Originally Posted by Utah_Saint (Post 597576)

Just curious, where did you hear he was demanding twice what the team is offering?

Originally Posted by burningmetal (Post 597574)

This guy doesn't get it. But he clearly thinks he's above all understanding.

I won't say Graham is downright greedy, but I will say he's selfish. Is there a difference? Not much, but I guess it doesn't sound as harsh.

Here's the point this guy is missing. When the average person asks for a raise it's only a dollar or maybe a few dollars depending on what kind of job you have. So I don't blame Jimmy for wanting more money, and he obviously earned himself a hefty raise from what he WAS making. And he was going to get just that. How many people get a raise worth millions of dollars? But the problem is he doesn't stop there. He wants to almost double what the team is offering.

If I walk up to my boss and say "hey boss, I want you to double my salary, because I think I deserve it more than anyone else here"... Would you simply say that I'm trying to do what's best for me, or would you call me a douche bag? There's a difference between fairness and exorbitance. You might even say Greed.

I'm a capitalist, and I think it's a great system when properly used. But even in capitalism there are limits to what people can do. You have the right to earn and work your way up, but you can't just arbitrarily decide that you suddenly deserve way more than somebody thinks you're worth. You are free to request it, as he has... But it doesn't look good on you when you're asking price is beyond reason.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 597578)

Okay, look at the text above that is in bold.



First, show me any offer made by the Saints to Jimmy Graham that he turned down.

Second, show me any demand from Jimmy Graham that is not only what you claim is double what you purport that the Saints offered.

Third, show me any demand concerning an upcoming contract from Jimmy Graham whatsoever.

I am serious. Post proof right here and now of any of these. And I am not talking suppositions from internet bloggers, I am talking actual verifiable quotes or documentation from Jimmy Graham.

You do that and you can call him a "douche bag". You do that and you can declare he has "Greed".

Originally Posted by burningmetal (Post 597577)

I said he is asking nearly twice what they are offering. As I understand it the franchise tag is somewhere around 7 million, unless I'm off on that. But he wants to be designated as a WR so that he can make 12 million.

Originally Posted by burningmetal (Post 597577)

I said he is asking nearly twice what they are offering. As I understand it the franchise tag is somewhere around 7 million, unless I'm off on that. But he wants to be designated as a WR so that he can make 12 million.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 597581)

No. The NFLPA had issue with the NFL league office's designation on the tag as a TE. As a little background, when a team franchises a player that is all they do. They inform the NFL that they have placed the tag. The league determines the designation. The NFLPA saw an opportunity to flex a little muscle and jumped on it. They filed a grievance "on behalf of Jimmy Graham" challenging the designation. This in no way came from Graham.

As far as Graham is concerned personally, he wants the same thing as the Saints, to sign a long term deal. That deal will be no where as low as the TE tag, nor as high as the WR tag. But, that deal will be made.

All of this crap is NFLPA driven. Put the blame where it belongs.

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint (Post 597582)

Just my opinion but the 12 million for the WR designation is like a counter offer against the 7 million TE designation.

Makes sense, 7 mill per year is far below market value and 12 is above. In a negotiation, if someone lowballs you, you counter with more than you want. In the end you negotiate down to what you expect.

PFF's Jahnke Value Model put Graham at $12.3 million last year.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...vm-tight-ends/

Originally Posted by burningmetal (Post 597580)

Where do I start with you? You're the second person in a row who has ignored the ALMOST in that statement. Secondly they OFFERED him the franchise tender, of which he has not signed, because he thinks he's worth WR money, and the numbers don't back his claim.

It doesn't have to be a long term offer to be classified an offer. Is that clear enough for you? And I also didn't call him greedy. But he's in a grey area. If you want to try to read between the lines and tell me what you think I mean, go right ahead. I'm not concerned with your interpretation.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 597585)

No, the franchise offer is simply a placeholder in most cases until a deal can be made. Remember Brees?

But, you ignored my three requests. Okay, you did, in sorts, address the first, but even the Saints know he is worth FAR more than a TE tag, which, by the way, they didn't determine. The NFL did.

More important are the second two queries.

We know the second can't be answered. but how about the last?

Third, show me any demand concerning an upcoming contract from Jimmy Graham whatsoever.

Show me this one? Show me any demand at all from Jimmy Graham.

Any.

Originally Posted by burningmetal (Post 597583)

The NFLPA acts on a player's request. They are lawyers. Have you ever had a lawyer defend you without being prompted by your request?

Don't tell me that Jimmy can't accept at any time. Of course he wants a long term deal. And he's asking for what the Saints don't seem willing or able to pay.