Media Agenda???

BlackandBlue · 12-16-2004, 02:12 PM

3 posts in a row by JKool? You were on record pace until saintswhodi stepped in.
And I told all you asses about the use of the \"A\" word- don\'t make me edit posts!!!

JKool · 12-16-2004, 03:38 PM

BnB,

I was thinking of adding a fourth that said this:

That\'s four BnB... I think I can do it...

But Whodi cut me off. Good thing too, I imagine?!

saintfan · 12-16-2004, 04:08 PM

I\'d like to know where 08 is too. He left right about the time the word agenda got banned. I know he wasn\'t happy to see the screws get tightened, but I don\'t know if that\'s what ultimately happened to him or not. He and I used to bicker back and forth pretty good until other people got involved.

Regarding Brooks, I don\'t think anyone here is purposely giving the man a free pass. What I and a few of the other more prominant \"sunshiners\" have done is defend him against comments like, \"Our TE\'s suck because of Brooks\" or \"Our Recievers suck because of Brooks\", or \"Our Line sucks because of Brooks\" or \"Our RB is off this year because of Brooks\" or \"Our defense sucks because of Brooks\". It goes on and on.

Funny thing about this \"stepping away from center\" argument that cropped up recently. Was that a problem last year? I don\'t reacall it being an issue, and certainly I don\'t recall anyone ever bringing it up before. So, we should ask ourselves what changed. What changed is the guy snapping the ball. To this point no one has mentioned that. These are the things I bring to the table from time to time and get blasted for.

Anyone see who\'s done the name calling in this thread so far?

saintswhodi · 12-16-2004, 04:22 PM

Actually saintfan, Kool and I touched on the possibility of Bentley having something to do with it.

The question is, is it Brooks\' fault just for mismanaging snaps(remember all the phanton fumbles last year) or is it Bentley\'s fault? That\'s the million dollar question, submitted to you Gumbo

That\'s mine. Here\'s Kool:

The second one may be forgiveable. If you were knocked for mishandling the snap all the time and known for putting the ball on the carpet all the time, you might take an extra moment to take care of that. I hypothesize that this may be Bentley\'s fault and not Brooks. The center exchange may be awkward. I have no evidence for this other than it didn\'t seem to be such a problem last year.

We both submitted it may not all be AB, but Butters does seem to have a problem holding on to the ball. LeCharles has played center before, but I would agree he was better suited at guard. Regardless, it has been 13 games, an offseason and a bye week, and Brooks has not complained about Bentley\'s snaps. He has been good for proclaiming false love and \"evaluating his situation,\" but surely if I am being blamed for fumbles I would place the blame where it belonged, no? Isn\'t that the time to speak out?

[Edited on 16/12/2004 by saintswhodi]

saintfan · 12-16-2004, 04:52 PM

You\'ll have to forgive me whodi. You\'re relatively new to the \"Blame Brooks for Everything\" debate.

There are a handful of folks here that have a history of blaming Brooks for everything wrong with the Saints. When they can\'t complain about his performance they start in on his contract. You\'re not one of \'em and neither is Kool, so my apologies. I\'ve actually had to defend Brooks because someone said our team\'s inability to defend a screen pass was his fault. There is no limit to the length some will go.

saintswhodi · 12-16-2004, 05:07 PM

Understood saintfan. Here\'s one for you:

WhoDat · 12-16-2004, 06:40 PM

Regarding Brooks, I don\'t think anyone here is purposely giving the man a free pass. What I and a few of the other more prominant \"sunshiners\" have done is defend him against comments like, \"Our TE\'s suck because of Brooks\" or \"Our Recievers suck because of Brooks\", or \"Our Line sucks because of Brooks\" or \"Our RB is off this year because of Brooks\" or \"Our defense sucks because of Brooks\". It goes on and on.

Interesting. I can think of a few people who have done that, but they don\'t seem to be the ones who get most attacked or labeled for their stance on AB.

I don\'t know if any person has taken more heat from the \"sunshiners\" on this board than I have. I am generally considered the quintessential \"Brooks Basher,\" but have I said any of those things?

There is a difference between saying that it\'s difficult to catch laser shots that are 2 feet behind you at your knees from 10 yards away, or it\'s hard not to hear footsteps when your QB leads you into monster hits, and saying the WRs suck b/c of AB. Furthermore, I can\'t think of a time that I\'ve ever presented that argument initially. What tends to happen is someone on the Pro Brooks side brings up dropped passes, and the delivery of the football or the ability to throw a touch pass comes up as an affirmative defense. Somehow that translates into \"it\'s AB\'s fault the WRs suck.\" That\'s tantamount to suggesting that some of the \"sunshiners\" believe that Horn is a Pro Bowler only b/c he has AB throwing him the ball. That\'s ridiculous, but then it\'s not hard to see how this argument gets polarized. Like suggesting that AB is overpaid translates into, \"I have nothing else to complain about so I\'ll have to resort to that.\" It\'s sad that some people believe that, but then, some people still support Haslett.

subguy · 12-17-2004, 12:12 AM

Don\'t we ealready have one 8 page Brooks feeding frenzy thread? Do we need to start another? Brooks is a bad QB.

Tobias-Reiper · 12-17-2004, 02:22 AM

yeah.. you are right... there are 2 Brooks agendas:

1.- The \"Brooks sucks and is all his fault we are losing\" agenda...
2.- The \"Brooks wins games by himself , but when we lose, is not Brooks\' fault\" agenda...

..it\'s all about perspective...

Not to ruffle your feathers, TR, but I think you\'ve got about 9 pages of heavy reading to do...

If we could make the Brooks issue that simple, I don\'t think we could\'ve argued about him as long as we have. Personally, I\'m enlisting with the \"get rid of him, we need a new identity\" branch of the forces. Time for a little offensive overhaul, and we might as well start with him (and McCarthy, hopefully).

oh, you aren\'t ruffling any feathers... I have seen the argument before

, believe me...

... but you know when this all started, right? .. it really started when Brooks was made the #2 QB before he set foot in Louisiana, then started to get ugly when neither Jake nor Blake were given a fair chance to compete for the starter position in 2001, even tough Haslett said there was open competition for the job... incidentally, that\'s what started the Haslett debate, compounded with the way he handled Milne, then Turley, then Roaf...

JKool · 12-17-2004, 09:35 AM

Ok, this is only somewhat related, but I\'m getting a bit tired of it.

Turley was a fine RT, but when he got moved to LT, he was merely mediocre. Do people really miss him? I don\'t. Sure he had passion, and that play that got him in trouble was totally justified (the helmet throwing incident) - he was defending a QB (Brooks) who was speared after the play ended. However, he had a penchant for stupid penalties, and he\'s not the sharpest tool in the shed...

Truly, the Roaf thing and the Milne thing sucked. However, the Turley move - NOT a bad move.

12-16-2004, 02:12 PM	#31
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Media Agenda??? 3 posts in a row by JKool? You were on record pace until saintswhodi stepped in. And I told all you asses about the use of the \"A\" word- don\'t make me edit posts!!!

12-16-2004, 03:38 PM	#32
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Media Agenda??? BnB, I was thinking of adding a fourth that said this: That\'s four BnB... I think I can do it... But Whodi cut me off. Good thing too, I imagine?!

12-16-2004, 04:08 PM	#33
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Media Agenda??? I\'d like to know where 08 is too. He left right about the time the word agenda got banned. I know he wasn\'t happy to see the screws get tightened, but I don\'t know if that\'s what ultimately happened to him or not. He and I used to bicker back and forth pretty good until other people got involved. Regarding Brooks, I don\'t think anyone here is purposely giving the man a free pass. What I and a few of the other more prominant \"sunshiners\" have done is defend him against comments like, \"Our TE\'s suck because of Brooks\" or \"Our Recievers suck because of Brooks\", or \"Our Line sucks because of Brooks\" or \"Our RB is off this year because of Brooks\" or \"Our defense sucks because of Brooks\". It goes on and on. Funny thing about this \"stepping away from center\" argument that cropped up recently. Was that a problem last year? I don\'t reacall it being an issue, and certainly I don\'t recall anyone ever bringing it up before. So, we should ask ourselves what changed. What changed is the guy snapping the ball. To this point no one has mentioned that. These are the things I bring to the table from time to time and get blasted for. Anyone see who\'s done the name calling in this thread so far?
	C'mon Man...

12-16-2004, 04:22 PM	#34
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Media Agenda??? Actually saintfan, Kool and I touched on the possibility of Bentley having something to do with it. The question is, is it Brooks\' fault just for mismanaging snaps(remember all the phanton fumbles last year) or is it Bentley\'s fault? That\'s the million dollar question, submitted to you Gumbo That\'s mine. Here\'s Kool: The second one may be forgiveable. If you were knocked for mishandling the snap all the time and known for putting the ball on the carpet all the time, you might take an extra moment to take care of that. I hypothesize that this may be Bentley\'s fault and not Brooks. The center exchange may be awkward. I have no evidence for this other than it didn\'t seem to be such a problem last year. We both submitted it may not all be AB, but Butters does seem to have a problem holding on to the ball. LeCharles has played center before, but I would agree he was better suited at guard. Regardless, it has been 13 games, an offseason and a bye week, and Brooks has not complained about Bentley\'s snaps. He has been good for proclaiming false love and \"evaluating his situation,\" but surely if I am being blamed for fumbles I would place the blame where it belonged, no? Isn\'t that the time to speak out? [Edited on 16/12/2004 by saintswhodi]

12-16-2004, 04:52 PM	#35
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Media Agenda??? You\'ll have to forgive me whodi. You\'re relatively new to the \"Blame Brooks for Everything\" debate. There are a handful of folks here that have a history of blaming Brooks for everything wrong with the Saints. When they can\'t complain about his performance they start in on his contract. You\'re not one of \'em and neither is Kool, so my apologies. I\'ve actually had to defend Brooks because someone said our team\'s inability to defend a screen pass was his fault. There is no limit to the length some will go.

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12-16-2004, 05:07 PM	#36
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Media Agenda??? Understood saintfan. Here\'s one for you:

12-16-2004, 06:40 PM	#37
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Media Agenda??? Regarding Brooks, I don\'t think anyone here is purposely giving the man a free pass. What I and a few of the other more prominant \"sunshiners\" have done is defend him against comments like, \"Our TE\'s suck because of Brooks\" or \"Our Recievers suck because of Brooks\", or \"Our Line sucks because of Brooks\" or \"Our RB is off this year because of Brooks\" or \"Our defense sucks because of Brooks\". It goes on and on. Interesting. I can think of a few people who have done that, but they don\'t seem to be the ones who get most attacked or labeled for their stance on AB. I don\'t know if any person has taken more heat from the \"sunshiners\" on this board than I have. I am generally considered the quintessential \"Brooks Basher,\" but have I said any of those things? There is a difference between saying that it\'s difficult to catch laser shots that are 2 feet behind you at your knees from 10 yards away, or it\'s hard not to hear footsteps when your QB leads you into monster hits, and saying the WRs suck b/c of AB. Furthermore, I can\'t think of a time that I\'ve ever presented that argument initially. What tends to happen is someone on the Pro Brooks side brings up dropped passes, and the delivery of the football or the ability to throw a touch pass comes up as an affirmative defense. Somehow that translates into \"it\'s AB\'s fault the WRs suck.\" That\'s tantamount to suggesting that some of the \"sunshiners\" believe that Horn is a Pro Bowler only b/c he has AB throwing him the ball. That\'s ridiculous, but then it\'s not hard to see how this argument gets polarized. Like suggesting that AB is overpaid translates into, \"I have nothing else to complain about so I\'ll have to resort to that.\" It\'s sad that some people believe that, but then, some people still support Haslett.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

12-17-2004, 12:12 AM	#38
subguy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: FL Posts: 2,096	Media Agenda??? Don\'t we ealready have one 8 page Brooks feeding frenzy thread? Do we need to start another? Brooks is a bad QB.

12-17-2004, 02:22 AM	#39
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Media Agenda??? yeah.. you are right... there are 2 Brooks agendas: 1.- The \"Brooks sucks and is all his fault we are losing\" agenda... 2.- The \"Brooks wins games by himself , but when we lose, is not Brooks\' fault\" agenda... ..it\'s all about perspective... Not to ruffle your feathers, TR, but I think you\'ve got about 9 pages of heavy reading to do... If we could make the Brooks issue that simple, I don\'t think we could\'ve argued about him as long as we have. Personally, I\'m enlisting with the \"get rid of him, we need a new identity\" branch of the forces. Time for a little offensive overhaul, and we might as well start with him (and McCarthy, hopefully). oh, you aren\'t ruffling any feathers... I have seen the argument before , believe me... ... but you know when this all started, right? .. it really started when Brooks was made the #2 QB before he set foot in Louisiana, then started to get ugly when neither Jake nor Blake were given a fair chance to compete for the starter position in 2001, even tough Haslett said there was open competition for the job... incidentally, that\'s what started the Haslett debate, compounded with the way he handled Milne, then Turley, then Roaf...
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

12-17-2004, 09:35 AM	#40
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Media Agenda??? Ok, this is only somewhat related, but I\'m getting a bit tired of it. Turley was a fine RT, but when he got moved to LT, he was merely mediocre. Do people really miss him? I don\'t. Sure he had passion, and that play that got him in trouble was totally justified (the helmet throwing incident) - he was defending a QB (Brooks) who was speared after the play ended. However, he had a penchant for stupid penalties, and he\'s not the sharpest tool in the shed... Truly, the Roaf thing and the Milne thing sucked. However, the Turley move - NOT a bad move.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks