Offense hurt Defense Part 2.

Tobias-Reiper · 02-23-2005, 07:14 PM

I\'ve clearly showed you where the worst offense in the NFL, the Dolphins, ranked 8th in total defense.

..wow.. this must be the first time in the history of the NFL that an offense raked higher than 10 in total defense!!!!!! :rollinglaugh:

..but seriously...
... a wise man once said:
\"...it takes longer to run the ball than to pass the ball...\"

GumboBC · 02-23-2005, 07:41 PM

Gator --

Quit arguing just to be arguing. You know our defense suked. They would suck one a mile long if they didn\'t have to walk back...LMAO

Name 3 defenses worse than ours?

Tough ain\'t it? LOL

GumboBC · 02-23-2005, 08:22 PM

Me arguing just to be arguing? Dude, you got zero room to talk there. Thats funny. For a second there I\'d have thought that comment was just for Joe or Halo to get me into trouble. Too bad, they read enough to know I\'ve kept up my end of the bargain. Some haven\'t

How does this work again? I state my opinion after you make an conclusion on a public forum, then you ask me questions? Gee, doesn\'t sound right to me Billy. Do I get to ask you questions too?

You know I was only playing. Don\'t make me come over there!! :P

baronm · 02-24-2005, 12:22 PM

I\'m still waiting on SOMEBODY to show me how the Dolphins, Bucs, Ravens, Bills, and Redskins finished in the TOP 10 defenses in the NFL with worse offenses than the Saints?!

well for one thing get your stat evidence right-the first rule in research is not to compare apples and oranges...

you want to find out why our offense hurt our defense look at time on feild and how many first downs our offense got verus how many our defense gave up...that would be a fair research..not scoring offense versus first down defense..that means nothing..

GumboBC · 02-24-2005, 12:33 PM

I\'m still waiting on SOMEBODY to show me how the Dolphins, Bucs, Ravens, Bills, and Redskins finished in the TOP 10 defenses in the NFL with worse offenses than the Saints?!

well for one thing get your stat evidence right-the first rule in research is not to compare apples and oranges...

you want to find out why our offense hurt our defense look at time on feild and how many first downs our offense got verus how many our defense gave up...that would be a fair research..not scoring offense versus first down defense..that means nothing..

I don\'t get what you\'re talking about.

Let me explain.....

It has been said that our offense was largely to blame for our defense finishing 32nd. They said we didn\'t make enough first downs and that put our defense back on the field.

I agree that our offense hurt our defense SOME.

But, as I\'ve shown, the Dolphins, Bucs, Ravens, Bills and Redskins offenses put their defense in more bad situations than ours and their defenses still finished in the TOP TEN!!

That\'s apples to apples all day long. At least in my eyes.

Take a bite of the appple .... see the light.... Hey, I\'m just kidding but do you see my point?

Also, yeah, everyone knows the best place for a struggling defense is on the bench. Does anyone think that someone doesn\'t know that? But, I also know that when our defense was on the field they couldn\'t stop ANYBODY.

Like I\'ve said, our defense EARNED every bit of that 32nd ranking. I can\'t think of ANYONE else that deserved it any more!!

baronm · 02-24-2005, 01:26 PM

no apples to apples is looking at how many first downs our offense got..then looking at how many first downs our defense gave up...then looking at time on the feild..you will start to see a correlation. basic statistics.

GumboBC · 02-24-2005, 01:48 PM

no apples to apples is looking at how many first downs our offense got..then looking at how many first downs our defense gave up...then looking at time on the feild..you will start to see a correlation. basic statistics.

This is what I know:

The Dolphins, Redskins, Bucs, Ravens and Bills offenses made LESS first downs than us. I also know that all of those teams defenses allowed LESS first downs than our defense.

Those other team\'s offenses ran less plays than the Saints\' offense and their defenses still finished in the TOP 10. I\'m talking about TOP 10 here. Not 22nd, or 19th, TOP 10!

You think the Dolphins hurt their defense worse than our offense hurt our defense. We\'re talking about the freakin\' Dohpins\' offense. And their defense finished 8th in the NFL.

[Edited on 24/2/2005 by GumboBC]

[Edited on 24/2/2005 by GumboBC]

JKool · 02-24-2005, 02:20 PM

I\'m going to be honest here, this apples and oranges thing never ceases to confuse me.

Some people think that comparing the Dolphins to the Saints is apples and oranges. Others think comparing the Defense to the Offense is apples and oranges.

Myself, I\'ve never really seen much of a problem comparing apples and oranges. One set is red and or green, the other is orange. One is more firm than the other. One has a horrible tasting peel. Those are comparisons aren\'t they?

I guess, I don\'t see a problem comparing the number of first downs allowed versus the number of first downs gained. I also don\'t see a problem comparing the Dolphins to the Saints. I guess the real questions are something more like these: (1) what are the relevant similarities (and there appear to be some in these cases), and (2) what conclusion are we trying to get from the comparison (some conclusions will be too strong to draw from a comparison, but others aren\'t too much of a stretch).

I guess, right now, I\'m inclined to think the Dolphins are a reasonable comparison. What does this show? It shows that an offense with a bad track record for first downs didn\'t hurt their defense. This should lead us to ask, why did our offense hurt our defense so much, when it didn\'t happen to this other team (or, perhaps, it should lead us to believe that the offenses lack of first downs is not correlated strongly to our defenses poor showing)?

saintswhodi · 02-24-2005, 02:33 PM

I guess, right now, I\'m inclined to think the Dolphins are a reasonable comparison. What does this show? It shows that an offense with a bad track record for first downs didn\'t hurt their defense. This should lead us to ask, why did our offense hurt our defense so much, when it didn\'t happen to this other team (or, perhaps, it should lead us to believe that the offenses lack of first downs is not correlated strongly to our defenses poor showing)?

Well, the Dolphins D is A LOT more talented than ours, it\'s not even close. As well as any of those other teams mentioned. The talent on those defenses can overcome mistakes by their offenses. We have no such luxury. None. Our margin for error by our offense is minimal due to the lack of overall talent on the D, and they far exceeded it.

JKool · 02-24-2005, 02:43 PM

I see. Thus, it is because our Defense is so awful that our defense effects them so much. If our Defense was any good (or much better), then how our Offense did wouldn\'t effect them very much, if at all?

I think I\'m on board with that idea.

PS - I wonder if some of you guys have a little alarm that goes off when a response is posted - your response time is like 12 seconds or something...

PPS - Just so you all know, I really appreciated all the notes and concern the other day. I\'m on the mend from my outside concerns, so hopefully I\'ll be at full strength soon. Again, thank you all. Also, I wanted to apologize for blowing up like that; it was pretty immature, and I apologize to all those I made feel bad, concerned, or guilty - this was mostly on me, not any of you jointly or severally.

[Edited on 24/2/2005 by JKool]

02-23-2005, 07:14 PM	#11
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Offense hurt Defense Part 2. I\'ve clearly showed you where the worst offense in the NFL, the Dolphins, ranked 8th in total defense. ..wow.. this must be the first time in the history of the NFL that an offense raked higher than 10 in total defense!!!!!! :rollinglaugh: ..but seriously... ... a wise man once said: \"...it takes longer to run the ball than to pass the ball...\"

02-23-2005, 07:41 PM	#12
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Offense hurt Defense Part 2. Gator -- Quit arguing just to be arguing. You know our defense suked. They would suck one a mile long if they didn\'t have to walk back...LMAO Name 3 defenses worse than ours? Tough ain\'t it? LOL
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-23-2005, 08:22 PM	#13
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Offense hurt Defense Part 2. Me arguing just to be arguing? Dude, you got zero room to talk there. Thats funny. For a second there I\'d have thought that comment was just for Joe or Halo to get me into trouble. Too bad, they read enough to know I\'ve kept up my end of the bargain. Some haven\'t How does this work again? I state my opinion after you make an conclusion on a public forum, then you ask me questions? Gee, doesn\'t sound right to me Billy. Do I get to ask you questions too? You know I was only playing. Don\'t make me come over there!! :P
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-24-2005, 12:22 PM	#14
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	Offense hurt Defense Part 2. I\'m still waiting on SOMEBODY to show me how the Dolphins, Bucs, Ravens, Bills, and Redskins finished in the TOP 10 defenses in the NFL with worse offenses than the Saints?! well for one thing get your stat evidence right-the first rule in research is not to compare apples and oranges... you want to find out why our offense hurt our defense look at time on feild and how many first downs our offense got verus how many our defense gave up...that would be a fair research..not scoring offense versus first down defense..that means nothing..
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

02-24-2005, 12:33 PM	#15
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Offense hurt Defense Part 2. I\'m still waiting on SOMEBODY to show me how the Dolphins, Bucs, Ravens, Bills, and Redskins finished in the TOP 10 defenses in the NFL with worse offenses than the Saints?! well for one thing get your stat evidence right-the first rule in research is not to compare apples and oranges... you want to find out why our offense hurt our defense look at time on feild and how many first downs our offense got verus how many our defense gave up...that would be a fair research..not scoring offense versus first down defense..that means nothing.. I don\'t get what you\'re talking about. Let me explain..... It has been said that our offense was largely to blame for our defense finishing 32nd. They said we didn\'t make enough first downs and that put our defense back on the field. I agree that our offense hurt our defense SOME. But, as I\'ve shown, the Dolphins, Bucs, Ravens, Bills and Redskins offenses put their defense in more bad situations than ours and their defenses still finished in the TOP TEN!! That\'s apples to apples all day long. At least in my eyes. Take a bite of the appple .... see the light.... Hey, I\'m just kidding but do you see my point? Also, yeah, everyone knows the best place for a struggling defense is on the bench. Does anyone think that someone doesn\'t know that? But, I also know that when our defense was on the field they couldn\'t stop ANYBODY. Like I\'ve said, our defense EARNED every bit of that 32nd ranking. I can\'t think of ANYONE else that deserved it any more!!
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

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02-24-2005, 01:26 PM	#16
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	Offense hurt Defense Part 2. no apples to apples is looking at how many first downs our offense got..then looking at how many first downs our defense gave up...then looking at time on the feild..you will start to see a correlation. basic statistics.
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

02-24-2005, 01:48 PM	#17
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Offense hurt Defense Part 2. no apples to apples is looking at how many first downs our offense got..then looking at how many first downs our defense gave up...then looking at time on the feild..you will start to see a correlation. basic statistics. This is what I know: The Dolphins, Redskins, Bucs, Ravens and Bills offenses made LESS first downs than us. I also know that all of those teams defenses allowed LESS first downs than our defense. Those other team\'s offenses ran less plays than the Saints\' offense and their defenses still finished in the TOP 10. I\'m talking about TOP 10 here. Not 22nd, or 19th, TOP 10! You think the Dolphins hurt their defense worse than our offense hurt our defense. We\'re talking about the freakin\' Dohpins\' offense. And their defense finished 8th in the NFL. [Edited on 24/2/2005 by GumboBC] [Edited on 24/2/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-24-2005, 02:20 PM	#18
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Offense hurt Defense Part 2. I\'m going to be honest here, this apples and oranges thing never ceases to confuse me. Some people think that comparing the Dolphins to the Saints is apples and oranges. Others think comparing the Defense to the Offense is apples and oranges. Myself, I\'ve never really seen much of a problem comparing apples and oranges. One set is red and or green, the other is orange. One is more firm than the other. One has a horrible tasting peel. Those are comparisons aren\'t they? I guess, I don\'t see a problem comparing the number of first downs allowed versus the number of first downs gained. I also don\'t see a problem comparing the Dolphins to the Saints. I guess the real questions are something more like these: (1) what are the relevant similarities (and there appear to be some in these cases), and (2) what conclusion are we trying to get from the comparison (some conclusions will be too strong to draw from a comparison, but others aren\'t too much of a stretch). I guess, right now, I\'m inclined to think the Dolphins are a reasonable comparison. What does this show? It shows that an offense with a bad track record for first downs didn\'t hurt their defense. This should lead us to ask, why did our offense hurt our defense so much, when it didn\'t happen to this other team (or, perhaps, it should lead us to believe that the offenses lack of first downs is not correlated strongly to our defenses poor showing)?
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

02-24-2005, 02:33 PM	#19
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Offense hurt Defense Part 2. I guess, right now, I\'m inclined to think the Dolphins are a reasonable comparison. What does this show? It shows that an offense with a bad track record for first downs didn\'t hurt their defense. This should lead us to ask, why did our offense hurt our defense so much, when it didn\'t happen to this other team (or, perhaps, it should lead us to believe that the offenses lack of first downs is not correlated strongly to our defenses poor showing)? Well, the Dolphins D is A LOT more talented than ours, it\'s not even close. As well as any of those other teams mentioned. The talent on those defenses can overcome mistakes by their offenses. We have no such luxury. None. Our margin for error by our offense is minimal due to the lack of overall talent on the D, and they far exceeded it.

02-24-2005, 02:43 PM	#20
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Offense hurt Defense Part 2. I see. Thus, it is because our Defense is so awful that our defense effects them so much. If our Defense was any good (or much better), then how our Offense did wouldn\'t effect them very much, if at all? I think I\'m on board with that idea. PS - I wonder if some of you guys have a little alarm that goes off when a response is posted - your response time is like 12 seconds or something... PPS - Just so you all know, I really appreciated all the notes and concern the other day. I\'m on the mend from my outside concerns, so hopefully I\'ll be at full strength soon. Again, thank you all. Also, I wanted to apologize for blowing up like that; it was pretty immature, and I apologize to all those I made feel bad, concerned, or guilty - this was mostly on me, not any of you jointly or severally. [Edited on 24/2/2005 by JKool]
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks