The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints

saintsfan1976 · 12-12-2014, 12:04 PM

Not so fast.

I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony.

They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts
They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts

The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl.

Danno · 12-12-2014, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Not so fast.

I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony.

They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts
They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts

The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl.

While true, the offense turned the ball over 5 times in the San Fran game. There isn't a defense in NFL history that can overcome that.

saintsfan1976 · 12-14-2014, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

While true, the offense turned the ball over 5 times in the San Fran game. There isn't a defense in NFL history that can overcome that.

True dat.

FinSaint · 12-12-2014, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Not so fast.

I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony.

Exactly. Watching that defense play was almost as bad at times as it is watching this current one.

While I'll forever be grateful to GW for being part of that SB winning team - I wouldn't want him back.

I still wish they would've gone with Romeo Crennel instead of RR, but I had to admit after last season that they made a good call - now it seems that it might've just been a fluke. I feel like Crennel would've been far superior long-term in creating a good complimentary defensive unit for SP's offense.

But then again, I was over the moon when they hired Spags to replace GW.

hagan714 · 12-13-2014, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Not so fast.

I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony.

They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts

That came down to one one play and Williams had the right the defense called. just count up the players that missed the tackles. more than enough fire power in the right spot at the right time. that is when you blame the players and credit the Beast.

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts

The Davis play i do put on Williams. Wrong CB and poor safety support. But that is why we drafted speedy Robinson. But earlier in the game he gave up a TD because he got lost in the second level as WR went into motion then reversed field and motion back to his original side. more than once Robinson made a few bone head moves like that. so not putting him on Davis at that point in the game i can understand. excellent play call by the niners and great play by Smith on seeing that match up and keeping the safety frozen.

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl.

look at the players we lost after the super bowl too. notice i did not go into his draft record at all? he did ok but he never could replace or upgrade that group.

I am still amazed that they were so good together. That is when the youth movement started up a bit for the defense so in many ways you were starting from scratch.

call it a fluke or whatever those defensive players the saints got together back in the beginning may not have been super stars or shut down types but they functioned well as a unit and had chemistry.

that is the point of this piece. he got more out of what he had to work with than any DC since. No way that unit should have gotten us to the super bowl. They did just enough. Believe me it was not all talent. It was all guts and smarts

saintsfan1976 · 12-14-2014, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

That came down to one one play and Williams had the right the defense called. just count up the players that missed the tackles. more than enough fire power in the right spot at the right time. that is when you blame the players and credit the Beast.

The Davis play i do put on Williams. Wrong CB and poor safety support. But that is why we drafted speedy Robinson. But earlier in the game he gave up a TD because he got lost in the second level as WR went into motion then reversed field and motion back to his original side. more than once Robinson made a few bone head moves like that. so not putting him on Davis at that point in the game i can understand. excellent play call by the niners and great play by Smith on seeing that match up and keeping the safety frozen.

look at the players we lost after the super bowl too. notice i did not go into his draft record at all? he did ok but he never could replace or upgrade that group.

I am still amazed that they were so good together. That is when the youth movement started up a bit for the defense so in many ways you were starting from scratch.

call it a fluke or whatever those defensive players the saints got together back in the beginning may not have been super stars or shut down types but they functioned well as a unit and had chemistry.

that is the point of this piece. he got more out of what he had to work with than any DC since. No way that unit should have gotten us to the super bowl. They did just enough. Believe me it was not all talent. It was all guts and smarts

Hasselbeck threw for 300yds and 4 tds. That's plain awful.

There wasn't a "Davis play" - he was open all day long.

Agree that he "did more with less" and that's a far cry from what RR has done with more.

blackangold · 12-13-2014, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Not so fast.

I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony.

They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts
They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts

The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl.

Not sure how they were ineffective when they were ranked 4th in the NFL...

Those were some of the least talented defenses the Saints have had in the last few decades, Williams deserves more credit then what you are giving him.

12-12-2014, 12:04 PM	#1
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,975 Blog Entries: 3	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Not so fast. I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony. They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl. Danno, hagan714, jlouhill and 2 others like this.

12-12-2014, 05:38 PM	#2
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,748	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Not so fast. I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony. They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl. While true, the offense turned the ball over 5 times in the San Fran game. There isn't a defense in NFL history that can overcome that. UK_WhoDat, hagan714, saintsfan1976 and 2 others like this.

12-14-2014, 08:44 AM	#3
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,975 Blog Entries: 3	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by Danno While true, the offense turned the ball over 5 times in the San Fran game. There isn't a defense in NFL history that can overcome that. True dat.

12-12-2014, 07:19 PM	#4
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Not so fast. I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony. Exactly. Watching that defense play was almost as bad at times as it is watching this current one. While I'll forever be grateful to GW for being part of that SB winning team - I wouldn't want him back. I still wish they would've gone with Romeo Crennel instead of RR, but I had to admit after last season that they made a good call - now it seems that it might've just been a fluke. I feel like Crennel would've been far superior long-term in creating a good complimentary defensive unit for SP's offense. But then again, I was over the moon when they hired Spags to replace GW.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

12-13-2014, 12:22 AM	#5
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Not so fast. I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony. They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts That came down to one one play and Williams had the right the defense called. just count up the players that missed the tackles. more than enough fire power in the right spot at the right time. that is when you blame the players and credit the Beast. Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts The Davis play i do put on Williams. Wrong CB and poor safety support. But that is why we drafted speedy Robinson. But earlier in the game he gave up a TD because he got lost in the second level as WR went into motion then reversed field and motion back to his original side. more than once Robinson made a few bone head moves like that. so not putting him on Davis at that point in the game i can understand. excellent play call by the niners and great play by Smith on seeing that match up and keeping the safety frozen. Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl. look at the players we lost after the super bowl too. notice i did not go into his draft record at all? he did ok but he never could replace or upgrade that group. I am still amazed that they were so good together. That is when the youth movement started up a bit for the defense so in many ways you were starting from scratch. call it a fluke or whatever those defensive players the saints got together back in the beginning may not have been super stars or shut down types but they functioned well as a unit and had chemistry. that is the point of this piece. he got more out of what he had to work with than any DC since. No way that unit should have gotten us to the super bowl. They did just enough. Believe me it was not all talent. It was all guts and smarts saintsfan1976 likes this.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Last edited by hagan714; 12-13-2014 at 12:25 AM..

12-14-2014, 08:42 AM	#6
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,975 Blog Entries: 3	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by hagan714 That came down to one one play and Williams had the right the defense called. just count up the players that missed the tackles. more than enough fire power in the right spot at the right time. that is when you blame the players and credit the Beast. The Davis play i do put on Williams. Wrong CB and poor safety support. But that is why we drafted speedy Robinson. But earlier in the game he gave up a TD because he got lost in the second level as WR went into motion then reversed field and motion back to his original side. more than once Robinson made a few bone head moves like that. so not putting him on Davis at that point in the game i can understand. excellent play call by the niners and great play by Smith on seeing that match up and keeping the safety frozen. look at the players we lost after the super bowl too. notice i did not go into his draft record at all? he did ok but he never could replace or upgrade that group. I am still amazed that they were so good together. That is when the youth movement started up a bit for the defense so in many ways you were starting from scratch. call it a fluke or whatever those defensive players the saints got together back in the beginning may not have been super stars or shut down types but they functioned well as a unit and had chemistry. that is the point of this piece. he got more out of what he had to work with than any DC since. No way that unit should have gotten us to the super bowl. They did just enough. Believe me it was not all talent. It was all guts and smarts Hasselbeck threw for 300yds and 4 tds. That's plain awful. There wasn't a "Davis play" - he was open all day long. Agree that he "did more with less" and that's a far cry from what RR has done with more.

12-13-2014, 02:57 PM	#7
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Not so fast. I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony. They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl. Not sure how they were ineffective when they were ranked 4th in the NFL... Those were some of the least talented defenses the Saints have had in the last few decades, Williams deserves more credit then what you are giving him.

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