Ingram - Saints Relationship

darksoul35 · 10-31-2014, 01:21 PM

I want Ingram back and I really wish we picked up the option but I understand why we didn't.

blackangold · 10-31-2014, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Jack Vegas

Carolina was very successful with Williams/Stewart/Tolbert for several years until they got old and injury prone. Bengals are doing well right now with Bernard and Hill. Patriots get a ton of production out of Ridley/Vereen and whoever else they plug in there. Colts are getting a lot out of Bradshaw/Richardson/Herron. Browns did well with Tate/West/Crowell until their o-line got messed up. Etc.

And you might notice that pretty much every big time college program plays 3 and 4 guys. In fact I would say the number of NFL teams which does not regularly use at least a two-back rotation is very small. and many are using 3 these days.

We take it to the extreme with 4, but really if you think about it the Cadet/Sproles/Bush spot in the rotation really isn't a running back, it's more a receiver position.

Don't get me wrong, I love watching Ingram run. I just don't want him getting 30 carries every game. Haslett ran Deuce into the ground with that crap and probably took 4-5 years off his career. If SP had done the same thing with, say, PT, he'd probably be washed up by now too.

So the only current examples are ranked in the bottom of the league...

lee909 · 10-31-2014, 02:00 PM

The difference with a lot of them suggestions and the Saints of the last few years is that in most them options players can receive and rush. When Ingram came on the field the whole world new it was a run same with Sproles everyone called a screen or him going into the slot. The only time yeams had to think was when PT came on as he could do both well.

dam1953 · 10-31-2014, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Jack Vegas

Carolina ..........If SP had done the same thing with, say, PT, he'd probably be washed up by now too.

My point, which really wasn't clear, was that it's not how many RBs we have or the number of touches they each get. I was that SP seemed to have player packages for situations and specific plays and play calling was getting predictable. Yes, if Brees has plenty of time or the O line blows the D off the ball, then it doesn't matter, but the job gets easier if the D is confused.

With KR and PT injured SP was forced to use Ingram in situations and play calls where he typically wouldn't. This makes our offense less predicable and much more dangerous.

dam1953 · 10-31-2014, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by alleycat_126

And you know what, why is dating a bad thing. When your dating as a guy... you do every thing you can to impress your mate into marriage... and that is exactly what Ingram is doing.

- STAYING HEALTHY ( Still and ongoing issue ) Hand injury... now shoulder troubles....

- being more decisive
- not being tackled as much by the first tackler
- holding on to the ball
- finishing runs

All the things people like me held him accountable for when we were critical of him.

Don't forget picking up blitzes. I think that this was one reason why he wasn't getting on the field in passing situations. He has done a reasonably good job in that area the last two games.

lumm0x · 10-31-2014, 02:10 PM

I do agree. Our personnel dictated many of our situational play calls. We had guys that were unique to pass play blocking and screen options and guys who were unique to run plays. In the past Ingram only came in to run the ball and rarely stayed in for the pass calls. Same with Robinson as he was not a satisfactory blocker in those packages. Payton became predictable by personnel and formation. Having only one back for the majority of the offense does not allow defenses to key based on personnel the way they could.

QBREES9 · 10-31-2014, 09:09 PM

I hope he comes back, next year.

billyt81 · 11-05-2014, 02:09 AM

How I see it is Ingram may be the best back in the league. I think he's faster and bigger than Demarco Murray. He carried Bama to a title. Why not us?

hagan714 · 11-05-2014, 08:47 AM

lets give some loving to the OL here. 3 years ago the saints started the shift to a zone blocking scheme. never easy to do such a thing to an OL. Well this is the first time i have seen the saints run mostly Zone blocking. It took time but this unit has gelled in the run game finally. That is what Mark ran in at Bama.

now if the pass protection keeps improving we may just have the start to something special up front

hats off to the OL

Now if Mark comes back or not. If not lets all hope the saints learned their lesson and replace him with a back that fits our scheme of blocking.

10-31-2014, 01:21 PM	#21
darksoul35 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,041	Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship I want Ingram back and I really wish we picked up the option but I understand why we didn't.
darksoul35 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,041

10-31-2014, 01:45 PM	#22
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship Originally Posted by Jack Vegas Carolina was very successful with Williams/Stewart/Tolbert for several years until they got old and injury prone. Bengals are doing well right now with Bernard and Hill. Patriots get a ton of production out of Ridley/Vereen and whoever else they plug in there. Colts are getting a lot out of Bradshaw/Richardson/Herron. Browns did well with Tate/West/Crowell until their o-line got messed up. Etc. And you might notice that pretty much every big time college program plays 3 and 4 guys. In fact I would say the number of NFL teams which does not regularly use at least a two-back rotation is very small. and many are using 3 these days. We take it to the extreme with 4, but really if you think about it the Cadet/Sproles/Bush spot in the rotation really isn't a running back, it's more a receiver position. Don't get me wrong, I love watching Ingram run. I just don't want him getting 30 carries every game. Haslett ran Deuce into the ground with that crap and probably took 4-5 years off his career. If SP had done the same thing with, say, PT, he'd probably be washed up by now too. So the only current examples are ranked in the bottom of the league... dam1953 likes this.

10-31-2014, 02:00 PM	#23
lee909 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,803 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship The difference with a lot of them suggestions and the Saints of the last few years is that in most them options players can receive and rush. When Ingram came on the field the whole world new it was a run same with Sproles everyone called a screen or him going into the slot. The only time yeams had to think was when PT came on as he could do both well.

10-31-2014, 02:05 PM	#24
dam1953 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 4,645	Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship Originally Posted by Jack Vegas Carolina ..........If SP had done the same thing with, say, PT, he'd probably be washed up by now too. My point, which really wasn't clear, was that it's not how many RBs we have or the number of touches they each get. I was that SP seemed to have player packages for situations and specific plays and play calling was getting predictable. Yes, if Brees has plenty of time or the O line blows the D off the ball, then it doesn't matter, but the job gets easier if the D is confused. With KR and PT injured SP was forced to use Ingram in situations and play calls where he typically wouldn't. This makes our offense less predicable and much more dangerous. SASaintsfan likes this.
	”It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.” Charles Darwin

10-31-2014, 02:07 PM	#25
dam1953 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 4,645	Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship Originally Posted by alleycat_126 And you know what, why is dating a bad thing. When your dating as a guy... you do every thing you can to impress your mate into marriage... and that is exactly what Ingram is doing. - STAYING HEALTHY ( Still and ongoing issue ) Hand injury... now shoulder troubles.... - being more decisive - not being tackled as much by the first tackler - holding on to the ball - finishing runs All the things people like me held him accountable for when we were critical of him. Don't forget picking up blitzes. I think that this was one reason why he wasn't getting on the field in passing situations. He has done a reasonably good job in that area the last two games.

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10-31-2014, 02:10 PM	#26
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship I do agree. Our personnel dictated many of our situational play calls. We had guys that were unique to pass play blocking and screen options and guys who were unique to run plays. In the past Ingram only came in to run the ball and rarely stayed in for the pass calls. Same with Robinson as he was not a satisfactory blocker in those packages. Payton became predictable by personnel and formation. Having only one back for the majority of the offense does not allow defenses to key based on personnel the way they could.

10-31-2014, 09:09 PM	#27
QBREES9 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Haven Ct Posts: 23,985	Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship I hope he comes back, next year. blackangold likes this.

11-05-2014, 02:09 AM	#28
billyt81 1000 Posts + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Metairie Posts: 1,129	Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship How I see it is Ingram may be the best back in the league. I think he's faster and bigger than Demarco Murray. He carried Bama to a title. Why not us?

11-05-2014, 08:47 AM	#29
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Ingram - Saints Relationship lets give some loving to the OL here. 3 years ago the saints started the shift to a zone blocking scheme. never easy to do such a thing to an OL. Well this is the first time i have seen the saints run mostly Zone blocking. It took time but this unit has gelled in the run game finally. That is what Mark ran in at Bama. now if the pass protection keeps improving we may just have the start to something special up front hats off to the OL Now if Mark comes back or not. If not lets all hope the saints learned their lesson and replace him with a back that fits our scheme of blocking.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Last edited by hagan714; 11-05-2014 at 08:49 AM..

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