Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal

TheOak · 04-10-2014, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

Brandon Gibson

Randell Cobb

Eddie Royal

Wes Welker

Tavon Austin

Jericho Cotchery

all lined up at the wide out position LESS than Graham did.

Jason Avant

Danny Amendola

Santana Moss

lined up wide about the same percentage of the time as Graham.

Wouldn't they all have be designated as Tight Ends?

What you are missing about lee's post is that "slot receiver" is not a Wide Receiver position, it is not a position of any sort, it is a role that multiple positions line up in TE, RB, WR.

Similar to holder for the place kicker... Scat back is not a position either.

Graham didnt line up as a tackle which is a position, he lined up in a role.

The CBA outlines the positions, if a guard plays tackle then that is a position, not a role.

Utah_Saint · 04-10-2014, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

What you are missing about lee's post is that "slot receiver" is not a Wide Receiver position, it is not a position of any sort, it is a role that multiple positions line up in TE, RB, WR.

Similar to holder for the place kicker... Scat back is not a position either.

Graham didnt line up as a tackle which is a position, he lined up in a role.

The CBA outlines the positions, if a guard plays tackle then that is a position, not a role.

I didn't miss it. As a matter of fact, that's the whole point.

Graham lined up as a wide out more than any of those players. Why would they be any more of a wideout than Graham.

TheOak · 04-10-2014, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

I didn't miss it. As a matter of fact, that's the whole point.

Graham lined up as a wide out more than any of those players. Why would they be any more of a wideout than Graham.

You are still missing it. "Slot Receiver" is not a Wide Receiver owned role. He didn't line up as a Wide Receiver, he lined up as a slot...

Just because traditionally a Wide Receiver lines up in the slot doesn't make it a Wide Receiver position... Just line a kick returner is not a Wide Receiver even though that role is normally played by Wide Receivers.
2013 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN

In the strict language of the CBA there is no such position as a "wide out" or a "slot receiver".

BTW Jimmy Graham has the right to challenge and has chosen not to.

Utah_Saint · 04-10-2014, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

You are still missing it. "Slot Receiver" is not a Wide Receiver owned role. He didn't line up as a Wide Receiver, he lined up as a slot...

Just because traditionally a Wide Receiver lines up in the slot doesn't make it a Wide Receiver position... Just line a kick returner is not a Wide Receiver even though that role is normally played by Wide Receivers.
2013 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN

In the strict language of the CBA there is no such position as a "wide out" or a "slot receiver".

BTW Jimmy Graham has the right to challenge and has chosen not to.

No, once again, I'm not missing it. Maybe if I put it this way.

Try not to think about the time at slot receiver.

Why would player A that only lines up wide 20% of the time be a wide receiver and player B that lines up at the wide receiver spot 25% not be a wide receiver?

Yes, I realize Graham hasn't filed a grievance. I don't think he will. Losing the appeal would cost him more in the negotiations than winning it could gain him. This is purely theoretical.

TheOak · 04-10-2014, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

No, once again, I'm not missing it. Maybe if I put it this way.

Try not to think about the time at slot receiver.

Why would player A that only lines up wide 20% of the time be a wide receiver and player B that lines up at the wide receiver spot 25% not be a wide receiver?

Yes, I realize Graham hasn't filed a grievance. I don't think he will. Losing the appeal would cost him more in the negotiations than winning it could gain him. This is purely theoretical.

Correct me if I an wrong but the % are not in favor of Graham being a WR based on him lining up at the Z/X/WR, they are only for the Y/Slot Receiver.

Slot is between the Tackle and Wide Receiver.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slotback

So is TE
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tight_end

Most of the talking heads are lumping Slot and WR snap counts together. Jimmy's true WR snap count is lower than 50%.

Look at how it is framed in the header.. "Slot is *traditionally* a WR, but they do make the distinction of the two.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/b...43&src=desktop

This may be clearer.... Lance Moore and Jimmy Graham both play a lot of slot; one is a WR, the other is a TE.

The difference between Tight End and Slot is only whether he is on or off the line.... The difference between WR and Slot is 5-8 yards is say.

If Jimmy line up in the slot/Y more than 50% he is a TE, if he was an X/Z/WR more than 50% then he has an argument.

04-10-2014, 01:43 PM	#1
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal Originally Posted by Utah_Saint Brandon Gibson Randell Cobb Eddie Royal Wes Welker Tavon Austin Jericho Cotchery all lined up at the wide out position LESS than Graham did. Jason Avant Danny Amendola Santana Moss lined up wide about the same percentage of the time as Graham. Wouldn't they all have be designated as Tight Ends? What you are missing about lee's post is that "slot receiver" is not a Wide Receiver position, it is not a position of any sort, it is a role that multiple positions line up in TE, RB, WR. Similar to holder for the place kicker... Scat back is not a position either. Graham didnt line up as a tackle which is a position, he lined up in a role. The CBA outlines the positions, if a guard plays tackle then that is a position, not a role.
	Last edited by TheOak; 04-10-2014 at 01:52 PM..

04-10-2014, 01:58 PM	#2
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal Originally Posted by TheOak What you are missing about lee's post is that "slot receiver" is not a Wide Receiver position, it is not a position of any sort, it is a role that multiple positions line up in TE, RB, WR. Similar to holder for the place kicker... Scat back is not a position either. Graham didnt line up as a tackle which is a position, he lined up in a role. The CBA outlines the positions, if a guard plays tackle then that is a position, not a role. I didn't miss it. As a matter of fact, that's the whole point. Graham lined up as a wide out more than any of those players. Why would they be any more of a wideout than Graham.

04-10-2014, 02:20 PM	#3
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	Re: Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal Originally Posted by Utah_Saint I didn't miss it. As a matter of fact, that's the whole point. Graham lined up as a wide out more than any of those players. Why would they be any more of a wideout than Graham. You are still missing it. "Slot Receiver" is not a Wide Receiver owned role. He didn't line up as a Wide Receiver, he lined up as a slot... Just because traditionally a Wide Receiver lines up in the slot doesn't make it a Wide Receiver position... Just line a kick returner is not a Wide Receiver even though that role is normally played by Wide Receivers. 2013 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN In the strict language of the CBA there is no such position as a "wide out" or a "slot receiver". BTW Jimmy Graham has the right to challenge and has chosen not to. Joker likes this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau Last edited by TheOak; 04-10-2014 at 02:25 PM..

04-10-2014, 02:46 PM	#4
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal Originally Posted by TheOak You are still missing it. "Slot Receiver" is not a Wide Receiver owned role. He didn't line up as a Wide Receiver, he lined up as a slot... Just because traditionally a Wide Receiver lines up in the slot doesn't make it a Wide Receiver position... Just line a kick returner is not a Wide Receiver even though that role is normally played by Wide Receivers. 2013 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN In the strict language of the CBA there is no such position as a "wide out" or a "slot receiver". BTW Jimmy Graham has the right to challenge and has chosen not to. No, once again, I'm not missing it. Maybe if I put it this way. Try not to think about the time at slot receiver. Why would player A that only lines up wide 20% of the time be a wide receiver and player B that lines up at the wide receiver spot 25% not be a wide receiver? Yes, I realize Graham hasn't filed a grievance. I don't think he will. Losing the appeal would cost him more in the negotiations than winning it could gain him. This is purely theoretical.

04-10-2014, 03:17 PM	#5
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	Loomis: No deadline for Graham deal Originally Posted by Utah_Saint No, once again, I'm not missing it. Maybe if I put it this way. Try not to think about the time at slot receiver. Why would player A that only lines up wide 20% of the time be a wide receiver and player B that lines up at the wide receiver spot 25% not be a wide receiver? Yes, I realize Graham hasn't filed a grievance. I don't think he will. Losing the appeal would cost him more in the negotiations than winning it could gain him. This is purely theoretical. Correct me if I an wrong but the % are not in favor of Graham being a WR based on him lining up at the Z/X/WR, they are only for the Y/Slot Receiver. Slot is between the Tackle and Wide Receiver. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slotback So is TE http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tight_end Most of the talking heads are lumping Slot and WR snap counts together. Jimmy's true WR snap count is lower than 50%. Look at how it is framed in the header.. "Slot is traditionally a WR, but they do make the distinction of the two. http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/b...43&src=desktop This may be clearer.... Lance Moore and Jimmy Graham both play a lot of slot; one is a WR, the other is a TE. The difference between Tight End and Slot is only whether he is on or off the line.... The difference between WR and Slot is 5-8 yards is say. If Jimmy line up in the slot/Y more than 50% he is a TE, if he was an X/Z/WR more than 50% then he has an argument.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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