Attn: Ingram Naysayers
 

Move to Atlanta.

If you can't be loyal to your own team, don't be anything.

Just move to a lame place such as Detroit, Dallas or Atlanta.

Loyalty proves honor, RIGHT?

I'm glad our team hung in with Ingram.

I'm glad P Thomas took him under his wing and showed loyalty to a team mate.

Perhaps that'll teach SOME of you a thing or two about honor and loyalty.

Two Dat.

Dance with the one who brung ya.

Good Job Ingram!

Re: Attn: Ingram Naysayers
 

I have been an Ingram supporter. But the way this thread reads we should have kept Jason David.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/155602/JD_medium.jpg

Re: Attn: Ingram Naysayers
 

I don't think this is a question of peoples loyalty to their team, Players are payed to produce, our O line finally got it together and Ingram had a great game

However I would not question the loyalty of the members on this board, you are fighting an uphill battle there

Do you expect fans to be happy that Garrett Hartley has missed 7 of his last 8 FG's? As a fan, we have rights to be P***ed off when the players don't produce

And when they are not happy with Garrett Hartley, would you say move to atlanta? Players are paid to produce, I hope Ingram and the O line carry on like they did vs dallas but its not a loyalty matter what so ever

Re: Attn: Ingram Naysayers
 

i beg to differ. it is indeed a matter of loyalty.

there are many who have "badmouthed" ingram in this forum regardless if you can admit it. the threads are still there.

not one fan could replace ingram, is my guess.

i trust the coaches far more than any fair weather fans...

their own words prove their character, regardless if others see that.

Re: Attn: Ingram Naysayers
 

Re: Attn: Ingram Naysayers
 

So if I say garrett hartley sucks and should be cut because he's dangerously close to costing us games, would I be counted as unloyal and a fair weather fan? Just because the coaching staff are sticking by him and he's still our starting kicker?

Re: Attn: Ingram Naysayers
 

Loyalty has nothing to do with Honour/Honor and loyalty to a team is different then loyalty to a player. If you are loyal to a player then you are going to find your self wearing many different Jerseys in your lifetime.

In contrast to your train of thought Choup, voicing a negative opinion about a player that is preforming badly is proving loyalty to the team... Maintaining loyalty to an under preforming player actually shows that the "team" comes second in your priorities.

Players come and go, and unless you are the Rams, Raiders, Oilers, Colts, Browns, or Raiders.. Your team has always been in the same city with the same name. (There are a few more but they are not in the last 4 decades)

Regardless of form, it doesn't show any disloyalty. Telling fans to jump to another wagon does show a little about character though.

Re: Attn: Ingram Naysayers
 

One thing I will say is that the desire and work ethic have always been there for Ingram. You can tell he cares passionately about the team and the game. It seemed like he was a man on a mission the other night. He was very hard to bring down. Yes, there were holes in Dallas' defensive line, but Ingram was still on fire.

Now if he can do even a serviceable job against the 49ers stout defense, I'll really be convinced.

Re: Attn: Ingram Naysayers
 

He's a pro.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

He probably mounts his fish.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

First time opening this thread and Im not going to bother reading all 50 pages but I will add my 2 cents.

Ingram's showing was great and all but I hated it. Now the staff will think they need to give him his fair touches and he has already proven he is average at best. PT is the more polished/serviceable back. Nothing good will come of this and its not a loyalty issue. If anything its the fans being loyal to the franchise. The ingram experiment failed a long time ago.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

This post has nothing to do with anything, just a stroll down memory lane.... but I'm sorry, I can't hear the words "carry the pile" without thinking about THIS---


One of my all time favorite plays ever witnessed in the Dome, period. Look at how depressed #29 for the Eagles looks, after the play -- his body language, he can't believe what just happened.

Re: Attn: Ingram Naysayers
 

Not liking a player because he doesnt get the job done is not being disloyal. Just because a player is on the team doesnt mean he is the best option if he sucks. I think most of us want Ingram to succeed, but he has proven he can't get it done on a regular basis. Hell I hope this was his breakout game and the light finally clicked on, but after 3 years I doubt it.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

I wouldn't be so quick to think that our Front Office is sold just yet. What I expect is they will go with the hot hand against the 49ers to start and see how it plays out. If he stalls then PT will get his carries as long as he is gaining.

*Caveat - I still from memory think we switched back to man/gap run blocking against Dallas, and if we did then Katy bar the door because we will have another 100+ yard rushing game.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

I REALLY hope this is the case and a matter of adjustment and not just a fluke against a Dallas ****ty banged up D. It would be awesome if Payton has found a way to make this unit better. If our line can play like that the rest of the year we will get to the SB. Guaranteed.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

I cant find anything that says we changed anything and someone would have pointed it out.

I do know one thing from playing o-line.. It HAS to be cohesive and that takes time. There is the possibility that our o-line is now healthy and they gelled after the Jets game finally. In witch case there are many great things to come.

Again, its like synchronized swilling; all in unison and its beautiful. Just one person doing his own thing and it looks like cr4p and defenders get into our back field.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

While that sounds good going with the hot hand it seems to have burned us one to many times. It seems to eventually turn into no one back getting into rhythm so we go even more pass heavy which is never good. Im kind of generalizing here but I hope im wrong.

However, its been proven that we are OK with PT and sporles mixing it up. 2's company, 3's a crowd.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

RB rhythm is a myth/

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

or even a blind squirrel finds a nut?
Finally had good blocking from the o-line and Jed.
We'll see, love to see that every week.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

So after a ton of Ingram threads we have come to the conclusion.

If the line doesn't block, he cant run. If the line blocks then he can run... Then again so could any RB.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

Exactly, this is where all the angst comes from. Ingram didn't make any great cuts, break any tackles, do anything that any of our other backs couldn't have done on his way to his career day. We could have gotten this performance from an undrafted free agent - but we got it from a guy who cost us a first (2012) and second round (2011) pick. The angst is the opportunity cost given up that could have been used for much bigger needs.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

Well he sure hits the hole faster than our other RBs not named Sproles. While I agree to the o-line blocking/not blocking, when they do block I sure like to see a flash of 22 with his little legs churning through that hole. I find him a good change up to Sproles and PT23. With those 3 we should be ready for playoff celebrations.

Edit: I forgot to mention the Schlitz that will be required.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

I prefer to view it as I saw it.

When he got the hand-off, he was immediately surrounded by multiple defenders. When the other RB's got the hand-off, they were not immediately surrounded by defenders.

I don't care how or why that kept happening, but it had to stop. Against Dallas he wasn't immediately surrounded by defenders after the hand-off.

I don't know what changed with our blocking, or if anything changed, but when he wasn't surrounded by defenders 3 yards behind the line, he ran as expected.

It should also be noted that our other RB's did indeed struggle behind this O-line this year. He wasn't the only one who had a hard time.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

This is by Far the stupidest thing I've heard today ... He Broke over 7 Tackles , Made 3 or 4 Great Cuts at the second level and never got tackled by just one defender , Before you open your mouth you should review the film ... It took on average 5 Cowboys to bring him down. Even on his 1 yard run the Announcer was amazed at how many Defenders it took to fully impede his progress. The guy Flat out looked like Adrian Peterson ... PT and Sproles got the same blocking but didn't average over 5 that game , INGRAM was a sure fire 1st down averaging 10 yards every time he got the ball ... How can one be this blind ?

The even sadder thing about this is , If we could've blocked for Reggie Like this , He would've been the USC Reggie Bush we all loved so much. Running backs don't have a say in how productive they are , they line does.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

Intersting stat...

All of 2012 and 2013 combined
Sproles - 4.51 per carry
Thomas - 4.16 per carry
Ingram - 4.17 per carry

For just 2013...
Sproles - 3.7 per carry
Thomas - 3.8 per carry
Ingram - 5.6 per carry

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

I have watched the game twice and if you think he did anything Adrian Peterson like then I think we know who has blinders on. Even if he did every thing you said he did, was he worth the picks given?

NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

Selective Data?

Ingram

2012 3.9 YPC
2011 3.9 YPC

Would you be against the thought that 2013 being only 4 games and 35 carries all season is a little weighted?

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

Yep.:p

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

That was uncalled for. So I'll reply, that's only because this is your first reply of the day.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

to be fair...

Career
313 attempts - 1,271 yards - 4.1 yards per carry.

Those are average numbers for a running back. Not good, not bad, just about average.

And while Sundays great performance was only one game against a terrible defense, there are 29 more games in that average and some of those games were against very good defenses.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

I was ready to turn on Mark Ingram. I'll never doubt him again. I agree with Danno. He's usually met by a host of defenders. When he's not he's excellent. I also believe we need to keep him in there longer. He should only be rotated out when tired, or for Sproles plays.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

I'm not an Ingram hater, but when we're not facing a horrible defense this weekend and his stat line reverts back to the usual 10 carries for 20 yards... I think we'll have a little more perspective again and not call people who have been critical of Ingram 'fair weather fans.'

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

Even if he does have a few decent games sprinkled in its not going to make up for the 3 years of crap he has shown us thus far.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

Calling someone stupid and then saying ingram looked like Adrian Peterson .... ah.... okay. If Peterson had that same blocking you would be looking at 250+ and 2 or 3 tds..

Ingram did well but your getting carried away.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

I have stated many times that Mark Ingram is an average running back, nothing more or less. Very few fans manage their expectations of him though.. He has 1 great game and he is compared to Marshawn Lynch.. fans are called haters... and we should all of a sudden turn over the work load to him. He has bad games and the opposite crowd says he needs to be traded, or benched.

If fans would recognize him for what he is there wouldn't be the roller coaster of reactions. He was a first round Heisman trophy winning draft pick and with that comes very high expectations, so in regards to expectations he has yet to succeed.

The difference between Ingram and Thomas is not YPC.. its that PT came in as an undrafted free agent and earned his passes by grinding out great running back play. Ingram came in as a first round draft pick and hasn't earned a pass on a bad game, or strung enough good games together to change many peoples perception of him, and that my friend is it in a nut shell.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

For me personally, I view it as too many people claim he's a bust, he's awful, he's the worst in the NFL, cut him now.

I think what we're seeing is just a backlash against the extreme negativity and misinformed hate toward him earlier.

He's not nearly as "great" as some have recently suggested, but he damn sure was nowhere near as bad as many kept harping on.

And where he was drafted has nothing to do with how good or bad Mark Ingram is as a RB.

And PT isn't some cheap off the street RB anymore. He was given an 11 million contract a few years ago. Ingram is our 3rd highest paid RB behind Sproles/Thomas.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

The subjective aspect is something I had to work on... As you know I am firmly grounded in empirical data.

Great and bad are subjective terms and that is very much dependent on expectations and the perception of value.

What spurred a good majority of the bad taste for Ingram? It wasn't his YPC, it was all of the 1-2 yard First down markers, and 2-3 yard TDs he failed to get.

Now, Ingram says he can do better, a lot of people including out Front Office think he can do better... if they didn't he wouldn't have been drafted.

All that is left it for him to prove it. Dallas was a fantastic start but if he doesn't continue, are he and Hartley going to sit next to each other on the plane for the next 10 seasons?

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

If he stays healthy, he'll be exactly what everyone wants him to be. He just needs the carries. I like that swing pass they threw him too.

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

No, I think what you're seeing is the normal fan who looks at one game and concludes that as an entire body of work. Pull the post about Vince Young after the national title win- nearly the entire board swore he was the greatest thing since forever.

Agreed, but when you give what we gave you're expected to be great.. fair or not

Re: NEW Mark Ingram thread (post Dallas)
 

I think he would do a lot better if they would call the plays at the right time and be more balanced with running a run game, of course the blocking needs to get better but there are multiple things that come into play