is suffering from the same exact thing our defense suffered from last year. Personnel and scheme do not match. Ive seen this same question asked a whole lot also "how can our offensive line get so bad in one year"? Easy.... Implement a scheme that doesn't fit our personnel. I will narrow it a little further. What aspect does our offensive line suffer the most in? Run Blocking. Zone blocking is a run blocking scheme and not a pass blocking scheme... We are still ok at pass blocking when we are not injured. We are not built like this describes: Zone blocking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Therefore we can not do what this describes: Football 201: Understanding the Zone Blocking Scheme - Behind the Steel Curtain The only question that remains for me: How long will we continue to try and do what we are not built to do? ....so,your saying its not Ingrams fault? saintfan and hagan714 like this.

11-05-2013, 07:36 PM	#9
exile Cake or Death? Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 3,608	Re: I have a riddle for you Originally Posted by Danno You just lost every ounce of credibility you had with that statement. That statement is ridiculous. C'mon man, you can do better than that crap. I've seen it. Well that wasn't nice Danno Incognito jeanpierre and Mr.Riaton like this.
exile Cake or Death? Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 3,608

11-05-2013, 07:39 PM	#10
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,264	Re: I have a riddle for you Originally Posted by exile Well that wasn't nice Danno Incognito Now thats funny right there, I dont care who you are!

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