The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints

Mardigras9 · 12-12-2014, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

True, its not about the guys we let go nearly as much as it is about the guys that are currently on the roster that aren't living up to expectations on and off the field.

This ^.

But yet, still with a shot. Season is not over.

blackangold · 12-12-2014, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

I have to agree with some of it but some of it is just crap. I don't think people give much credit to Sharper as they should for that D. Turnovers is what did it for that D that year and he pretty much was the leader and if I recall lead the team with INT's and pick 6.

This D has no leaders to make the players around them better. Until they find that leader welcome to the cellar.

Sharper was good but he was hurt in 2010 when we had the 4th rated D. Williams also had to deal with Vilma being hurt that year and still had the 4th rated D. Williams is still my favorite DC as of late, the bounty thing was overblown but the key to Williams was his ability to hype people up and make them aggressive. He took a bunch of average players and made them into a pack of angry dogs. Williams' defense worked even though they struggled at times it was consistent.

SaintsBro · 12-12-2014, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

Williams' defense worked even though they struggled at times it was consistent.

Exactly. You could feel reasonably comfortable, and get excited when they would line up on 3rd down, that something good would happen!

Gregg Williams defenses had this thing where, stuff that looked EASY for the other team's offense in the first half, wouldn't be as easy for them in the 2nd. You could see them clamping down and taking stuff away from the offense as the game wore on. Now? It's no different as the game progresses, in fact it's actually WORSE in the 4th than in the 1st quarter.

And you could also SEE the effect they had on opposing QB's, with your own two eyes -- they'd get guys rattled or unhappy or where you could tell the QB was just not wanting to be out there, he wanted to be anyplace else but on the field right then. The Saints defense would always give up that ONE big horrible running play, early in the game, 50, 60, 70 yards, usually for a TD....and 99 times out of 100, with the Gregg Williams D we'd be like, "okay, they got that one, but that's NOT gonna happen again!" and it WOULDN'T. Nowadays the big plays for the other team just keep on coming and coming.

saintsfan1976 · 12-12-2014, 01:04 PM

Not so fast.

I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony.

They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts
They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts

The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl.

RailBoss · 12-12-2014, 05:35 PM

An Empire is what New England has year after year, and Green Bay is starting to look the same way.

Danno · 12-12-2014, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Not so fast.

I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony.

They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts
They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts

The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl.

While true, the offense turned the ball over 5 times in the San Fran game. There isn't a defense in NFL history that can overcome that.

AlaskaSaints · 12-12-2014, 07:21 PM

His defense pretty much shut down the Cards last night.
Arguably the best D.C. in the league and I wish we had him back.

FinSaint · 12-12-2014, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Not so fast.

I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony.

Exactly. Watching that defense play was almost as bad at times as it is watching this current one.

While I'll forever be grateful to GW for being part of that SB winning team - I wouldn't want him back.

I still wish they would've gone with Romeo Crennel instead of RR, but I had to admit after last season that they made a good call - now it seems that it might've just been a fluke. I feel like Crennel would've been far superior long-term in creating a good complimentary defensive unit for SP's offense.

But then again, I was over the moon when they hired Spags to replace GW.

Mr.Riaton · 12-12-2014, 10:37 PM

GW had Dennis Allen coaching that secondary and I think that helped a lot,and it makes me wonder how much Ryan's D would improve having him back along with other new defensive coaches. Maybe Ryan's scheme isn't as bad as it seems to be...maybe it just needs some better coaching.

lee909 · 12-12-2014, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by AlaskaSaints

His defense pretty much shut down the Cards last night.
Arguably the best D.C. in the league and I wish we had him back.

If you gave a chimp that D-Line they would play well. The GM deserves credit for getting such a strong line set up there with depth and Ogletree is immense

12-12-2014, 09:21 AM	#11
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by Danno True, its not about the guys we let go nearly as much as it is about the guys that are currently on the roster that aren't living up to expectations on and off the field. This ^. But yet, still with a shot. Season is not over. Danno likes this.

12-12-2014, 11:52 AM	#12
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by Euphoria I have to agree with some of it but some of it is just crap. I don't think people give much credit to Sharper as they should for that D. Turnovers is what did it for that D that year and he pretty much was the leader and if I recall lead the team with INT's and pick 6. This D has no leaders to make the players around them better. Until they find that leader welcome to the cellar. Sharper was good but he was hurt in 2010 when we had the 4th rated D. Williams also had to deal with Vilma being hurt that year and still had the 4th rated D. Williams is still my favorite DC as of late, the bounty thing was overblown but the key to Williams was his ability to hype people up and make them aggressive. He took a bunch of average players and made them into a pack of angry dogs. Williams' defense worked even though they struggled at times it was consistent. hagan714 and MarchingOn like this.

12-12-2014, 12:06 PM	#13
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by blackangold Williams' defense worked even though they struggled at times it was consistent. Exactly. You could feel reasonably comfortable, and get excited when they would line up on 3rd down, that something good would happen! Gregg Williams defenses had this thing where, stuff that looked EASY for the other team's offense in the first half, wouldn't be as easy for them in the 2nd. You could see them clamping down and taking stuff away from the offense as the game wore on. Now? It's no different as the game progresses, in fact it's actually WORSE in the 4th than in the 1st quarter. And you could also SEE the effect they had on opposing QB's, with your own two eyes -- they'd get guys rattled or unhappy or where you could tell the QB was just not wanting to be out there, he wanted to be anyplace else but on the field right then. The Saints defense would always give up that ONE big horrible running play, early in the game, 50, 60, 70 yards, usually for a TD....and 99 times out of 100, with the Gregg Williams D we'd be like, "okay, they got that one, but that's NOT gonna happen again!" and it WOULDN'T. Nowadays the big plays for the other team just keep on coming and coming. hagan714, MarchingOn and VegasSaint9 like this.

12-12-2014, 01:04 PM	#14
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,832 Blog Entries: 3	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Not so fast. I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony. They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl. Danno, hagan714, jlouhill and 2 others like this.

12-12-2014, 05:35 PM	#15
RailBoss 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Of The Mason Dixon Line Posts: 7,113	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints An Empire is what New England has year after year, and Green Bay is starting to look the same way. hagan714 and MarchingOn like this.

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12-12-2014, 06:38 PM	#16
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Not so fast. I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony. They couldn't stop Hasselbeck or Lynch in the playoffs - 41pts They couldn't stop Alex Smith or Davis in the playoffs - 36pts The blitz became predictable and ineffective after the 2010 Superbowl. While true, the offense turned the ball over 5 times in the San Fran game. There isn't a defense in NFL history that can overcome that. UK_WhoDat, hagan714, saintsfan1976 and 2 others like this.

12-12-2014, 07:21 PM	#17
AlaskaSaints 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 2,484 Blog Entries: 2	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints His defense pretty much shut down the Cards last night. Arguably the best D.C. in the league and I wish we had him back.

12-12-2014, 08:19 PM	#18
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Not so fast. I seem to remember Williams's defense being sort of a one trick pony. Exactly. Watching that defense play was almost as bad at times as it is watching this current one. While I'll forever be grateful to GW for being part of that SB winning team - I wouldn't want him back. I still wish they would've gone with Romeo Crennel instead of RR, but I had to admit after last season that they made a good call - now it seems that it might've just been a fluke. I feel like Crennel would've been far superior long-term in creating a good complimentary defensive unit for SP's offense. But then again, I was over the moon when they hired Spags to replace GW.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

12-12-2014, 10:37 PM	#19
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,264	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints GW had Dennis Allen coaching that secondary and I think that helped a lot,and it makes me wonder how much Ryan's D would improve having him back along with other new defensive coaches. Maybe Ryan's scheme isn't as bad as it seems to be...maybe it just needs some better coaching.

12-12-2014, 10:45 PM	#20
lee909 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,803 Blog Entries: 1	Re: The Decline and Fall of Payton’s Empire, or How the Culture of Gregg Williams Ruined the Saints Originally Posted by AlaskaSaints His defense pretty much shut down the Cards last night. Arguably the best D.C. in the league and I wish we had him back. If you gave a chimp that D-Line they would play well. The GM deserves credit for getting such a strong line set up there with depth and Ogletree is immense brees84 likes this.

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