Let Us All Just Face the Facts

dizzle88 · 11-11-2014, 02:31 PM

We could really do with a draft like we had in 2006

Reggie Bush, Roman Harper, Jahri evans, colston, PT as an UDFA
All gave us at least 5 or more solid years as a saint.

We tend to strike out on draft picks more than land successful players nowadays

RailBoss · 11-11-2014, 02:42 PM

The point that 73Saint made is a valid point, a lot of money was eaten up with that contract. And you have to figure there is that much less across
the boards. Brees has made us an instant contender since he got here.
I guess that is why our GM makes the big bucks to put all this into
perspective. Money or not I still don't see many QB's out there that
I would have the same faith in.

AsylumGuido · 11-11-2014, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by 73Saint

Blah blah blah. Somehow I knew you would come out of the woodwork when I posted this. I don't care how it compares to other contracts. That wasn't my point at all. All I know is there are those QBs (& other highly sought out players) that have a much more humble approach. When he went to Denver, didn't Manning (or maybe it was Brady) mention he wasn't as concerned w his contract ($$) as he was with keeping the right people around him? I am not a Brees hater, and certainly not one of the ones saying he's in decline. I just know it takes more than one person and we have lost key players and leaders in our locker room because of several massive contracts. And you can't tell me that doesn't have something to do with our issues.

No. I don't think it has anything to do with "our issues". As I pointed out, cap is not an issue with the current and future trend. There is a 53 man roster that needs to be filled. The cap did not keep the Saints from making major moves. Losing Jarius Byrd has something very real to do with our issues. Having Keenan Lewis go down with the leg injury has something to do with the issues Sunday. Graham suffering a shoulder injury had something to do with our issues. Untimely drops have something to do with our issues.

Brees is going to restructure along the same lines as Brady did a few years back and get more guaranteed money over a longer period ... just like Brady so famously did.

No, we lost key leaders from our locker room because they were old and could no longer produce. Does that create a leadership vacuum? Hell yes it does. But it has absolutely nothing to do with an extremely fair contract awarded to Drew Brees.

AsylumGuido · 11-11-2014, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

My first question to that is:
Do we sign Brees to another major money contract or trade him for draft picks like the Colts did Manning?
2: What side of the ball(offense or defense) do we invest heavily in?
3: How do we get out of the crazy money contracts(Grubbs, Lofton, Graham type) and make it work in our favor.
4.Who do we keep and who do we let go?
Rebuilding is going to happen sooner or later, it has to. No bashing here, we do need to look at the future!!

The Colts did not trade Manning. They cut him. There is no way the Saints would cut Brees (or trade Brees) when they can restructure. They "crazy money contracts" will work easily under the rapidly rising cap.

Rebuilding is already happening. Successful programs are constantly rebuilding. That's why the Saints have only a handful of players left from the Super Bowl roster. There are extremely young players on both sides of the ball.

73Saint · 11-11-2014, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

No. I don't think it has anything to do with "our issues". As I pointed out, cap is not an issue with the current and future trend. There is a 53 man roster that needs to be filled. The cap did not keep the Saints from making major moves. Losing Jarius Byrd has something very real to do with our issues. Having Keenan Lewis go down with the leg injury has something to do with the issues Sunday. Graham suffering a shoulder injury had something to do with our issues. Untimely drops have something to do with our issues.

Brees is going to restructure along the same lines as Brady did a few years back and get more guaranteed money over a longer period ... just like Brady so famously did.

No, we lost key leaders from our locker room because they were old and could no longer produce. Does that create a leadership vacuum? Hell yes it does. But it has absolutely nothing to do with an extremely fair contract awarded to Drew Brees.

I didn't say Brees' contract was unfair. I referenced Brees' (& other massive contracts, didn't I?), and made no mention of them being unfair. But they do "hamstring" us. And I can't name them all but there are at least 3 to 5 of our old-and-no-longer-producing leaders, on other teams right now and thriving...and it's because we didn't have the cap space to keep them.

AsylumGuido · 11-11-2014, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by 73Saint

I didn't say Brees' contract was unfair. I referenced Brees' (& other massive contracts, didn't I?), and made no mention of them being unfair. But they do "hamstring" us. And I can't name them all but there are at least 3 to 5 of our old-and-no-longer-producing leaders, on other teams right now and thriving...and it's because we didn't have the cap space to keep them.

And which old leaders would those be? Harper and Jenkins have been looking just as poor the last few games as they had in NO. Jabari Greer has retired. Vilma has given up looking for work. Will Smith got cut by the Patriots. Lance Moore has failed to catch more than two passes in a game since leaving. Sproles is the ONLY player that has had any success and he was at a position that was five players deep on the Saints.

Maybe you are talking about before then, huh? Who is thriving elsewhere? Carl Nicks? No. Jonathon Goodwin? Oh, wait. He's back. De a Puente? He's really helping those Bears, huh?

There are not any players cut or not re-signed by the Saints since Brees' contract that I can think of that could be classified as "thriving" elsewhere.

73Saint · 11-11-2014, 04:52 PM

I was thinking Sproles & Jenkins. I thought Jenkins was doing extremely well in Philly. If not, my bad. I also thought we had several players thriving in Detroit.

But, whatever. I Still love the Saints, and this forum (for the most part). Except when people express a thought and get lambasted for being a bandwagon fan or having no clue.

hagan714 · 11-11-2014, 05:11 PM

keep them coming boy we got more than a few people to pop out of the wood work on this one.

if you have read every response up to this point you should be feeling better about the saints.

but also some great points made to get some heads out of the sand at the same time.

My sides are killing me from LMAO at some of the funny responses that made valid points at my expense.

good god i love this site.

Rugby Saint II · 11-11-2014, 05:19 PM

We are already well into the rebuilding process.

Danno · 11-11-2014, 05:38 PM

We aren't rebuilding, we're upgrading, re-loading, re-tooling, adjusting etc...

1-15 teams rebuild. We're one of the winningest teams in the NFL over the last 8 years.

11-11-2014, 02:31 PM	#21
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10,838	Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts We could really do with a draft like we had in 2006 Reggie Bush, Roman Harper, Jahri evans, colston, PT as an UDFA All gave us at least 5 or more solid years as a saint. We tend to strike out on draft picks more than land successful players nowadays

11-11-2014, 02:42 PM	#22
RailBoss 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Of The Mason Dixon Line Posts: 7,113	Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts The point that 73Saint made is a valid point, a lot of money was eaten up with that contract. And you have to figure there is that much less across the boards. Brees has made us an instant contender since he got here. I guess that is why our GM makes the big bucks to put all this into perspective. Money or not I still don't see many QB's out there that I would have the same faith in. hagan714 likes this.

11-11-2014, 03:49 PM	#23
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,395	Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts Originally Posted by 73Saint Blah blah blah. Somehow I knew you would come out of the woodwork when I posted this. I don't care how it compares to other contracts. That wasn't my point at all. All I know is there are those QBs (& other highly sought out players) that have a much more humble approach. When he went to Denver, didn't Manning (or maybe it was Brady) mention he wasn't as concerned w his contract ($$) as he was with keeping the right people around him? I am not a Brees hater, and certainly not one of the ones saying he's in decline. I just know it takes more than one person and we have lost key players and leaders in our locker room because of several massive contracts. And you can't tell me that doesn't have something to do with our issues. No. I don't think it has anything to do with "our issues". As I pointed out, cap is not an issue with the current and future trend. There is a 53 man roster that needs to be filled. The cap did not keep the Saints from making major moves. Losing Jarius Byrd has something very real to do with our issues. Having Keenan Lewis go down with the leg injury has something to do with the issues Sunday. Graham suffering a shoulder injury had something to do with our issues. Untimely drops have something to do with our issues. Brees is going to restructure along the same lines as Brady did a few years back and get more guaranteed money over a longer period ... just like Brady so famously did. No, we lost key leaders from our locker room because they were old and could no longer produce. Does that create a leadership vacuum? Hell yes it does. But it has absolutely nothing to do with an extremely fair contract awarded to Drew Brees. hagan714 and WHODATINCA like this.

11-11-2014, 03:54 PM	#24
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,395	Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts Originally Posted by halloween 65 My first question to that is: Do we sign Brees to another major money contract or trade him for draft picks like the Colts did Manning? 2: What side of the ball(offense or defense) do we invest heavily in? 3: How do we get out of the crazy money contracts(Grubbs, Lofton, Graham type) and make it work in our favor. 4.Who do we keep and who do we let go? Rebuilding is going to happen sooner or later, it has to. No bashing here, we do need to look at the future!! The Colts did not trade Manning. They cut him. There is no way the Saints would cut Brees (or trade Brees) when they can restructure. They "crazy money contracts" will work easily under the rapidly rising cap. Rebuilding is already happening. Successful programs are constantly rebuilding. That's why the Saints have only a handful of players left from the Super Bowl roster. There are extremely young players on both sides of the ball. Danno, hagan714 and WHODATINCA like this.

11-11-2014, 04:23 PM	#25
73Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NOLA Posts: 2,336	Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts Originally Posted by AsylumGuido No. I don't think it has anything to do with "our issues". As I pointed out, cap is not an issue with the current and future trend. There is a 53 man roster that needs to be filled. The cap did not keep the Saints from making major moves. Losing Jarius Byrd has something very real to do with our issues. Having Keenan Lewis go down with the leg injury has something to do with the issues Sunday. Graham suffering a shoulder injury had something to do with our issues. Untimely drops have something to do with our issues. Brees is going to restructure along the same lines as Brady did a few years back and get more guaranteed money over a longer period ... just like Brady so famously did. No, we lost key leaders from our locker room because they were old and could no longer produce. Does that create a leadership vacuum? Hell yes it does. But it has absolutely nothing to do with an extremely fair contract awarded to Drew Brees. I didn't say Brees' contract was unfair. I referenced Brees' (& other massive contracts, didn't I?), and made no mention of them being unfair. But they do "hamstring" us. And I can't name them all but there are at least 3 to 5 of our old-and-no-longer-producing leaders, on other teams right now and thriving...and it's because we didn't have the cap space to keep them.

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11-11-2014, 04:39 PM	#26
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,395	Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts Originally Posted by 73Saint I didn't say Brees' contract was unfair. I referenced Brees' (& other massive contracts, didn't I?), and made no mention of them being unfair. But they do "hamstring" us. And I can't name them all but there are at least 3 to 5 of our old-and-no-longer-producing leaders, on other teams right now and thriving...and it's because we didn't have the cap space to keep them. And which old leaders would those be? Harper and Jenkins have been looking just as poor the last few games as they had in NO. Jabari Greer has retired. Vilma has given up looking for work. Will Smith got cut by the Patriots. Lance Moore has failed to catch more than two passes in a game since leaving. Sproles is the ONLY player that has had any success and he was at a position that was five players deep on the Saints. Maybe you are talking about before then, huh? Who is thriving elsewhere? Carl Nicks? No. Jonathon Goodwin? Oh, wait. He's back. De a Puente? He's really helping those Bears, huh? There are not any players cut or not re-signed by the Saints since Brees' contract that I can think of that could be classified as "thriving" elsewhere.

11-11-2014, 04:52 PM	#27
73Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NOLA Posts: 2,336	Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts I was thinking Sproles & Jenkins. I thought Jenkins was doing extremely well in Philly. If not, my bad. I also thought we had several players thriving in Detroit. But, whatever. I Still love the Saints, and this forum (for the most part). Except when people express a thought and get lambasted for being a bandwagon fan or having no clue. hagan714 likes this.

11-11-2014, 05:11 PM	#28
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts keep them coming boy we got more than a few people to pop out of the wood work on this one. if you have read every response up to this point you should be feeling better about the saints. but also some great points made to get some heads out of the sand at the same time. My sides are killing me from LMAO at some of the funny responses that made valid points at my expense. good god i love this site. jeanpierre likes this.
	Last edited by hagan714; 11-11-2014 at 05:13 PM..

11-11-2014, 05:19 PM	#29
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,747	Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts We are already well into the rebuilding process. RailBoss likes this.

11-11-2014, 05:38 PM	#30
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,650	Re: Let Us All Just Face the Facts We aren't rebuilding, we're upgrading, re-loading, re-tooling, adjusting etc... 1-15 teams rebuild. We're one of the winningest teams in the NFL over the last 8 years. RailBoss, AsylumGuido and Rugby Saint II like this.

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