The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints

The Dude · 12-12-2014, 10:50 PM

I don't know if its a decline and fall. I think we are having a down year. With a QB like Brees coaches like Payton will find a way to right the ship.

vpheughan · 12-12-2014, 11:31 PM

Split those hairs!!! is it 5 wins and 8 losses or 8 losses and 5 wins?

hagan714 · 12-13-2014, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Not so fast.

I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony.

They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts

That came down to one one play and Williams had the right the defense called. just count up the players that missed the tackles. more than enough fire power in the right spot at the right time. that is when you blame the players and credit the Beast.

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts

The Davis play i do put on Williams. Wrong CB and poor safety support. But that is why we drafted speedy Robinson. But earlier in the game he gave up a TD because he got lost in the second level as WR went into motion then reversed field and motion back to his original side. more than once Robinson made a few bone head moves like that. so not putting him on Davis at that point in the game i can understand. excellent play call by the niners and great play by Smith on seeing that match up and keeping the safety frozen.

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl.

look at the players we lost after the super bowl too. notice i did not go into his draft record at all? he did ok but he never could replace or upgrade that group.

I am still amazed that they were so good together. That is when the youth movement started up a bit for the defense so in many ways you were starting from scratch.

call it a fluke or whatever those defensive players the saints got together back in the beginning may not have been super stars or shut down types but they functioned well as a unit and had chemistry.

that is the point of this piece. he got more out of what he had to work with than any DC since. No way that unit should have gotten us to the super bowl. They did just enough. Believe me it was not all talent. It was all guts and smarts

Audiotom · 12-13-2014, 01:45 AM

Williams gambled too much

The last 49 drive in the 2011 playoffs
All he needed to do was go prevent zone

They go man single coverge and dial up a blitz
Williams wants the 49ers to go down with shock and awe
and Vernon Davis smokes us

That could have easily been another Super bowl Champion

blackangold · 12-13-2014, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Not so fast.

I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony.

They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts
They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts

The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl.

Not sure how they were ineffective when they were ranked 4th in the NFL...

Those were some of the least talented defenses the Saints have had in the last few decades, Williams deserves more credit then what you are giving him.

blackangold · 12-13-2014, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Audiotom

Williams gambled too much

The last 49 drive in the 2011 playoffs
All he needed to do was go prevent zone

They go man single coverge and dial up a blitz
Williams wants the 49ers to go down with shock and awe
and Vernon Davis smokes us

That could have easily been another Super bowl Champion

Maybe the 49ers don't score so many points if our offense/special teams don't turn the ball over 5 times... lol

UK_WhoDat · 12-13-2014, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Actually, 'decline' suggests a gradual degrade in strength...
i.e. 'This thing is going down hill'

Whereas, 'fall' suggests a rapid, acute, punctuated degrade...
i.e. 'This thing just went off the cliff'

Yep
Unless you are Buzz Lightyear

saintsfan1976 · 12-14-2014, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

That came down to one one play and Williams had the right the defense called. just count up the players that missed the tackles. more than enough fire power in the right spot at the right time. that is when you blame the players and credit the Beast.

The Davis play i do put on Williams. Wrong CB and poor safety support. But that is why we drafted speedy Robinson. But earlier in the game he gave up a TD because he got lost in the second level as WR went into motion then reversed field and motion back to his original side. more than once Robinson made a few bone head moves like that. so not putting him on Davis at that point in the game i can understand. excellent play call by the niners and great play by Smith on seeing that match up and keeping the safety frozen.

look at the players we lost after the super bowl too. notice i did not go into his draft record at all? he did ok but he never could replace or upgrade that group.

I am still amazed that they were so good together. That is when the youth movement started up a bit for the defense so in many ways you were starting from scratch.

call it a fluke or whatever those defensive players the saints got together back in the beginning may not have been super stars or shut down types but they functioned well as a unit and had chemistry.

that is the point of this piece. he got more out of what he had to work with than any DC since. No way that unit should have gotten us to the super bowl. They did just enough. Believe me it was not all talent. It was all guts and smarts

Hasselbeck threw for 300yds and 4 tds. That's plain awful.

There wasn't a "Davis play" - he was open all day long.

Agree that he "did more with less" and that's a far cry from what RR has done with more.

saintsfan1976 · 12-14-2014, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

While true, the offense turned the ball over 5 times in the San Fran game. There isn't a defense in NFL history that can overcome that.

True dat.

Exxcalibur · 12-14-2014, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Audiotom

Williams gambled too much

The last 49 drive in the 2011 playoffs
All he needed to do was go prevent zone

They go man single coverge and dial up a blitz
Williams wants the 49ers to go down with shock and awe
and Vernon Davis smokes us

That could have easily been another Super bowl Champion

Its funny when you think of how much we all hate prevent when it turns up in the 4th quarter.

In other news, I never had problems with bounty gate. I can't recall a game in any code played where we didnt want to go out and hurt the opposition.

12-12-2014, 10:50 PM	#21
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints I don't know if its a decline and fall. I think we are having a down year. With a QB like Brees coaches like Payton will find a way to right the ship.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048

12-12-2014, 11:31 PM	#22
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,521	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Split those hairs!!! is it 5 wins and 8 losses or 8 losses and 5 wins?
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,521

12-13-2014, 01:22 AM	#23
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Not so fast. I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony. They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts That came down to one one play and Williams had the right the defense called. just count up the players that missed the tackles. more than enough fire power in the right spot at the right time. that is when you blame the players and credit the Beast. Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts The Davis play i do put on Williams. Wrong CB and poor safety support. But that is why we drafted speedy Robinson. But earlier in the game he gave up a TD because he got lost in the second level as WR went into motion then reversed field and motion back to his original side. more than once Robinson made a few bone head moves like that. so not putting him on Davis at that point in the game i can understand. excellent play call by the niners and great play by Smith on seeing that match up and keeping the safety frozen. Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl. look at the players we lost after the super bowl too. notice i did not go into his draft record at all? he did ok but he never could replace or upgrade that group. I am still amazed that they were so good together. That is when the youth movement started up a bit for the defense so in many ways you were starting from scratch. call it a fluke or whatever those defensive players the saints got together back in the beginning may not have been super stars or shut down types but they functioned well as a unit and had chemistry. that is the point of this piece. he got more out of what he had to work with than any DC since. No way that unit should have gotten us to the super bowl. They did just enough. Believe me it was not all talent. It was all guts and smarts saintsfan1976 likes this.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Last edited by hagan714; 12-13-2014 at 01:25 AM..

12-13-2014, 01:45 AM	#24
Audiotom 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 1,094 Blog Entries: 1	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Williams gambled too much The last 49 drive in the 2011 playoffs All he needed to do was go prevent zone They go man single coverge and dial up a blitz Williams wants the 49ers to go down with shock and awe and Vernon Davis smokes us That could have easily been another Super bowl Champion

12-13-2014, 03:57 PM	#25
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Not so fast. I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony. They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl. Not sure how they were ineffective when they were ranked 4th in the NFL... Those were some of the least talented defenses the Saints have had in the last few decades, Williams deserves more credit then what you are giving him.

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12-13-2014, 03:59 PM	#26
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by Audiotom Williams gambled too much The last 49 drive in the 2011 playoffs All he needed to do was go prevent zone They go man single coverge and dial up a blitz Williams wants the 49ers to go down with shock and awe and Vernon Davis smokes us That could have easily been another Super bowl Champion Maybe the 49ers don't score so many points if our offense/special teams don't turn the ball over 5 times... lol

12-13-2014, 04:15 PM	#27
UK_WhoDat 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Wherever I lay my hat Posts: 3,947	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by jeanpierre Actually, 'decline' suggests a gradual degrade in strength... i.e. 'This thing is going down hill' Whereas, 'fall' suggests a rapid, acute, punctuated degrade... i.e. 'This thing just went off the cliff' Yep Unless you are Buzz Lightyear

12-14-2014, 09:42 AM	#28
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,832 Blog Entries: 3	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by hagan714 That came down to one one play and Williams had the right the defense called. just count up the players that missed the tackles. more than enough fire power in the right spot at the right time. that is when you blame the players and credit the Beast. The Davis play i do put on Williams. Wrong CB and poor safety support. But that is why we drafted speedy Robinson. But earlier in the game he gave up a TD because he got lost in the second level as WR went into motion then reversed field and motion back to his original side. more than once Robinson made a few bone head moves like that. so not putting him on Davis at that point in the game i can understand. excellent play call by the niners and great play by Smith on seeing that match up and keeping the safety frozen. look at the players we lost after the super bowl too. notice i did not go into his draft record at all? he did ok but he never could replace or upgrade that group. I am still amazed that they were so good together. That is when the youth movement started up a bit for the defense so in many ways you were starting from scratch. call it a fluke or whatever those defensive players the saints got together back in the beginning may not have been super stars or shut down types but they functioned well as a unit and had chemistry. that is the point of this piece. he got more out of what he had to work with than any DC since. No way that unit should have gotten us to the super bowl. They did just enough. Believe me it was not all talent. It was all guts and smarts Hasselbeck threw for 300yds and 4 tds. That's plain awful. There wasn't a "Davis play" - he was open all day long. Agree that he "did more with less" and that's a far cry from what RR has done with more.

12-14-2014, 09:44 AM	#29
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,832 Blog Entries: 3	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by Danno While true, the offense turned the ball over 5 times in the San Fran game. There isn't a defense in NFL history that can overcome that. True dat.

12-14-2014, 01:35 PM	#30
Exxcalibur Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,389	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by Audiotom Williams gambled too much The last 49 drive in the 2011 playoffs All he needed to do was go prevent zone They go man single coverge and dial up a blitz Williams wants the 49ers to go down with shock and awe and Vernon Davis smokes us That could have easily been another Super bowl Champion Its funny when you think of how much we all hate prevent when it turns up in the 4th quarter. In other news, I never had problems with bounty gate. I can't recall a game in any code played where we didnt want to go out and hurt the opposition.

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