Why trade Horn?

GumboBC · 02-23-2005, 12:02 PM

I don\'t think I\'ve heard ONE person say that we needed to get rid of Joe Horn.

Also, you don\'t build a winning organization because you want to hold onto players to try and build some kind of \"tradition\".

The bottom line is: Does a player help your team win? Can he get it done? The only other thing that would factor into the decision is the \"salary\".

If Joe wants to be paid like the best receiver in the NFL, then he\'s not worth that, IMO. I really think Joe is just jockeying for leverage in future negociations. We\'ll see...

saintswhodi · 02-23-2005, 12:11 PM

I agree Euph. I don\'t care about his antics on the field or any other players for that matter. I care about one number, 34. His age. That\'s it. That\'s why I mentioned Coles. He is faster than Joe, younger, but is basically the same receiver. HE makes tough catches, goes over the middle, and gives possessions to a terrible Redskins offense. He is a stud. If we could get Mike Williams in the draft if Joe was traded, I would be estatic at that possibility too. I love Joe. Love him. But when you keep aging players too long, sign them to new contracts and then have to cut them cause their production drops or they won\'t retire, you end up like the 49ers and now the Titans. We don\'t need that. We need to adddress this while Joe has value. We trade Joe to a team say like the Ravens and get a defensive player from them. Or we trade him for a decent pick. We get Coles, Mason, or Williams in the draft to replace him. If we get Coles or Mason, we still have an extra pick and a pro bowl receiver. If we get Williams, we still will have out other pick to use on defense. I don\'t see how it will hurt us that much.

4DSaints · 02-23-2005, 07:41 PM

Geez.
Does anyone see anything wrong with a little show-boating??? I don\'t. So what a player adds a little excitement to a game... big freakin\' deal! As long as you are into the game and produce for the team, let me add as well a team player.
As long as its not in the face of a player and outright flaunting in the face or near proximity of an opponet, then is all good.

I don\'t see a problem with a little show boating. I am a little old school and remember the days when a player did his job, went back to the huddle and celebrated by doing it again!

You have to admit that the whole cell phone thing was a little bit silly and a whole lot embarassing, and that was what I was alluding to earlier.

Horn is an outstanding receiver and I do enjoy most of his antics.

TayTay · 02-23-2005, 08:02 PM

TRADING HORN IS NOT AN OPTION :exclam:
If we trade the only consitant, reliable, and productive player on our team, what are we saying to potential free agents?
That if you do a good job and make the pro bowl for 4 out of 5 years you suddenly become over the hill.
I mean come on. 4 out of 5 years.
Jerry Rice didn\'t slow down until 39 or so and he is still going today.
While I never could or will compare Horn to Rice, this shows that some players can remain effective even when they get older.
Come on, 4 out of 5 is amazing.
Plus their is the issue of potentail free agents.
The NFL is a buisiness.
That means when players decide where they want to work they not only look at the money, but the prestige, manager relationship, and long term possibility.
Many of these players have families which do not want to move from year to year.
If we get rid of Horn now, we are releasing our most prestigous player who has always been a leader.
We are telling potential Saints that they do not have a future in the organization no matter how affective they are.
We are telling everyone that we do not care about winning

LongTimeFan · 02-23-2005, 08:14 PM

Trading Horn would be crazy, I don\'t see that to happen.
Horn is the best we have right now, Brooks likes him and gets the ball to him as often as he can, Horn is the real deal, he\'s a complete package, I wouldn\'t trade him for Randy Moss in a straight up deal, call me crazy but that\'s how much I like Horn, he\'s a team player, his mouth gets him in trouble at times but I can live with that.

saintswhodi · 02-23-2005, 08:43 PM

Okay, so when we are cutting Charles Grant and Will Smith and LeCharles because we play sentiments for Joe over good football business, are you then gonna say we shoulda traded Joe when we coulda got something for him? I mean take the sentiment out of it and look at it from a FOOTBALL standpoint. Does it make more sense to sign a 34 year old Joe Horn to a 3 or 4 year contract or get a Coles who is 27 or a Mike Williams who can be a star for 7 more years or longer?

mutineer10 · 02-23-2005, 09:04 PM

Horn leaves everything on the field every time, and is probably the best receiver this organizaation has ever had.

What, no love for Brett Perriman? Shame, shame, shame...

I\'m a Joe Horn fan. Lord knows we\'d be even worse than 8-8 every year if he weren\'t around. But he ain\'t gonna be around forever ... or much longer for that matter.

Then again, alot of folks were saying he was getting too old before last season. He responded by posting one of the best seasons of his career and topping it off with a visit to Hawaii. This \"getting old\" talk is sounding familiar.

Nevertheless, his increasing cap number cannot be ignored. Nor can his increasing age. It\'s a tightrope: there\'s always the chance Horn will continue to produce at a high level, and it\'s always nice to see an organization remain faithful to it\'s own. But there is no honor amongst thieves, and you can bet the farm Horn will be shown the door when his production fails to warrant his paycheck.

The only player who remains immune to that is ... well ... :P

TayTay · 02-23-2005, 09:16 PM

whoodi, what makes you think a team will give up an early first for horn.
It\'s as you said, whould you rather a 34 year old horn or a 20 year old mike williams.
Don\'t you think that every other tam has the same mind set.

saintswhodi · 02-23-2005, 10:22 PM

Never said anyone would give an early first for Horn. Mike Williams could fall, Edwards could fall. I would like us to get Coles, but I was just saying I wouldn\'t be disappointed if we got Williams. This is what I said:

If we could get Mike Williams in the draft

I never said we WOULD get an early pick for Joe.

TayTay · 02-23-2005, 10:36 PM

posted on 23/2/2005 at 11:11

If we could get Mike Williams in the draft if Joe was traded, I would be estatic at that possibility too

If we get Williams, we still will have out other pick to use on defense

To me, having \"this other pick\" implies two first round picks. In that post you were talking about what we could get for horn.
If I misunderstood, I apologize.
I thought you were implying we get an extra 1st for horn.
my bad.

02-23-2005, 12:02 PM	#11
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Why trade Horn? I don\'t think I\'ve heard ONE person say that we needed to get rid of Joe Horn. Also, you don\'t build a winning organization because you want to hold onto players to try and build some kind of \"tradition\". The bottom line is: Does a player help your team win? Can he get it done? The only other thing that would factor into the decision is the \"salary\". If Joe wants to be paid like the best receiver in the NFL, then he\'s not worth that, IMO. I really think Joe is just jockeying for leverage in future negociations. We\'ll see...
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-23-2005, 12:11 PM	#12
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Why trade Horn? I agree Euph. I don\'t care about his antics on the field or any other players for that matter. I care about one number, 34. His age. That\'s it. That\'s why I mentioned Coles. He is faster than Joe, younger, but is basically the same receiver. HE makes tough catches, goes over the middle, and gives possessions to a terrible Redskins offense. He is a stud. If we could get Mike Williams in the draft if Joe was traded, I would be estatic at that possibility too. I love Joe. Love him. But when you keep aging players too long, sign them to new contracts and then have to cut them cause their production drops or they won\'t retire, you end up like the 49ers and now the Titans. We don\'t need that. We need to adddress this while Joe has value. We trade Joe to a team say like the Ravens and get a defensive player from them. Or we trade him for a decent pick. We get Coles, Mason, or Williams in the draft to replace him. If we get Coles or Mason, we still have an extra pick and a pro bowl receiver. If we get Williams, we still will have out other pick to use on defense. I don\'t see how it will hurt us that much.

02-23-2005, 07:41 PM	#13
4DSaints Registered Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 35	Why trade Horn? Geez. Does anyone see anything wrong with a little show-boating??? I don\'t. So what a player adds a little excitement to a game... big freakin\' deal! As long as you are into the game and produce for the team, let me add as well a team player. As long as its not in the face of a player and outright flaunting in the face or near proximity of an opponet, then is all good. I don\'t see a problem with a little show boating. I am a little old school and remember the days when a player did his job, went back to the huddle and celebrated by doing it again! You have to admit that the whole cell phone thing was a little bit silly and a whole lot embarassing, and that was what I was alluding to earlier. Horn is an outstanding receiver and I do enjoy most of his antics.
4DSaints Registered Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 35

02-23-2005, 08:02 PM	#14
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118	Why trade Horn? TRADING HORN IS NOT AN OPTION :exclam: If we trade the only consitant, reliable, and productive player on our team, what are we saying to potential free agents? That if you do a good job and make the pro bowl for 4 out of 5 years you suddenly become over the hill. I mean come on. 4 out of 5 years. Jerry Rice didn\'t slow down until 39 or so and he is still going today. While I never could or will compare Horn to Rice, this shows that some players can remain effective even when they get older. Come on, 4 out of 5 is amazing. Plus their is the issue of potentail free agents. The NFL is a buisiness. That means when players decide where they want to work they not only look at the money, but the prestige, manager relationship, and long term possibility. Many of these players have families which do not want to move from year to year. If we get rid of Horn now, we are releasing our most prestigous player who has always been a leader. We are telling potential Saints that they do not have a future in the organization no matter how affective they are. We are telling everyone that we do not care about winning
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118	http://img188.echo.cx/img188/2215/untitled29jc.jpg

02-23-2005, 08:14 PM	#15
LongTimeFan Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Louisiana Posts: 2,403	Why trade Horn? Trading Horn would be crazy, I don\'t see that to happen. Horn is the best we have right now, Brooks likes him and gets the ball to him as often as he can, Horn is the real deal, he\'s a complete package, I wouldn\'t trade him for Randy Moss in a straight up deal, call me crazy but that\'s how much I like Horn, he\'s a team player, his mouth gets him in trouble at times but I can live with that.

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02-23-2005, 08:43 PM	#16
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Why trade Horn? Okay, so when we are cutting Charles Grant and Will Smith and LeCharles because we play sentiments for Joe over good football business, are you then gonna say we shoulda traded Joe when we coulda got something for him? I mean take the sentiment out of it and look at it from a FOOTBALL standpoint. Does it make more sense to sign a 34 year old Joe Horn to a 3 or 4 year contract or get a Coles who is 27 or a Mike Williams who can be a star for 7 more years or longer?

02-23-2005, 09:04 PM	#17
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	Why trade Horn? Horn leaves everything on the field every time, and is probably the best receiver this organizaation has ever had. What, no love for Brett Perriman? Shame, shame, shame... I\'m a Joe Horn fan. Lord knows we\'d be even worse than 8-8 every year if he weren\'t around. But he ain\'t gonna be around forever ... or much longer for that matter. Then again, alot of folks were saying he was getting too old before last season. He responded by posting one of the best seasons of his career and topping it off with a visit to Hawaii. This \"getting old\" talk is sounding familiar. Nevertheless, his increasing cap number cannot be ignored. Nor can his increasing age. It\'s a tightrope: there\'s always the chance Horn will continue to produce at a high level, and it\'s always nice to see an organization remain faithful to it\'s own. But there is no honor amongst thieves, and you can bet the farm Horn will be shown the door when his production fails to warrant his paycheck. The only player who remains immune to that is ... well ... :P

02-23-2005, 09:16 PM	#18
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118	Why trade Horn? whoodi, what makes you think a team will give up an early first for horn. It\'s as you said, whould you rather a 34 year old horn or a 20 year old mike williams. Don\'t you think that every other tam has the same mind set.
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118

02-23-2005, 10:22 PM	#19
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Why trade Horn? Never said anyone would give an early first for Horn. Mike Williams could fall, Edwards could fall. I would like us to get Coles, but I was just saying I wouldn\'t be disappointed if we got Williams. This is what I said: If we could get Mike Williams in the draft I never said we WOULD get an early pick for Joe.

02-23-2005, 10:36 PM	#20
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118	Why trade Horn? posted on 23/2/2005 at 11:11 If we could get Mike Williams in the draft if Joe was traded, I would be estatic at that possibility too If we get Williams, we still will have out other pick to use on defense To me, having \"this other pick\" implies two first round picks. In that post you were talking about what we could get for horn. If I misunderstood, I apologize. I thought you were implying we get an extra 1st for horn. my bad.
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118