secondary

blackangold · 09-22-2014, 07:49 AM

Issue number 1: Pass rush needs to addressed.

Having a pass rush that hurries the QB makes a huge difference for the DBs. They can feel more comfortable playing press man coverage knowing the deep ball will be less likely due to a good pass rush. This also helps turn-overs with strip-sacks and hurried throws that shouldn't have been made. I think most of our issues actually start up front (now that PRob is done) with guys like Cam Jordan being a non-factor.

I would like to see Powell get his shot in passing situations. They like #91 and have had him in on passing downs but I have yet to see the hype. Powell was amazing in college when healthy and looked good in the pre-season.

Issue number 2: Cohesion

It takes time for a secondary to gel. They also need to find a leader. Vaccaro said they all take on the leadership role, but that is a problem. If you have too many leaders then you have none. One of them needs to stand up and take charge of the DBs. The QB of the defensive backs is needed and right now that's what we are missing. Jenkins was a great leader for the team, as he is for philly, but someone (Byrd) needs to fill that void.

dizzle88 · 09-22-2014, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by blackangold

Issue number 1: Pass rush needs to addressed.

Having a pass rush that hurries the QB makes a huge difference for the DBs. They can feel more comfortable playing press man coverage knowing the deep ball will be less likely due to a good pass rush. This also helps turn-overs with strip-sacks and hurried throws that shouldn't have been made. I think most of our issues actually start up front (now that PRob is done) with guys like Cam Jordan being a non-factor.

I would like to see Powell get his shot in passing situations. They like #91 and have had him in on passing downs but I have yet to see the hype. Powell was amazing in college when healthy and looked good in the pre-season.

Issue number 2: Cohesion

It takes time for a secondary to gel. They also need to find a leader. Vaccaro said they all take on the leadership role, but that is a problem. If you have too many leaders then you have none. One of them needs to stand up and take charge of the DBs. The QB of the defensive backs is needed and right now that's what we are missing. Jenkins was a great leader for the team, as he is for philly, but someone (Byrd) needs to fill that void.

Agreed, it would be nice to see Powell play
I like Humber but he isn't an outside linebacker, which is where we played him yesterday, he is a run stopping thumper in the middle

Our defense as a whole is still not communicating well, there were a couple blown assignments that could have cost us, namely greg jennings wide open 60 yards down field with not a defender in site, luckily our D forced the QB to scramble on that play.
The communication needs to get better though, one play I watched a couple of times was the 30 yard pass to patterson, which is a perfect example.

Vikings are in I formation, with 2 receivers to the left, play action fake
The full back comes through the line and heads to the sideline
NOW, Ramon Humber backs up but does not go for the full back, Keenan lewis and Humber end up covering the same zone where the full back has leaked out to.
Which Vacates a huge space on the deep left off the field where I believe Keenan Lewis should have dropped back into, Patterson runs a corner route and Byrd is covering jennings running a deep route.

Patterson was left completely unmarked and byrd has to come back to make the tackle, from the way Keenan lewis acted I believe he was at fault, he jumped the full back when he came through the line when humber already had that zone covered

ikecomp · 09-22-2014, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

Agreed, it would be nice to see Powell play

Vikings are in I formation, with 2 receivers to the left, play action fake
The full back comes through the line and heads to the sideline
NOW, Ramon Humber backs up but does not go for the full back, Keenan lewis and Humber end up covering the same zone where the full back has leaked out to.
Which Vacates a huge space on the deep left off the field where I believe Keenan Lewis should have dropped back into, Patterson runs a corner route and Byrd is covering jennings running a deep route.

Patterson was left completely unmarked and byrd has to come back to make the tackle, from the way Keenan lewis acted I believe he was at fault, he jumped the full back when he came through the line when humber already had that zone covered

I think this illustrates one of the points I made in another thread. Our secondary is often asked to compensate for our very slow linebackers. In most situations Lewis would expect the linebacker to handle the zone responsibility against the full back but in our system we pretty much know the linebacker is not going to make that play. Case and point, when asiata caught the pass out in the flat curtis lofton didn't even try to run hard to make the tackle, he just assumed one of the db's would make the tackle. It wasn't till he saw the DB getting blocked that he actually tried to make a play. These type of plays happen far too often. We need to start playing the 3 safety look more with either Bush or Vaccaro in the box to make up for our lack of pursuit speed at the LB position.

VegasSaint9 · 09-22-2014, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

Vikings are in I formation, with 2 receivers to the left, play action fake
The full back comes through the line and heads to the sideline
NOW, Ramon Humber backs up but does not go for the full back, Keenan lewis and Humber end up covering the same zone where the full back has leaked out to.
Which Vacates a huge space on the deep left off the field where I believe Keenan Lewis should have dropped back into, Patterson runs a corner route and Byrd is covering jennings running a deep route.

Patterson was left completely unmarked and byrd has to come back to make the tackle, from the way Keenan lewis acted I believe he was at fault, he jumped the full back when he came through the line when humber already had that zone covered

I dont know the coverage on the play but if it was a cover 3/1 with byrd up top(probably 50 yards back for whatever reason), in most defenses the cover 3 corner is supposed to come down on rollouts and floods while the safety is supposed is supposed to occupy the zone previously occupied by the corner. The far side corner then should assume the safety role, the safety assumes the corners old role as deep third to that play. I think Byrd either was covering for a a bigger potential play/ just playing deepest threat. Humber then has responsibility for chasing the qb and lewis for the outside threat. I think the far side corner should've had responsibility of Jennings then.

09-22-2014, 07:49 AM	#1
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: secondary Issue number 1: Pass rush needs to addressed. Having a pass rush that hurries the QB makes a huge difference for the DBs. They can feel more comfortable playing press man coverage knowing the deep ball will be less likely due to a good pass rush. This also helps turn-overs with strip-sacks and hurried throws that shouldn't have been made. I think most of our issues actually start up front (now that PRob is done) with guys like Cam Jordan being a non-factor. I would like to see Powell get his shot in passing situations. They like #91 and have had him in on passing downs but I have yet to see the hype. Powell was amazing in college when healthy and looked good in the pre-season. Issue number 2: Cohesion It takes time for a secondary to gel. They also need to find a leader. Vaccaro said they all take on the leadership role, but that is a problem. If you have too many leaders then you have none. One of them needs to stand up and take charge of the DBs. The QB of the defensive backs is needed and right now that's what we are missing. Jenkins was a great leader for the team, as he is for philly, but someone (Byrd) needs to fill that void. SaintFanInATLHELL, Danno, hagan714 and 1 others like this.

09-22-2014, 08:05 AM	#2
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,518	Re: secondary Originally Posted by blackangold Issue number 1: Pass rush needs to addressed. Having a pass rush that hurries the QB makes a huge difference for the DBs. They can feel more comfortable playing press man coverage knowing the deep ball will be less likely due to a good pass rush. This also helps turn-overs with strip-sacks and hurried throws that shouldn't have been made. I think most of our issues actually start up front (now that PRob is done) with guys like Cam Jordan being a non-factor. I would like to see Powell get his shot in passing situations. They like #91 and have had him in on passing downs but I have yet to see the hype. Powell was amazing in college when healthy and looked good in the pre-season. Issue number 2: Cohesion It takes time for a secondary to gel. They also need to find a leader. Vaccaro said they all take on the leadership role, but that is a problem. If you have too many leaders then you have none. One of them needs to stand up and take charge of the DBs. The QB of the defensive backs is needed and right now that's what we are missing. Jenkins was a great leader for the team, as he is for philly, but someone (Byrd) needs to fill that void. Agreed, it would be nice to see Powell play I like Humber but he isn't an outside linebacker, which is where we played him yesterday, he is a run stopping thumper in the middle Our defense as a whole is still not communicating well, there were a couple blown assignments that could have cost us, namely greg jennings wide open 60 yards down field with not a defender in site, luckily our D forced the QB to scramble on that play. The communication needs to get better though, one play I watched a couple of times was the 30 yard pass to patterson, which is a perfect example. Vikings are in I formation, with 2 receivers to the left, play action fake The full back comes through the line and heads to the sideline NOW, Ramon Humber backs up but does not go for the full back, Keenan lewis and Humber end up covering the same zone where the full back has leaked out to. Which Vacates a huge space on the deep left off the field where I believe Keenan Lewis should have dropped back into, Patterson runs a corner route and Byrd is covering jennings running a deep route. Patterson was left completely unmarked and byrd has to come back to make the tackle, from the way Keenan lewis acted I believe he was at fault, he jumped the full back when he came through the line when humber already had that zone covered
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

09-22-2014, 09:40 AM	#3
ikecomp 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 329	Re: secondary Originally Posted by dizzle88 Agreed, it would be nice to see Powell play Vikings are in I formation, with 2 receivers to the left, play action fake The full back comes through the line and heads to the sideline NOW, Ramon Humber backs up but does not go for the full back, Keenan lewis and Humber end up covering the same zone where the full back has leaked out to. Which Vacates a huge space on the deep left off the field where I believe Keenan Lewis should have dropped back into, Patterson runs a corner route and Byrd is covering jennings running a deep route. Patterson was left completely unmarked and byrd has to come back to make the tackle, from the way Keenan lewis acted I believe he was at fault, he jumped the full back when he came through the line when humber already had that zone covered I think this illustrates one of the points I made in another thread. Our secondary is often asked to compensate for our very slow linebackers. In most situations Lewis would expect the linebacker to handle the zone responsibility against the full back but in our system we pretty much know the linebacker is not going to make that play. Case and point, when asiata caught the pass out in the flat curtis lofton didn't even try to run hard to make the tackle, he just assumed one of the db's would make the tackle. It wasn't till he saw the DB getting blocked that he actually tried to make a play. These type of plays happen far too often. We need to start playing the 3 safety look more with either Bush or Vaccaro in the box to make up for our lack of pursuit speed at the LB position.
ikecomp 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 329

09-22-2014, 10:40 AM	#4
VegasSaint9 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 360	Re: secondary Originally Posted by dizzle88 Vikings are in I formation, with 2 receivers to the left, play action fake The full back comes through the line and heads to the sideline NOW, Ramon Humber backs up but does not go for the full back, Keenan lewis and Humber end up covering the same zone where the full back has leaked out to. Which Vacates a huge space on the deep left off the field where I believe Keenan Lewis should have dropped back into, Patterson runs a corner route and Byrd is covering jennings running a deep route. Patterson was left completely unmarked and byrd has to come back to make the tackle, from the way Keenan lewis acted I believe he was at fault, he jumped the full back when he came through the line when humber already had that zone covered I dont know the coverage on the play but if it was a cover 3/1 with byrd up top(probably 50 yards back for whatever reason), in most defenses the cover 3 corner is supposed to come down on rollouts and floods while the safety is supposed is supposed to occupy the zone previously occupied by the corner. The far side corner then should assume the safety role, the safety assumes the corners old role as deep third to that play. I think Byrd either was covering for a a bigger potential play/ just playing deepest threat. Humber then has responsibility for chasing the qb and lewis for the outside threat. I think the far side corner should've had responsibility of Jennings then. hagan714 and dizzle88 like this.

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