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Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by lee909 Im a little confused and down right bored with this thought process that Jimmy played in the slot so is a WR rather than a TE. What does Slot Receiver Mean? A type of receiver in ...

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Old 04-10-2014, 12:48 PM   #1
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Re: Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

Originally Posted by lee909 View Post
Im a little confused and down right bored with this thought process that Jimmy played in the slot so is a WR rather than a TE.



What does Slot Receiver Mean?
A type of receiver in football who lines up between the split end ("X receiver") and flanker ("Z receiver") and the center and is eligible to receive the ball. This type of receiver is also known as a "slot receiver" or "tight end".

Wes Welker, Percy Harvin, Danny Amendola, and Victor Cruz are all examples of top notch slot receivers.


Slot Receiver Definition
Sporting Charts explains Slot Receiver
A Y receiver will be lined up between the split end or the flanker and the linemen. The position on the field is determined by which of the other receivers the Y receiver is paired up with. If paired with a flanker, the Y receiver will be on the scrimmage line. If paired with a split end, the Y receiver will be off the line of scrimmage.

Y receivers specialize in either catching the ball and being an outlet receiver or blocking and being part of the running game. As an outlet receiver, the Y receiver will catch the ball should the quarterback not have the time to find a receiver. For a Y receiver in the running game, the priority will be to block and open a path to the runner with the ball.


Slot receiver (Y or SL): A less-formal name given to receivers in addition to split ends and flankers (for example, tight-ends who line up wide). These receivers line up between the split end/flanker and the linemen. If aligned with a flanker, the slot receiver is usually on the line of scrimmage, and if with a split end, off the line of scrimmage. As with the flanker position, a featured receiver often takes a slot position with a split end to avoid jamming.


Considering the era he played in the stats of Graham and a HOF TE Kellen Winslow are similar.At his peak in a more physical NFL he was a 85-90 Reception,1100 yards,8-11 TD receiving TE. Playing today he would be putting up numbers that shame every TE in the league.


Since when did a man that only played 22% of his snaps outside the traditional Inline TE and the Slot actually become a WR.By that logic im guessing that Tony Gonzalez will not be entering the HOF as a TE or Winslow was put in on the wrong position?

Brandon Gibson
Randell Cobb
Eddie Royal
Wes Welker
Tavon Austin
Jericho Cotchery
all lined up at the wide out position LESS than Graham did.

Jason Avant
Danny Amendola
Santana Moss
lined up wide about the same percentage of the time as Graham.

Wouldn't they all have be designated as Tight Ends?
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:10 PM   #2
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Re: Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint View Post
Brandon Gibson
Randell Cobb
Eddie Royal
Wes Welker
Tavon Austin
Jericho Cotchery
all lined up at the wide out position LESS than Graham did.

Jason Avant
Danny Amendola
Santana Moss
lined up wide about the same percentage of the time as Graham.

Wouldn't they all have be designated as Tight Ends?
Which shows the point that the league is changing.
The old TE of just sitting down on the line and blocking doesnt exists.
Maybe there is a case for the TE position to not exists anymore and for receivers are just put into one group but while the position exists a player drafted as a TE,listed as a TE,played Probowls as a TE makes,all Pro as a TE he is a TE
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:35 PM   #3
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Re: Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

Originally Posted by lee909 View Post
Which shows the point that the league is changing.
The old TE of just sitting down on the line and blocking doesnt exists.
Maybe there is a case for the TE position to not exists anymore and for receivers are just put into one group but while the position exists a player drafted as a TE,listed as a TE,played Probowls as a TE makes,all Pro as a TE he is a TE
I agree that there needs to be an overall change to player designations, but, in my opinion, a player needs to have the right challange his designation. Or, the player should have the right to refuse to play in certain positions if it's going to reduce the amount of money he will be paid.

The quickest way to change is if someone challanges the old system. Teams won't, they don't want to pay more for receiving tight ends. Wide receivers won't because they don't want to risk falling down into the "slot" receiver if that means they'd make less than a wide receiver. The league might but they're pretty busy re evalutating the point after.

There's no good way to define receivers anymore. Sean Payton refers to the franchise tag system as "antiquated." Says it was only a matter of time before a guy like Jimmy Graham battled it.
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:43 PM   #4
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Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint View Post
Brandon Gibson

Randell Cobb

Eddie Royal

Wes Welker

Tavon Austin

Jericho Cotchery

all lined up at the wide out position LESS than Graham did.



Jason Avant

Danny Amendola

Santana Moss

lined up wide about the same percentage of the time as Graham.



Wouldn't they all have be designated as Tight Ends?


What you are missing about lee's post is that "slot receiver" is not a Wide Receiver position, it is not a position of any sort, it is a role that multiple positions line up in TE, RB, WR.



Similar to holder for the place kicker... Scat back is not a position either.



Graham didnt line up as a tackle which is a position, he lined up in a role.

The CBA outlines the positions, if a guard plays tackle then that is a position, not a role.

Last edited by TheOak; 04-10-2014 at 01:52 PM..
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:58 PM   #5
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Re: Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
What you are missing about lee's post is that "slot receiver" is not a Wide Receiver position, it is not a position of any sort, it is a role that multiple positions line up in TE, RB, WR.



Similar to holder for the place kicker... Scat back is not a position either.



Graham didnt line up as a tackle which is a position, he lined up in a role.

The CBA outlines the positions, if a guard plays tackle then that is a position, not a role.
I didn't miss it. As a matter of fact, that's the whole point.

Graham lined up as a wide out more than any of those players. Why would they be any more of a wideout than Graham.
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:20 PM   #6
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Re: Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint View Post
I didn't miss it. As a matter of fact, that's the whole point.

Graham lined up as a wide out more than any of those players. Why would they be any more of a wideout than Graham.
You are still missing it. "Slot Receiver" is not a Wide Receiver owned role. He didn't line up as a Wide Receiver, he lined up as a slot...

Just because traditionally a Wide Receiver lines up in the slot doesn't make it a Wide Receiver position... Just line a kick returner is not a Wide Receiver even though that role is normally played by Wide Receivers.
2013 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN

In the strict language of the CBA there is no such position as a "wide out" or a "slot receiver".


BTW Jimmy Graham has the right to challenge and has chosen not to.
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It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

Last edited by TheOak; 04-10-2014 at 02:25 PM..
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:46 PM   #7
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Re: Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
You are still missing it. "Slot Receiver" is not a Wide Receiver owned role. He didn't line up as a Wide Receiver, he lined up as a slot...

Just because traditionally a Wide Receiver lines up in the slot doesn't make it a Wide Receiver position... Just line a kick returner is not a Wide Receiver even though that role is normally played by Wide Receivers.
2013 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN

In the strict language of the CBA there is no such position as a "wide out" or a "slot receiver".


BTW Jimmy Graham has the right to challenge and has chosen not to.
No, once again, I'm not missing it. Maybe if I put it this way.

Try not to think about the time at slot receiver.

Why would player A that only lines up wide 20% of the time be a wide receiver and player B that lines up at the wide receiver spot 25% not be a wide receiver?

Yes, I realize Graham hasn't filed a grievance. I don't think he will. Losing the appeal would cost him more in the negotiations than winning it could gain him. This is purely theoretical.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:17 PM   #8
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Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint View Post
No, once again, I'm not missing it. Maybe if I put it this way.



Try not to think about the time at slot receiver.



Why would player A that only lines up wide 20% of the time be a wide receiver and player B that lines up at the wide receiver spot 25% not be a wide receiver?



Yes, I realize Graham hasn't filed a grievance. I don't think he will. Losing the appeal would cost him more in the negotiations than winning it could gain him. This is purely theoretical.

Correct me if I an wrong but the % are not in favor of Graham being a WR based on him lining up at the Z/X/WR, they are only for the Y/Slot Receiver.


Slot is between the Tackle and Wide Receiver.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slotback

So is TE
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tight_end


Most of the talking heads are lumping Slot and WR snap counts together. Jimmy's true WR snap count is lower than 50%.

Look at how it is framed in the header.. "Slot is *traditionally* a WR, but they do make the distinction of the two.


http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/b...43&src=desktop


This may be clearer.... Lance Moore and Jimmy Graham both play a lot of slot; one is a WR, the other is a TE.

The difference between Tight End and Slot is only whether he is on or off the line.... The difference between WR and Slot is 5-8 yards is say.

If Jimmy line up in the slot/Y more than 50% he is a TE, if he was an X/Z/WR more than 50% then he has an argument.

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau
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