This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere

papz · 12-31-2013, 09:24 AM

Pass rush my friend... it makes a world of a difference.

With all the knocking of our safeties, I wouldn't mind having either back... just not at a premium price point.

Danno · 12-31-2013, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by nola_swammi

Of 113 graded corners, Jabari Greer graded best at 60th overall. This average don't make him one of the worst it make him just average

Are you sure you aren't using 2013 stats?
Here's the final 2012 rankings for our defenders...
Defensive Ends out of 109
Jordan 66
Smith 108
Galette 19
Wilson 33

DT out of 148
Bunkley 29
Ellis 118
Akiem Hicks 29
Johnson 42

Outside Linebackers Out of 109
Vilma 100
Hawthorne 102
Casillas 59
Wilson 81
Herring 87
Shanle 95

Inside linebackers out of 112
Lofton 104
Wilson (1 snap) 43

CB's out of 217
Greer 113
Robinson 193
Mack 72
White 203
Patrick 205
Murphy 70

Safeties out of 168
Harper 167
Jenkins 168
Bush 22
Abdul- Quddus 57

jeanpierre · 12-31-2013, 09:52 AM

From those numbers, we need to make Bush our starter which many on this site posted/felt he had outplayed Jenkins and Harper...

But the problem of receivers running by Harper and Jenkins is still there - awkward/non-fluid hips...

Vaccaro and Bush would be great building blocks because they can actually provide honest to very good coverage against deep receivers...

But the Pass Rush is night and day and as big part of the improved Pass Defense because we got younger on the front line and Will Smith was blocking the younger guys from making it happen...

Now if White with more snaps/experience can improve technique of jamming receivers at the line with his size (as good defenses have done to our receivers) we're really gonna get better at defense...

Still have a hole at ILB with Lofton's porous coverage...

Danno · 12-31-2013, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

From those numbers, we need to make Bush our starter which many on this site posted/felt he had outplayed Jenkins and Harper...

But the problem of receivers running by Harper and Jenkins is still there - awkward/non-fluid hips...

Vaccaro and Bush would be great building blocks because they can actually provide honest to very good coverage against deep receivers...

But the Pass Rush is night and day and as big part of the improved Pass Defense because we got younger on the front line and Will Smith was blocking the younger guys from making it happen...

Now if White with more snaps/experience can improve technique of jamming receivers at the line with his size (as good defenses have done to our receivers) we're really gonna get better at defense...

Still have a hole at ILB with Lofton's porous coverage...

Bush only played a handful of snaps in 2012 so that grade is skewed, but I agree he does look good. Everyone was falling all over IAQ before the season started but Bush kept getting all the playing time. Ryan definitely saw something he liked.

You can completely ignore all of those 2012 stats, they are meaningless because of Spags system.

halloween 65 · 12-31-2013, 09:59 AM

I've said before Rob Ryans scheme has made Jenkins look better than he really is but now teams have found weak spots and Jenkins is one of the weak spots, He could not hide him forever. We need a FS in the draft and another ILB.

dizzle88 · 12-31-2013, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

Bush only played a handful of snaps in 2012 so that grade is skewed, but I agree he does look good. Everyone was falling all over IAQ before the season started but Bush kept getting all the playing time. Ryan definitely saw something he liked.

You can completely ignore all of those 2012 stats, they are meaningless because of Spags system.

Bush just seems to make plays whenever he is in the game, he doesnt do anything amazing but he's very good at alot of areas

Danno · 12-31-2013, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

I've said before Rob Ryans scheme has made Jenkins look better than he really is but now teams have found weak spots and Jenkins is one of the weak spots, He could not hide him forever. We need a FS in the draft and another ILB.

Maybe so, but I'm not buying that all of a sudden teams discovered a weakness in MJ. These are some of the smartest football minds on the planet. If he was a glaring weakness they'd throw toward him every play.

But I agree wholeheartedly about ILB. We need speed, we have none. Hawthorne has OK speed, but he's not that heat seeking missile we need.

jeanpierre · 12-31-2013, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

Bush only played a handful of snaps in 2012 so that grade is skewed, but I agree he does look good. Everyone was falling all over IAQ before the season started but Bush kept getting all the playing time. Ryan definitely saw something he liked.

You can completely ignore all of those 2012 stats, they are meaningless because of Spags system.

Vaccaro definitely was the replacement (and needed) for Harper in most packages before Harper's injury; though I'll say they ran some three safety/dime packages against Matt Ryan et al that confused the shat out of 'em and we're effective; but you can't just ignore the Spags system, getting younger and faster is as important as scheme...

Jenkins has completely shat his pant in his transition year, so he's likely gone unless he comes back at a discount and as a nickel back (like Meachem first round pick, supporting role - what a "fail"); I'd prefer to re-sign Bush over Jenkins at the FS spot with a high draft pick to solidfy the backstop...

Sure did like Elbert Mack from that season; he was the lone bright spot in that Giants game when Harper and Jenkins were chasing seemingly everyone from behind or whiffing against David Wilson...

blackangold · 12-31-2013, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by lee909

If Harper and Jenkins are as bad as some want to make out we wouldn't have just seen the Defense jump from one of the 2 worst in the league to one of the top 5 this year.

This statement makes no sense at all...

Vaccaro was the starting SS even when Harper was healthy. Bush took over for Jenkins in the 3 S sets and Jenkins usually was dropping in the box.

All that aside if you want to credit them for this year success (even though we drafted a 1st rounder to take their place) then you have to credit them for last years failure.

Danno · 12-31-2013, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

This statement makes no sense at all...

Vaccaro was the starting SS even when Harper was healthy. Bush took over for Jenkins in the 3 S sets and Jenkins usually was dropping in the box.

All that aside if you want to credit them for this year success (even though we drafted a 1st rounder to take their place) then you have to credit them for last years failure.

Vaccaro started at NB week 1 and week 2, and Harper/Jenkins were the starting safeties for both games.

http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamece...O_Gamebook.pdf
http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamece...B_Gamebook.pdf

Harper got hurt and Vaccaro took over at SS in week 3, Jenkins remained the starter at FS.

12-31-2013, 09:24 AM	#41
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere Pass rush my friend... it makes a world of a difference. With all the knocking of our safeties, I wouldn't mind having either back... just not at a premium price point.

12-31-2013, 09:38 AM	#42
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere Originally Posted by nola_swammi Of 113 graded corners, Jabari Greer graded best at 60th overall. This average don't make him one of the worst it make him just average Are you sure you aren't using 2013 stats? Here's the final 2012 rankings for our defenders... Defensive Ends out of 109 Jordan 66 Smith 108 Galette 19 Wilson 33 DT out of 148 Bunkley 29 Ellis 118 Akiem Hicks 29 Johnson 42 Outside Linebackers Out of 109 Vilma 100 Hawthorne 102 Casillas 59 Wilson 81 Herring 87 Shanle 95 Inside linebackers out of 112 Lofton 104 Wilson (1 snap) 43 CB's out of 217 Greer 113 Robinson 193 Mack 72 White 203 Patrick 205 Murphy 70 Safeties out of 168 Harper 167 Jenkins 168 Bush 22 Abdul- Quddus 57

12-31-2013, 09:52 AM	#43
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere From those numbers, we need to make Bush our starter which many on this site posted/felt he had outplayed Jenkins and Harper... But the problem of receivers running by Harper and Jenkins is still there - awkward/non-fluid hips... Vaccaro and Bush would be great building blocks because they can actually provide honest to very good coverage against deep receivers... But the Pass Rush is night and day and as big part of the improved Pass Defense because we got younger on the front line and Will Smith was blocking the younger guys from making it happen... Now if White with more snaps/experience can improve technique of jamming receivers at the line with his size (as good defenses have done to our receivers) we're really gonna get better at defense... Still have a hole at ILB with Lofton's porous coverage...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

12-31-2013, 09:55 AM	#44
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere Originally Posted by jeanpierre From those numbers, we need to make Bush our starter which many on this site posted/felt he had outplayed Jenkins and Harper... But the problem of receivers running by Harper and Jenkins is still there - awkward/non-fluid hips... Vaccaro and Bush would be great building blocks because they can actually provide honest to very good coverage against deep receivers... But the Pass Rush is night and day and as big part of the improved Pass Defense because we got younger on the front line and Will Smith was blocking the younger guys from making it happen... Now if White with more snaps/experience can improve technique of jamming receivers at the line with his size (as good defenses have done to our receivers) we're really gonna get better at defense... Still have a hole at ILB with Lofton's porous coverage... Bush only played a handful of snaps in 2012 so that grade is skewed, but I agree he does look good. Everyone was falling all over IAQ before the season started but Bush kept getting all the playing time. Ryan definitely saw something he liked. You can completely ignore all of those 2012 stats, they are meaningless because of Spags system.

12-31-2013, 09:59 AM	#45
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere I've said before Rob Ryans scheme has made Jenkins look better than he really is but now teams have found weak spots and Jenkins is one of the weak spots, He could not hide him forever. We need a FS in the draft and another ILB.

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12-31-2013, 10:02 AM	#46
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,208	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere Originally Posted by Danno Bush only played a handful of snaps in 2012 so that grade is skewed, but I agree he does look good. Everyone was falling all over IAQ before the season started but Bush kept getting all the playing time. Ryan definitely saw something he liked. You can completely ignore all of those 2012 stats, they are meaningless because of Spags system. Bush just seems to make plays whenever he is in the game, he doesnt do anything amazing but he's very good at alot of areas jeanpierre likes this.

12-31-2013, 10:05 AM	#47
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere Originally Posted by halloween 65 I've said before Rob Ryans scheme has made Jenkins look better than he really is but now teams have found weak spots and Jenkins is one of the weak spots, He could not hide him forever. We need a FS in the draft and another ILB. Maybe so, but I'm not buying that all of a sudden teams discovered a weakness in MJ. These are some of the smartest football minds on the planet. If he was a glaring weakness they'd throw toward him every play. But I agree wholeheartedly about ILB. We need speed, we have none. Hawthorne has OK speed, but he's not that heat seeking missile we need.

12-31-2013, 11:12 AM	#48
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere Originally Posted by Danno Bush only played a handful of snaps in 2012 so that grade is skewed, but I agree he does look good. Everyone was falling all over IAQ before the season started but Bush kept getting all the playing time. Ryan definitely saw something he liked. You can completely ignore all of those 2012 stats, they are meaningless because of Spags system. Vaccaro definitely was the replacement (and needed) for Harper in most packages before Harper's injury; though I'll say they ran some three safety/dime packages against Matt Ryan et al that confused the shat out of 'em and we're effective; but you can't just ignore the Spags system, getting younger and faster is as important as scheme... Jenkins has completely shat his pant in his transition year, so he's likely gone unless he comes back at a discount and as a nickel back (like Meachem first round pick, supporting role - what a "fail"); I'd prefer to re-sign Bush over Jenkins at the FS spot with a high draft pick to solidfy the backstop... Sure did like Elbert Mack from that season; he was the lone bright spot in that Giants game when Harper and Jenkins were chasing seemingly everyone from behind or whiffing against David Wilson...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

12-31-2013, 03:22 PM	#49
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere Originally Posted by lee909 If Harper and Jenkins are as bad as some want to make out we wouldn't have just seen the Defense jump from one of the 2 worst in the league to one of the top 5 this year. This statement makes no sense at all... Vaccaro was the starting SS even when Harper was healthy. Bush took over for Jenkins in the 3 S sets and Jenkins usually was dropping in the box. All that aside if you want to credit them for this year success (even though we drafted a 1st rounder to take their place) then you have to credit them for last years failure.

12-31-2013, 03:30 PM	#50
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: This is why Malcolm Jenkins isn't going anywhere Originally Posted by blackangold This statement makes no sense at all... Vaccaro was the starting SS even when Harper was healthy. Bush took over for Jenkins in the 3 S sets and Jenkins usually was dropping in the box. All that aside if you want to credit them for this year success (even though we drafted a 1st rounder to take their place) then you have to credit them for last years failure. Vaccaro started at NB week 1 and week 2, and Harper/Jenkins were the starting safeties for both games. http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamece...O_Gamebook.pdf http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamece...B_Gamebook.pdf Harper got hurt and Vaccaro took over at SS in week 3, Jenkins remained the starter at FS. TheOak likes this.

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