Courtney Watson

Danno · 02-28-2005, 11:19 AM

Danno,

First things first!!

I have concerns about every single LB on this team. Bockwaldt, Allen, Watson, etc., ect....

But, in this particular thread, I wanted to talk about Courtney Watson. Maybe that\'s why the \"title\" of this thread is \"Courtney Waton\"?!

All I hear you doing is comparing Watson to the other Saints\' linebackers in order to say \"he\'s the best we\'ve got.\" Yeah, so what? That ain\'t saying a whole hell of a lot and it doesn\'t make me feel any better about Watson.

Why don\'t you compare Watson with some of these proven MLB in free-agency and tell me which one\'s better?

I\'d love to replace all 3-linebacker spots with proven guys. But, that just isn\'t practical. For my money, MLB is more important and that\'s where I want to improve.

I happen to think Bockwaldt played well at WLB and I don\'t think Watson played that well at MLB. That does not mean I think Bockwaldt is the answer, though. Just means I feel better about Bockwaldt than Watson.

You feel differently and that\'s fine. And I respect your opinion.

But, don\'t be telling me that my opinion is laughable.

With your plan, we have no one else but Watson at MLB.

With my plan, we get a proven MLB and Watson can slide over to WLB.

You don\'t think Watson can play there?

Sorry, I meant to edit out the laugable comment. Its not laughable.

I do think Watson can probably play the WLB as well as the SLB position. And you are in good company with Mike Detillier thinking the same thing. I have much respect for Mike\'s opinion.

At least we\'re discussion the appropriate unit for a change.

I love this. My contention was it appeared you were singling out Watson when many think he\'s probably the only one worth keeping on this entire unit. But it was merely an assuption based on the fact that the title of this thread was \"Courtney Watson\".

If the right MLB is available in FA, then I\'m OK with it. I\'d rather get a SLB or a WLB 1st but thats my opinion.

As long as we\'re discussing linebackers I\'m on cloud nine. :heartpump:

GumboBC · 02-28-2005, 11:27 AM

Danno-

I was just looking at some of Courtney Watson\'s stats. Maybe I\'m wrong about this guy!

In his first game against the Seahawks, he had 11- tackles. That ain\'t shabby!! And in the rest of his games, his stats were respectable.

Courtney got injured in about the 5th game and then Haslett let Ruff start for awhile before inserting Watson back into the starting lineup.

I\'m on board with either plan.

Either get a proven WLB or MLB. I\'d be happy with either scenario.

Danno · 02-28-2005, 11:31 AM

You want to talk about the Saints\' front office really doing a great job of selling a player to the fans, just take a look at Courtney Watson.
I can never understand why some fans are so high on this guy!
Maybe it was the press clippings. Maybe it\'s because he was considered to be a very \"intelligent guy\". Maybe it\'s because Haslett praised the guy so much.

I don\'t remember the front office selling us Watson. But my memory slips sometimes. I thought they tried to sell us Cie Grant daily and reiterated several times that Watson wasn\'t ready yet and Cie was outplaying him. The only thing I remember was them say he had a chance to heck of a player. I don\'t remember any heaping praise. Most of the praise came from the reporters covering them in training camp. Mel Kiper had him ranked the #1 MLB coming into the draft. Others had him anywhere from 2nd to 6th.

At least he\'s not named Orlando or Sedrick.

[Edited on 28/2/2005 by Danno]

GumboBC · 02-28-2005, 11:37 AM

don\'t remember the front office selling us Watson. In fact they tried to sell us Cie Grant for the most part and reiterated several times that Watson wasn\'t ready yet and Cie was outplaying him. The only thing I remember was them say he had a chance to heck of a player. I don\'t remember any heaping praise. Most of the praise came from the reporters covering them in training camp.

I probably exagerated a bit. But, Haslett did praise the guy a good bit.

He said things like Watson was one of the most intelligent players he\'s ever been around. And that he had natural leadership qualities.

But, Haslett didn\'t go overboard and I generally think Haslett speaks his mind.

I need to stop it with saying Haslett has sold fans on certain players. Fans sell themselves!! What\'s Haslett suppose to say .. They suck? LOL

GoldenTomb · 02-28-2005, 11:58 AM

Gumbo I had to chime in on this one.

I think the key word that people are missing here is UPSIDE.

Like it was mentioned earlier, he is just a rookie. I can\'t think of any MLBs that were noticeably impressive right out of the gate(I didn\'t see Ray Lewis in his rookie year).

Intelligence is not that common an attribute in the NFL, and it makes the player much easier to work with, which is why Haslett speaks highly of him. The mental part of the game is the toughest to grasp. I don\'t see it as selling him necessarily, just saying what he personally feels.

Than again Danny Wuerffel was an intelligent player too.

This season will serve as a better barometer of Watson\'s potential and progress, I\'m sure.

turbo_dog · 02-28-2005, 01:23 PM

MLB is NOT the most important position on defense by far. If it was, then why do most of the top MLB\'s in the draft last until the middle rounds to be selected. The SLB and WLB are both as important if not more than a MLB. In fact I\'d say the MLB is probably the least important of the 3 LB\'s n a 4-3.

What are you talking about? Going back five years, to from the 1999 draft to last year\'s, there have been 9 MLBs chosen in the first round and only 5 OLBs. I believe they are all important, in fact I\'ve said many times that the LB corps as a whole is the most important unit on the field. I don\'t think you can make the argument that the OLB is soooo much more important than a MLB. Especially since your first point on the argument wasn\'t true, i.e. the draft positions.

baronm · 02-28-2005, 01:31 PM

New Orleans Saints
Depth Chart

1) OLB - Other than Courtney Watson in the middle they have little to write home about here

2) SS - Jay Bellamy can certainly be upgraded but otherwise the secondary is in decent shape

3) DT - It is not too early and we can definately write off Johnathan Sullivan as a bust

4) QB - Even if Aaron Brooks stays they need a youngster to develop

5) RB - The team still needs a top backup to their star runner Deuce McAllister

this came from NFL countdown..and many other scouts also veiw watson as our only untouchable linebacker.

no_cloning · 02-28-2005, 02:03 PM

What are you talking about? Going back five years, to from the 1999 draft to last year\'s, there have been 9 MLBs chosen in the first round and only 5 OLBs.

All Danno was saying that MLB is NOT the most important position on defense, which Billy was at least implying.

Haslett praising Watson: I mostly remember Haz making these statements about Watson right after the draft, which is completely normal.

Watson\'s stats first 3-4 games: Watson appeared on some lists as one of the best rookies after the first 4 games. Most of us agreed that it was laughable (there\'s that word again) and the people making those lists didn\'t watch the games, but only looked at his stats. He was out of position often and generally didn\'t have good games - even with 11 tackles.

turbo_dog · 02-28-2005, 02:11 PM

I know what he said, that is why I quoted it in my post and made the statement I was responding to bold.

GumboBC · 02-28-2005, 02:12 PM

All Danno was saying that MLB is NOT the most important position on defense, which Billy was at least implying.

Haslett praising Watson: I mostly remember Haz making these statements about Watson right after the draft, which is completely normal.

Watson\'s stats first 3-4 games: Watson appeared on some lists as one of the best rookies after the first 4 games. Most of us agreed that it was laughable (there\'s that word again) and the people making those lists didn\'t watch the games, but only looked at his stats. He was out of position often and generally didn\'t have good games - even with 11 tackles.

Yes, I did imply that MLB position was one of the most important positions on the defense.

Just to clarify, I do not think it\'s the most important position.

I believe the front 4 are the most important positions on defense. With the DT being the most important and then the DE.

After that I think it\'s MLB, OLB, and SLB. In that order.

Then CB and safety.

Getting back to Watson. I too think he was out of position far too often. I understand he was a rookie and all. And I understand rookies usually improve. The \"key\" word being \"usually\".

So, I think MLB is the 5th most important spot of the defense. And have some serious doubts about Watson....

02-28-2005, 11:19 AM	#21
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Courtney Watson Danno, First things first!! I have concerns about every single LB on this team. Bockwaldt, Allen, Watson, etc., ect.... But, in this particular thread, I wanted to talk about Courtney Watson. Maybe that\'s why the \"title\" of this thread is \"Courtney Waton\"?! All I hear you doing is comparing Watson to the other Saints\' linebackers in order to say \"he\'s the best we\'ve got.\" Yeah, so what? That ain\'t saying a whole hell of a lot and it doesn\'t make me feel any better about Watson. Why don\'t you compare Watson with some of these proven MLB in free-agency and tell me which one\'s better? I\'d love to replace all 3-linebacker spots with proven guys. But, that just isn\'t practical. For my money, MLB is more important and that\'s where I want to improve. I happen to think Bockwaldt played well at WLB and I don\'t think Watson played that well at MLB. That does not mean I think Bockwaldt is the answer, though. Just means I feel better about Bockwaldt than Watson. You feel differently and that\'s fine. And I respect your opinion. But, don\'t be telling me that my opinion is laughable. With your plan, we have no one else but Watson at MLB. With my plan, we get a proven MLB and Watson can slide over to WLB. You don\'t think Watson can play there? Sorry, I meant to edit out the laugable comment. Its not laughable. I do think Watson can probably play the WLB as well as the SLB position. And you are in good company with Mike Detillier thinking the same thing. I have much respect for Mike\'s opinion. At least we\'re discussion the appropriate unit for a change. I love this. My contention was it appeared you were singling out Watson when many think he\'s probably the only one worth keeping on this entire unit. But it was merely an assuption based on the fact that the title of this thread was \"Courtney Watson\". If the right MLB is available in FA, then I\'m OK with it. I\'d rather get a SLB or a WLB 1st but thats my opinion. As long as we\'re discussing linebackers I\'m on cloud nine. :heartpump:

02-28-2005, 11:27 AM	#22
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Courtney Watson Danno- I was just looking at some of Courtney Watson\'s stats. Maybe I\'m wrong about this guy! In his first game against the Seahawks, he had 11- tackles. That ain\'t shabby!! And in the rest of his games, his stats were respectable. Courtney got injured in about the 5th game and then Haslett let Ruff start for awhile before inserting Watson back into the starting lineup. I\'m on board with either plan. Either get a proven WLB or MLB. I\'d be happy with either scenario.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-28-2005, 11:31 AM	#23
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Courtney Watson You want to talk about the Saints\' front office really doing a great job of selling a player to the fans, just take a look at Courtney Watson. I can never understand why some fans are so high on this guy! Maybe it was the press clippings. Maybe it\'s because he was considered to be a very \"intelligent guy\". Maybe it\'s because Haslett praised the guy so much. I don\'t remember the front office selling us Watson. But my memory slips sometimes. I thought they tried to sell us Cie Grant daily and reiterated several times that Watson wasn\'t ready yet and Cie was outplaying him. The only thing I remember was them say he had a chance to heck of a player. I don\'t remember any heaping praise. Most of the praise came from the reporters covering them in training camp. Mel Kiper had him ranked the #1 MLB coming into the draft. Others had him anywhere from 2nd to 6th. At least he\'s not named Orlando or Sedrick. [Edited on 28/2/2005 by Danno]

02-28-2005, 11:37 AM	#24
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Courtney Watson don\'t remember the front office selling us Watson. In fact they tried to sell us Cie Grant for the most part and reiterated several times that Watson wasn\'t ready yet and Cie was outplaying him. The only thing I remember was them say he had a chance to heck of a player. I don\'t remember any heaping praise. Most of the praise came from the reporters covering them in training camp. I probably exagerated a bit. But, Haslett did praise the guy a good bit. He said things like Watson was one of the most intelligent players he\'s ever been around. And that he had natural leadership qualities. But, Haslett didn\'t go overboard and I generally think Haslett speaks his mind. I need to stop it with saying Haslett has sold fans on certain players. Fans sell themselves!! What\'s Haslett suppose to say .. They suck? LOL
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-28-2005, 11:58 AM	#25
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	Courtney Watson Gumbo I had to chime in on this one. I think the key word that people are missing here is UPSIDE. Like it was mentioned earlier, he is just a rookie. I can\'t think of any MLBs that were noticeably impressive right out of the gate(I didn\'t see Ray Lewis in his rookie year). Intelligence is not that common an attribute in the NFL, and it makes the player much easier to work with, which is why Haslett speaks highly of him. The mental part of the game is the toughest to grasp. I don\'t see it as selling him necessarily, just saying what he personally feels. Than again Danny Wuerffel was an intelligent player too. This season will serve as a better barometer of Watson\'s potential and progress, I\'m sure.
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591

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02-28-2005, 01:23 PM	#26
turbo_dog 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,592	Courtney Watson MLB is NOT the most important position on defense by far. If it was, then why do most of the top MLB\'s in the draft last until the middle rounds to be selected. The SLB and WLB are both as important if not more than a MLB. In fact I\'d say the MLB is probably the least important of the 3 LB\'s n a 4-3. What are you talking about? Going back five years, to from the 1999 draft to last year\'s, there have been 9 MLBs chosen in the first round and only 5 OLBs. I believe they are all important, in fact I\'ve said many times that the LB corps as a whole is the most important unit on the field. I don\'t think you can make the argument that the OLB is soooo much more important than a MLB. Especially since your first point on the argument wasn\'t true, i.e. the draft positions.

02-28-2005, 01:31 PM	#27
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	Courtney Watson New Orleans Saints Depth Chart 1) OLB - Other than Courtney Watson in the middle they have little to write home about here 2) SS - Jay Bellamy can certainly be upgraded but otherwise the secondary is in decent shape 3) DT - It is not too early and we can definately write off Johnathan Sullivan as a bust 4) QB - Even if Aaron Brooks stays they need a youngster to develop 5) RB - The team still needs a top backup to their star runner Deuce McAllister this came from NFL countdown..and many other scouts also veiw watson as our only untouchable linebacker.
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

02-28-2005, 02:03 PM	#28
no_cloning 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 249	Courtney Watson What are you talking about? Going back five years, to from the 1999 draft to last year\'s, there have been 9 MLBs chosen in the first round and only 5 OLBs. All Danno was saying that MLB is NOT the most important position on defense, which Billy was at least implying. Haslett praising Watson: I mostly remember Haz making these statements about Watson right after the draft, which is completely normal. Watson\'s stats first 3-4 games: Watson appeared on some lists as one of the best rookies after the first 4 games. Most of us agreed that it was laughable (there\'s that word again) and the people making those lists didn\'t watch the games, but only looked at his stats. He was out of position often and generally didn\'t have good games - even with 11 tackles.
no_cloning 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 249

02-28-2005, 02:11 PM	#29
turbo_dog 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,592	Courtney Watson I know what he said, that is why I quoted it in my post and made the statement I was responding to bold.

02-28-2005, 02:12 PM	#30
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Courtney Watson All Danno was saying that MLB is NOT the most important position on defense, which Billy was at least implying. Haslett praising Watson: I mostly remember Haz making these statements about Watson right after the draft, which is completely normal. Watson\'s stats first 3-4 games: Watson appeared on some lists as one of the best rookies after the first 4 games. Most of us agreed that it was laughable (there\'s that word again) and the people making those lists didn\'t watch the games, but only looked at his stats. He was out of position often and generally didn\'t have good games - even with 11 tackles. Yes, I did imply that MLB position was one of the most important positions on the defense. Just to clarify, I do not think it\'s the most important position. I believe the front 4 are the most important positions on defense. With the DT being the most important and then the DE. After that I think it\'s MLB, OLB, and SLB. In that order. Then CB and safety. Getting back to Watson. I too think he was out of position far too often. I understand he was a rookie and all. And I understand rookies usually improve. The \"key\" word being \"usually\". So, I think MLB is the 5th most important spot of the defense. And have some serious doubts about Watson....
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616