Why in the world am I doing this?!

saintswhodi · 02-01-2005, 10:21 AM

So basically JTS, you wanted to speak about Elway to push a pro Brooks idealogy. I got you. Why didn\'t you just make it about Brooks initially?

Elway was a one man team. One of the greatest ever. Brooks will never be in his layer of atmosphere. Ever at any point no way no how. I do not feel we can win with Brooks, you do. That\'s fine. But to make me go into this long discussion about Elway just so you can push a Brooks rant on me was, well actually, kinda clever. If Elway was part of a framework, he was 90% of it. Look, I am not the only one who says that. Denver FANS say that also. Elway is a God in Denver cause he left blood, sweat, and tears on the field not just occasionally, but every game. He willed those teams he had to the Superbowl on his shoulders.

Brooks shown flashes of grit in closing games? huh? Where? The Rams game? He threw the ball right to Aeneas Williams, who forgot how to catch and TIPPED IT to Horn. No brilliance there, that was a lucky break. I would hope he could play well against the team that picks first in the draft(49ers). I don\'t think he is THAT incompetent. But you never know. In the bucs game, he didn\'t show up until the 4th quarter, which I guess is good, but I don\'t wanna rely on that consistently. I can\'t say I would like my QB to chill for 3 quarters and then hope he explodes, like he did in thatgame. I am glad he did it, I am just saying I am not gonna rely on that.

And yes he needs to stop talking. He only makes me want him gone that much more. So next time you wanna discuss AB, just discuss AB. No more circuitous routes to get to your point okay pal?

saintfan · 02-01-2005, 10:31 AM

Elway was a one man team.

No such animal.

Brooks shown flashes of grit in closing games? huh? Where?

Do you have any idea how many come from behind game winning drives Brooks has led? Futher, can you recall any games where he led a closing minute come from behind drive only to watch the defense give the game away in the final seconds? I remember one recent example. Might I direct you to the first Saints/Falcons game this year.

No brilliance there, that was a lucky break.

Now, surely you\'re aware that there\'s no such thing as luck. Whodat? Gator? Where are the \"luck\" police? hmmmmm...

He willed those teams he had to the Superbowl on his shoulders.

Elway didn\'t win a thing \'til Denver got a running game. At least that\'s how I remember it.

Whodi, you complain about Brooks as if replacing him solves all our problems. When someone tries to suggest otherwise you \"rail\" \'em. Sound familiar...pal?

GumboBC · 02-01-2005, 10:32 AM

So next time you wanna discuss AB, just discuss AB. No more circuitous routes to get to your point okay pal?

What? This coming from the same guy who compares Brooks to every QB in the league.

Your comparing Brooks\' stats to EVERY other QB in the NFL is the reason I brought up the Brooks/Elway comparision in stats.

Now that I did it, you don\'t like playing the stat game!!

I told ya way back in this thread that you couldn\'t win the stat arguement.c

All you can do is say you don\'t think Brooks can get it done and I can say I think he will.

There ain\'t no proving anything. It\'s just kinda of fun trying...

saintswhodi · 02-01-2005, 10:41 AM

saintfan,

No such animal

Wrong. Vick and the Falcs, lastyear to this year, and the year before. Yikes.

Do you have any idea how many come from behind game winning drives Brooks has led? Futher, can you recall any games where he led a closing minute come from behind drive only to watch the defense give the game away in the final seconds? I remember one recent example. Might I direct you to the first Saints/Falcons game this year.

Umm, yes actually, he has about 12. Your point being? What does that have to do this year? So if he throws a terrible pass, and it hits a defender IN THE HANDS, and that defender doesn\'t intercept it but tips it to a Saint player and they win, that is a plus from Brooks in your mind? Okay. We disagree.

Elway didn\'t win a thing \'til Denver got a running game. At least that\'s how I remember it.

Whodi, you complain about Brooks as if replacing him solves all our problems. When someone tries to suggest otherwise you \"rail\" \'em. Sound familiar...pal?

Maybe you just wanna argue too. I have said several times IN THIS THREAD Elway did not WIN until he got Davis. I said he TOOK THEM TO THE SUPERBOWL. It\'s all in reading. I haven\'t railed anyone. Show me where please. Brooks can\'t do that, no matter how much you love him. Sorry.

Gumbo, it\'s not even worth it. I destroyed all your arguments previously and you ran. Please move on. As you told Saints LB, I would appreciate if you never respond to me again, and I will do the same. Cool?

Also smary guy, when someone asks you WHAT QB WOULD YOU TAKE OVER BROOKS, should I compare him to some defensive tackles? Wow, man, please just move on. :rollinglaugh:

[Edited on 1/2/2005 by saintswhodi]

johnnythesaint · 02-01-2005, 10:44 AM

I don\'t want to turn this into a situation Whodi, but if you read my initial post (sorry I don\'t know how to use the quote function) I specifically warned you that I was hoping to redirect the thread back to Brooks.
Having read the entire thread (and enjoying it) i had found it had disintegrated into nonsense. I was just offering my slant on Brooks\' and using Elway/teamwork as a platform to ground any unneccesary criticism.
I respect your position, but in the interest of this being a forum I was trying to persuade you otherwise, make you see it for yourself, instead of force feeding it on you.

For the record, I did paint you into a corner a bit

GumboBC · 02-01-2005, 10:45 AM

I would appreciate if you never respond to me again, and I will do the same. Cool?

Consider it a done deal.

saintswhodi · 02-01-2005, 10:57 AM

No problem JTS. You caught me off guard though when you called Elway a pocket passer. That really made me launch into a discussion about Elway. If he was anything, it wasn\'t that. But I do see what you were trying to do, and it was a good method, sort of teaching a man to fish type deal. I appreciate it. But if someone compares Brooks to Elway, I only see more reason to dislike Brooks. Even with the lack of talent around him, Elway never complained or cried about it or dissed his teammates. He just carried them. Over and over til he finally did get help. Brooks will never be that humble, no matter how terrible he plays, and I can\'t stand that. Then he pushes it off on the team, and I can\'t stand it. Not when we have guys who DO lay it on the line for this team. such as Horn. I appreciate your point of view, and your commentary, but Brooks IMHO will never lead this team anywhere except into continued mediocrity. And judging by some of the comments coming out of the front office these days, they may not so much feel he is the guy either. We could have Jerry Rice in his prime and Marvin Harrison on the other side, but when it takes your qb until the 4th quarter to get warmed up and such, it doesn\'t make much of a difference. Just seems to me no matter how much \"help\" he gets, all we are doing is trying to diminish his role in the offense. Well, he needs to take a paycut if so, cause someone else can QB a diminished role in the offense for less money. More help for the TEAM will be gained with that money. Long story short, as I have said 1,000 times, if AB played like he did in the last Carolina game, I would be on his bandwagon. But he usually doesn\'t, and I am sick of it. Sick of the, if we change 47 of the other 52 players on this team, then AB could really shine. That realistically doesn\'t happen in the NFL, and it ain\'t gonna happen here. So it\'s time to change AB.

saintfan · 02-01-2005, 11:25 AM

Sick of the, if we change 47 of the other 52 players on this team, then AB could really shine.

\"realistically\", no one here has said that.

Gimme a defense that can stop somebody. Without that the Great Johnny U ain\'t gonna win many. You disagree?

Gimme more than one WR that can (a) catch and (b) run their routes and we might just improve. After all, Mr. Horn can only catch it eh...somebody\'s gonna toss him the ball right? He didn\'t get those probowl numbers on his own did he?

Gimmie a line that can pass (or run) block and stop putting the team in unfavorible down and distance situations because they can\'t wait for the ball to be snapped and we might have something.

It\'s typical to blame the QB for more than he\'s responsible for, and I\'d think, based on your knowledge of the game, that you\'d recognize it, but it\'s fairly obvious you either (a) don\'t get it or (b) refuse to get it. Either way I heard one time that Brooks farted in the huddle. I\'m surprised you haven\'t brought that up yet. LMAO

saintswhodi · 02-01-2005, 11:31 AM

So instead of addressing what I responded to from YOUR post, you move on to other issues? Okay, I can do that. give me a QB who has completed over 60% of his passes in at least ONE SEASON of his career. Give me a QB who isn\'t laughed at by the national media. Give me a QB who can have a 3-1 TD to INT ratio, but not lead the league in fumbles. Give me a QB who even if he was great(which Brooks definitely is not) would not say so and throw his teammates under a bus in the same sentence. give me a QB who doesn\'t say there is \"false love\" on his team. Give me a qb, who knows a pass to anyone twenty yards behind the line of scrimmage is a bad idea. Then give me a qb who knows an under-handed blind pass with your back 10 yards from your own endzone to an opposing LB is a bad idea. Give me a QB who has actually done something to HOLD OUT FOR A NEW DEAL. Not one who tells me he\'s great and holds out. Give me a QB who it doesn\'t appear to take 3 quarters or at least more than one to warm up and get into the game. Give me a QB who doesn\'t take a 10 step drop behind an already poor line. And give me the same QB who doesn\'t back into the rush also. Give me a QB who can read a D and doesn\'t throw into double coverage. You disagree?

[Edited on 1/2/2005 by saintswhodi]

GumboBC · 02-01-2005, 11:35 AM

Sick of the, if we change 47 of the other 52 players on this team, then AB could really shine.

\"realistically\", no one here has said that.

Gimme a defense that can stop somebody. Without that the Great Johnny U ain\'t gonna win many. You disagree?

Gimme more than one WR that can (a) catch and (b) run their routes and we might just improve. After all, Mr. Horn can only catch it eh...somebody\'s gonna toss him the ball right? He didn\'t get those probowl numbers on his own did he?

Gimmie a line that can pass (or run) block and stop putting the team in unfavorible down and distance situations because they can\'t wait for the ball to be snapped and we might have something.

It\'s typical to blame the QB for more than he\'s responsible for, and I\'d think, based on your knowledge of the game, that you\'d recognize it, but it\'s fairly obvious you either (a) don\'t get it or (b) refuse to get it. Either way I heard one time that Brooks farted in the huddle. I\'m surprised you haven\'t brought that up yet. LMAO

Pretty funny.... :P

Why is it when there are so many obvious problems with this team..............

1. The offensive line can\'t block.
2. The 32nd ranked defense.

.........that folks want to focus in other areas.

Now, look, I KNOW the offensive line sucks. I know the defense sucked for 12 games.

All this other stuff y\'all are talking about, I ain\'t so sure about.

I don\'t know about all this bad play calling.

I don\'t know that lack of leadership at the QB is the problem.

I don\'t know that Haslett is doing a bad job.

But I do know the defense and offensive line is terrible.

So what should be fixed first?

The known? Or the unknown?

What\'s so hard to understand about that?

If your car doesn\'t start. Don\'t go changing out motors. See if its getting some gas and fire first. Fix the obvious and then see how it runs.

Simplistic, but oh so true...

02-01-2005, 10:21 AM	#71
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Why in the world am I doing this?! So basically JTS, you wanted to speak about Elway to push a pro Brooks idealogy. I got you. Why didn\'t you just make it about Brooks initially? Elway was a one man team. One of the greatest ever. Brooks will never be in his layer of atmosphere. Ever at any point no way no how. I do not feel we can win with Brooks, you do. That\'s fine. But to make me go into this long discussion about Elway just so you can push a Brooks rant on me was, well actually, kinda clever. If Elway was part of a framework, he was 90% of it. Look, I am not the only one who says that. Denver FANS say that also. Elway is a God in Denver cause he left blood, sweat, and tears on the field not just occasionally, but every game. He willed those teams he had to the Superbowl on his shoulders. Brooks shown flashes of grit in closing games? huh? Where? The Rams game? He threw the ball right to Aeneas Williams, who forgot how to catch and TIPPED IT to Horn. No brilliance there, that was a lucky break. I would hope he could play well against the team that picks first in the draft(49ers). I don\'t think he is THAT incompetent. But you never know. In the bucs game, he didn\'t show up until the 4th quarter, which I guess is good, but I don\'t wanna rely on that consistently. I can\'t say I would like my QB to chill for 3 quarters and then hope he explodes, like he did in thatgame. I am glad he did it, I am just saying I am not gonna rely on that. And yes he needs to stop talking. He only makes me want him gone that much more. So next time you wanna discuss AB, just discuss AB. No more circuitous routes to get to your point okay pal?

02-01-2005, 10:31 AM	#72
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Why in the world am I doing this?! Elway was a one man team. No such animal. Brooks shown flashes of grit in closing games? huh? Where? Do you have any idea how many come from behind game winning drives Brooks has led? Futher, can you recall any games where he led a closing minute come from behind drive only to watch the defense give the game away in the final seconds? I remember one recent example. Might I direct you to the first Saints/Falcons game this year. No brilliance there, that was a lucky break. Now, surely you\'re aware that there\'s no such thing as luck. Whodat? Gator? Where are the \"luck\" police? hmmmmm... He willed those teams he had to the Superbowl on his shoulders. Elway didn\'t win a thing \'til Denver got a running game. At least that\'s how I remember it. Whodi, you complain about Brooks as if replacing him solves all our problems. When someone tries to suggest otherwise you \"rail\" \'em. Sound familiar...pal?
	C'mon Man...

02-01-2005, 10:32 AM	#73
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Why in the world am I doing this?! So next time you wanna discuss AB, just discuss AB. No more circuitous routes to get to your point okay pal? What? This coming from the same guy who compares Brooks to every QB in the league. Your comparing Brooks\' stats to EVERY other QB in the NFL is the reason I brought up the Brooks/Elway comparision in stats. Now that I did it, you don\'t like playing the stat game!! I told ya way back in this thread that you couldn\'t win the stat arguement.c All you can do is say you don\'t think Brooks can get it done and I can say I think he will. There ain\'t no proving anything. It\'s just kinda of fun trying...
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-01-2005, 10:41 AM	#74
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Why in the world am I doing this?! saintfan, No such animal Wrong. Vick and the Falcs, lastyear to this year, and the year before. Yikes. Do you have any idea how many come from behind game winning drives Brooks has led? Futher, can you recall any games where he led a closing minute come from behind drive only to watch the defense give the game away in the final seconds? I remember one recent example. Might I direct you to the first Saints/Falcons game this year. Umm, yes actually, he has about 12. Your point being? What does that have to do this year? So if he throws a terrible pass, and it hits a defender IN THE HANDS, and that defender doesn\'t intercept it but tips it to a Saint player and they win, that is a plus from Brooks in your mind? Okay. We disagree. Elway didn\'t win a thing \'til Denver got a running game. At least that\'s how I remember it. Whodi, you complain about Brooks as if replacing him solves all our problems. When someone tries to suggest otherwise you \"rail\" \'em. Sound familiar...pal? Maybe you just wanna argue too. I have said several times IN THIS THREAD Elway did not WIN until he got Davis. I said he TOOK THEM TO THE SUPERBOWL. It\'s all in reading. I haven\'t railed anyone. Show me where please. Brooks can\'t do that, no matter how much you love him. Sorry. Gumbo, it\'s not even worth it. I destroyed all your arguments previously and you ran. Please move on. As you told Saints LB, I would appreciate if you never respond to me again, and I will do the same. Cool? Also smary guy, when someone asks you WHAT QB WOULD YOU TAKE OVER BROOKS, should I compare him to some defensive tackles? Wow, man, please just move on. :rollinglaugh: [Edited on 1/2/2005 by saintswhodi]

02-01-2005, 10:44 AM	#75
johnnythesaint 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 125	Why in the world am I doing this?! I don\'t want to turn this into a situation Whodi, but if you read my initial post (sorry I don\'t know how to use the quote function) I specifically warned you that I was hoping to redirect the thread back to Brooks. Having read the entire thread (and enjoying it) i had found it had disintegrated into nonsense. I was just offering my slant on Brooks\' and using Elway/teamwork as a platform to ground any unneccesary criticism. I respect your position, but in the interest of this being a forum I was trying to persuade you otherwise, make you see it for yourself, instead of force feeding it on you. For the record, I did paint you into a corner a bit
johnnythesaint 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 125	Flying in from Canada to see the Dolphins game Will it be a Carnival or a Circus?

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02-01-2005, 10:45 AM	#76
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Why in the world am I doing this?! I would appreciate if you never respond to me again, and I will do the same. Cool? Consider it a done deal.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-01-2005, 10:57 AM	#77
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Why in the world am I doing this?! No problem JTS. You caught me off guard though when you called Elway a pocket passer. That really made me launch into a discussion about Elway. If he was anything, it wasn\'t that. But I do see what you were trying to do, and it was a good method, sort of teaching a man to fish type deal. I appreciate it. But if someone compares Brooks to Elway, I only see more reason to dislike Brooks. Even with the lack of talent around him, Elway never complained or cried about it or dissed his teammates. He just carried them. Over and over til he finally did get help. Brooks will never be that humble, no matter how terrible he plays, and I can\'t stand that. Then he pushes it off on the team, and I can\'t stand it. Not when we have guys who DO lay it on the line for this team. such as Horn. I appreciate your point of view, and your commentary, but Brooks IMHO will never lead this team anywhere except into continued mediocrity. And judging by some of the comments coming out of the front office these days, they may not so much feel he is the guy either. We could have Jerry Rice in his prime and Marvin Harrison on the other side, but when it takes your qb until the 4th quarter to get warmed up and such, it doesn\'t make much of a difference. Just seems to me no matter how much \"help\" he gets, all we are doing is trying to diminish his role in the offense. Well, he needs to take a paycut if so, cause someone else can QB a diminished role in the offense for less money. More help for the TEAM will be gained with that money. Long story short, as I have said 1,000 times, if AB played like he did in the last Carolina game, I would be on his bandwagon. But he usually doesn\'t, and I am sick of it. Sick of the, if we change 47 of the other 52 players on this team, then AB could really shine. That realistically doesn\'t happen in the NFL, and it ain\'t gonna happen here. So it\'s time to change AB.

02-01-2005, 11:25 AM	#78
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Why in the world am I doing this?! Sick of the, if we change 47 of the other 52 players on this team, then AB could really shine. \"realistically\", no one here has said that. Gimme a defense that can stop somebody. Without that the Great Johnny U ain\'t gonna win many. You disagree? Gimme more than one WR that can (a) catch and (b) run their routes and we might just improve. After all, Mr. Horn can only catch it eh...somebody\'s gonna toss him the ball right? He didn\'t get those probowl numbers on his own did he? Gimmie a line that can pass (or run) block and stop putting the team in unfavorible down and distance situations because they can\'t wait for the ball to be snapped and we might have something. It\'s typical to blame the QB for more than he\'s responsible for, and I\'d think, based on your knowledge of the game, that you\'d recognize it, but it\'s fairly obvious you either (a) don\'t get it or (b) refuse to get it. Either way I heard one time that Brooks farted in the huddle. I\'m surprised you haven\'t brought that up yet. LMAO
	C'mon Man...

02-01-2005, 11:31 AM	#79
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Why in the world am I doing this?! So instead of addressing what I responded to from YOUR post, you move on to other issues? Okay, I can do that. give me a QB who has completed over 60% of his passes in at least ONE SEASON of his career. Give me a QB who isn\'t laughed at by the national media. Give me a QB who can have a 3-1 TD to INT ratio, but not lead the league in fumbles. Give me a QB who even if he was great(which Brooks definitely is not) would not say so and throw his teammates under a bus in the same sentence. give me a QB who doesn\'t say there is \"false love\" on his team. Give me a qb, who knows a pass to anyone twenty yards behind the line of scrimmage is a bad idea. Then give me a qb who knows an under-handed blind pass with your back 10 yards from your own endzone to an opposing LB is a bad idea. Give me a QB who has actually done something to HOLD OUT FOR A NEW DEAL. Not one who tells me he\'s great and holds out. Give me a QB who it doesn\'t appear to take 3 quarters or at least more than one to warm up and get into the game. Give me a QB who doesn\'t take a 10 step drop behind an already poor line. And give me the same QB who doesn\'t back into the rush also. Give me a QB who can read a D and doesn\'t throw into double coverage. You disagree? [Edited on 1/2/2005 by saintswhodi]

02-01-2005, 11:35 AM	#80
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Why in the world am I doing this?! Sick of the, if we change 47 of the other 52 players on this team, then AB could really shine. \"realistically\", no one here has said that. Gimme a defense that can stop somebody. Without that the Great Johnny U ain\'t gonna win many. You disagree? Gimme more than one WR that can (a) catch and (b) run their routes and we might just improve. After all, Mr. Horn can only catch it eh...somebody\'s gonna toss him the ball right? He didn\'t get those probowl numbers on his own did he? Gimmie a line that can pass (or run) block and stop putting the team in unfavorible down and distance situations because they can\'t wait for the ball to be snapped and we might have something. It\'s typical to blame the QB for more than he\'s responsible for, and I\'d think, based on your knowledge of the game, that you\'d recognize it, but it\'s fairly obvious you either (a) don\'t get it or (b) refuse to get it. Either way I heard one time that Brooks farted in the huddle. I\'m surprised you haven\'t brought that up yet. LMAO Pretty funny.... :P Why is it when there are so many obvious problems with this team.............. 1. The offensive line can\'t block. 2. The 32nd ranked defense. .........that folks want to focus in other areas. Now, look, I KNOW the offensive line sucks. I know the defense sucked for 12 games. All this other stuff y\'all are talking about, I ain\'t so sure about. I don\'t know about all this bad play calling. I don\'t know that lack of leadership at the QB is the problem. I don\'t know that Haslett is doing a bad job. But I do know the defense and offensive line is terrible. So what should be fixed first? The known? Or the unknown? What\'s so hard to understand about that? If your car doesn\'t start. Don\'t go changing out motors. See if its getting some gas and fire first. Fix the obvious and then see how it runs. Simplistic, but oh so true...
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616