What exactly is the logic behind drafting Treadwell?

SaintFanInATLHELL · 03-04-2016, 12:50 PM

I don't complain much here, but today I just feel the need.

I keep seeing posts about drafting Treadwell at 12. It feels like fantasy football thinking on at least a couple of levels. The first is simply the fact that there is no way the guy is going to be available in that slot.

But the second simply is that even if Treadwell were the next Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, or Calvin Johnson and he were available at 12, would that pick actually make any sense?

The Saints once again are at the top of every offensive statistical category including #1 in passing, #2 in total offense, and #8 in scoring. And once again the defense is at or near the bottom of absolutely everything. So unless Treadwell is going to rush the passer, cover tight ends, or going to be a pick magnet at safety, then what exactly is the sense in such a pick?

I understand the logic of "once in a generation" picks. But honestly, that position has been filled for the Saints by Drew Brees for the past 10 years. A perfect example of how Brees makes offensive skill players into superstars can be seen in the tight end position. Graham here: all world. Graham elsewhere: meh. Watson remaining: career year.

So I just want to understand why is not the discussion focused on identifying the once in a generation draft pick on the defensive side of the ball instead of pining for a player that both is unavailable and in the grand scheme is unneeded in the Saints current makeup? JJ Watt was drafted 11th. Luck Kuechly 9th. Von Miller pretty much won the SuperBowl by himself.

So who are the draftable players that can redefine a defense this year? And why are we not talking about them instead of Treadwell?

OK. Enough whining. Please discuss...

SFIAH

Danno · 03-04-2016, 01:05 PM

You draft for the future, not the present.
Brees has 2 or 3 years left.
Without Brees we'll need a lot more weapons than we currently have.
He could be a much higher rated prospect than any of the defenders left at 12.
This draft is deep with D-linemen. We can still draft some talented defenders from the 2nd round on.

Oh, and numerous folks are talking defense. DE's DT's OLB's, CB's. Its not like defense isn't being discussed.

|Mitch| · 03-04-2016, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

You draft for the future, not the present.
Brees has 2 or 3 years left.
Without Brees we'll need a lot more weapons than we currently have.
He could be a much higher rated prospect than any of the defenders left at 12.
This draft is deep with D-linemen. We can still draft some talented defenders from the 2nd round on.

Oh, and numerous folks are talking defense. DE's DT's OLB's, CB's. Its not like defense isn't being discussed.

I disagree; We are in win now mode with Drew only having a couple of seasons left. Build a defense so we can win now and will still take a lot of the pressure off a new QB in the future...

Danno · 03-04-2016, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by |Mitch|

I disagree; We are in win now mode with Drew only having a couple of seasons left. Build a defense so we can win now and will still take a lot of the pressure off a new QB in the future...

There are other ways to build a defense. It doesn't strictly depend on a 1st round pick.

If all the top guys are gone and LT slips, I can see drafting him.

And for the record I desperately want one of the top defenders as well, I'm just stating why it wouldn't be dumb to pick LT at 12.

There are probably 7 or 8 defenders I'd rather have than Treadwell.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 03-04-2016, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

You draft for the future, not the present.
Brees has 2 or 3 years left.

Brees as a once in a generation type guy deserves the opportunity to go out on top. It's clear that a defense is needed to accomplish that.

Without Brees we'll need a lot more weapons than we currently have.

There is no guarantee that Treadwell, or any other offensive skill player, can carry an offense without an elite QB.

He could be a much higher rated prospect than any of the defenders left at 12.

He certainly would. But does that really justify making a BPA pick, especially with the marked disparity between the offensive and defensive production of this team?

This draft is deep with D-linemen. We can still draft some talented defenders from the 2nd round on.

Talented is one thing. Impactful or elite is another. That's why I'm asking are there elite defensive players in this draft that should be the focus of discussion?

Oh, and numerous folks are talking defense. DE's DT's OLB's, CB's. Its not like defense isn't being discussed.

And yet thread after thread has pictures of #1 from Ole Miss with the caption "We need to get this guy."

Really? Do we?

SFIAH

Danno · 03-04-2016, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

And yet thread after thread has pictures of #1 from Ole Miss with the caption "We need to get this guy."

Really? Do we?

SFIAH

I'm not really seeing that. I saw a couple, but its not like every other thread has a Treadwell pic.

But I don't think its gonna be an issue. Like you said, he probably won't be there at 12, and even if he is there will probably still be a couple elite defenders left. It would take a near perfect storm for him to be the pick at 12.

WillSaints81 · 03-06-2016, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Brees as a once in a generation type guy deserves the opportunity to go out on top. It's clear that a defense is needed to accomplish that.

There is no guarantee that Treadwell, or any other offensive skill player, can carry an offense without an elite QB.

He certainly would. But does that really justify making a BPA pick, especially with the marked disparity between the offensive and defensive production of this team?

Talented is one thing. Impactful or elite is another. That's why I'm asking are there elite defensive players in this draft that should be the focus of discussion?

And yet thread after thread has pictures of #1 from Ole Miss with the caption "We need to get this guy."

Really? Do we?

SFIAH

What if Cooks gets hurt? Then what?

SaintFanInATLHELL · 03-07-2016, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by WillSaints81

What if Cooks gets hurt? Then what?

Next receiver up. Ask the same question: "What if Brees gets hurt?"

Are we going to spend 1st round pick on a QB because of that possibility?

I also want to spend a minute countering the argument that we cannot go into the season with Cooks, Snead, and Cooks as our top three receivers. Last year Cooks and Snead combined for nearly 2000 yards and 9 TDs. These are respectable numbers. Coleman contributed nearly another 500 yards and another 2 TDs.

I admit the open question is whether or not Coleman can pick up the slack left by Colston last year (45 catches, 520 yards, 4 TD).. But if those numbers are distributed between the receivers and the TE position (Watson's career 69 catches, 984 yards, and 3 TDs) Then there's no reason to think that the Saints traditional passing game isn't going to be productive.

Finally let us not forget that the most prolific and productive receivers the Saints has ever had was a 7th round pick 10 years ago. Also the Saints spent a #1 pick at WR just two years ago.

The only offensive position the Saints should consider spending a high draft pick on is guard. And even the highest rated guards in this draft have mid-2nd to 3rd round grades.

SFIAH

WillSaints81 · 03-07-2016, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Next receiver up. Ask the same question: "What if Brees gets hurt?"

Are we going to spend 1st round pick on a QB because of that possibility?

I also want to spend a minute countering the argument that we cannot go into the season with Cooks, Snead, and Cooks as our top three receivers. Last year Cooks and Snead combined for nearly 2000 yards and 9 TDs. These are respectable numbers. Coleman contributed nearly another 500 yards and another 2 TDs.

I admit the open question is whether or not Coleman can pick up the slack left by Colston last year (45 catches, 520 yards, 4 TD).. But if those numbers are distributed between the receivers and the TE position (Watson's career 69 catches, 984 yards, and 3 TDs) Then there's no reason to think that the Saints traditional passing game isn't going to be productive.

Finally let us not forget that the most prolific and productive receivers the Saints has ever had was a 7th round pick 10 years ago. Also the Saints spent a #1 pick at WR just two years ago.

The only offensive position the Saints should consider spending a high draft pick on is guard. And even the highest rated guards in this draft have mid-2nd to 3rd round grades.

SFIAH

You can't guarantee the offense can be as good if Cooks gets hurt. Because we sucked when Cooks went down in 14. I mean our oline was a problem all year long but that was the point where we really began to have even more problems. And this has not much to do with Colston, really. He wasn't getting enough snaps and targets to make an impact. But as someone said we don't improve defense at the expense of why Sean is here. Close games are not won by the same team every week and there is no defense for a perfect catch. We are not gonna stop Aaron Rodgers from making those last minute TD passes more than Arizona and Detroit did, who allowed one each last year. I don't want close games because of things like that. The thing is keep working on repairing the offense and plug some defensive holes each year.

And honestly scoring a lot of points last year in those games did not look easy, it had to be an effort because two of the games came off adjustments and not being able to score at will against the titans than the jets last year is a serious problem. Guards will help but by how much.

Either way we know SP is looking into the receiving anyway given the source report about M Thomas.

FinSaint · 03-04-2016, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

You draft for the future, not the present.

This can't be emphasized enough.

Although, a high 1st rounder should in most cases be able to contribute immediately.

03-04-2016, 12:50 PM	#1
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,781	What exactly is the logic behind drafting Treadwell? I don't complain much here, but today I just feel the need. I keep seeing posts about drafting Treadwell at 12. It feels like fantasy football thinking on at least a couple of levels. The first is simply the fact that there is no way the guy is going to be available in that slot. But the second simply is that even if Treadwell were the next Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, or Calvin Johnson and he were available at 12, would that pick actually make any sense? The Saints once again are at the top of every offensive statistical category including #1 in passing, #2 in total offense, and #8 in scoring. And once again the defense is at or near the bottom of absolutely everything. So unless Treadwell is going to rush the passer, cover tight ends, or going to be a pick magnet at safety, then what exactly is the sense in such a pick? I understand the logic of "once in a generation" picks. But honestly, that position has been filled for the Saints by Drew Brees for the past 10 years. A perfect example of how Brees makes offensive skill players into superstars can be seen in the tight end position. Graham here: all world. Graham elsewhere: meh. Watson remaining: career year. So I just want to understand why is not the discussion focused on identifying the once in a generation draft pick on the defensive side of the ball instead of pining for a player that both is unavailable and in the grand scheme is unneeded in the Saints current makeup? JJ Watt was drafted 11th. Luck Kuechly 9th. Von Miller pretty much won the SuperBowl by himself. So who are the draftable players that can redefine a defense this year? And why are we not talking about them instead of Treadwell? OK. Enough whining. Please discuss... SFIAH jnormand, hagan714, Barry from MS and 3 others like this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

03-04-2016, 01:10 PM	#3
\|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303	Re: What exactly is the logic behind drafting Treadwell? Originally Posted by Danno You draft for the future, not the present. Brees has 2 or 3 years left. Without Brees we'll need a lot more weapons than we currently have. He could be a much higher rated prospect than any of the defenders left at 12. This draft is deep with D-linemen. We can still draft some talented defenders from the 2nd round on. Oh, and numerous folks are talking defense. DE's DT's OLB's, CB's. Its not like defense isn't being discussed. I disagree; We are in win now mode with Drew only having a couple of seasons left. Build a defense so we can win now and will still take a lot of the pressure off a new QB in the future... SaintFanInATLHELL and RaginCajun83 like this.

03-04-2016, 01:15 PM	#4
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,747	Re: What exactly is the logic behind drafting Treadwell? Originally Posted by \|Mitch\| I disagree; We are in win now mode with Drew only having a couple of seasons left. Build a defense so we can win now and will still take a lot of the pressure off a new QB in the future... There are other ways to build a defense. It doesn't strictly depend on a 1st round pick. If all the top guys are gone and LT slips, I can see drafting him. And for the record I desperately want one of the top defenders as well, I'm just stating why it wouldn't be dumb to pick LT at 12. There are probably 7 or 8 defenders I'd rather have than Treadwell.

03-04-2016, 01:21 PM	#5
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,781	Re: What exactly is the logic behind drafting Treadwell? Originally Posted by Danno You draft for the future, not the present. Brees has 2 or 3 years left. Brees as a once in a generation type guy deserves the opportunity to go out on top. It's clear that a defense is needed to accomplish that. Without Brees we'll need a lot more weapons than we currently have. There is no guarantee that Treadwell, or any other offensive skill player, can carry an offense without an elite QB. He could be a much higher rated prospect than any of the defenders left at 12. He certainly would. But does that really justify making a BPA pick, especially with the marked disparity between the offensive and defensive production of this team? This draft is deep with D-linemen. We can still draft some talented defenders from the 2nd round on. Talented is one thing. Impactful or elite is another. That's why I'm asking are there elite defensive players in this draft that should be the focus of discussion? Oh, and numerous folks are talking defense. DE's DT's OLB's, CB's. Its not like defense isn't being discussed. And yet thread after thread has pictures of #1 from Ole Miss with the caption "We need to get this guy." Really? Do we? SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

03-04-2016, 01:35 PM	#6
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,747	Re: What exactly is the logic behind drafting Treadwell? Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL And yet thread after thread has pictures of #1 from Ole Miss with the caption "We need to get this guy." Really? Do we? SFIAH I'm not really seeing that. I saw a couple, but its not like every other thread has a Treadwell pic. But I don't think its gonna be an issue. Like you said, he probably won't be there at 12, and even if he is there will probably still be a couple elite defenders left. It would take a near perfect storm for him to be the pick at 12.

03-04-2016, 01:05 PM	#2
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,747	Re: What exactly is the logic behind drafting Treadwell? You draft for the future, not the present. Brees has 2 or 3 years left. Without Brees we'll need a lot more weapons than we currently have. He could be a much higher rated prospect than any of the defenders left at 12. This draft is deep with D-linemen. We can still draft some talented defenders from the 2nd round on. Oh, and numerous folks are talking defense. DE's DT's OLB's, CB's. Its not like defense isn't being discussed.

03-06-2016, 08:26 PM	#7
WillSaints81 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,267	Re: What exactly is the logic behind drafting Treadwell? Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Brees as a once in a generation type guy deserves the opportunity to go out on top. It's clear that a defense is needed to accomplish that. There is no guarantee that Treadwell, or any other offensive skill player, can carry an offense without an elite QB. He certainly would. But does that really justify making a BPA pick, especially with the marked disparity between the offensive and defensive production of this team? Talented is one thing. Impactful or elite is another. That's why I'm asking are there elite defensive players in this draft that should be the focus of discussion? And yet thread after thread has pictures of #1 from Ole Miss with the caption "We need to get this guy." Really? Do we? SFIAH What if Cooks gets hurt? Then what?

03-07-2016, 09:36 AM	#8
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,781	Re: What exactly is the logic behind drafting Treadwell? Originally Posted by WillSaints81 What if Cooks gets hurt? Then what? Next receiver up. Ask the same question: "What if Brees gets hurt?" Are we going to spend 1st round pick on a QB because of that possibility? I also want to spend a minute countering the argument that we cannot go into the season with Cooks, Snead, and Cooks as our top three receivers. Last year Cooks and Snead combined for nearly 2000 yards and 9 TDs. These are respectable numbers. Coleman contributed nearly another 500 yards and another 2 TDs. I admit the open question is whether or not Coleman can pick up the slack left by Colston last year (45 catches, 520 yards, 4 TD).. But if those numbers are distributed between the receivers and the TE position (Watson's career 69 catches, 984 yards, and 3 TDs) Then there's no reason to think that the Saints traditional passing game isn't going to be productive. Finally let us not forget that the most prolific and productive receivers the Saints has ever had was a 7th round pick 10 years ago. Also the Saints spent a #1 pick at WR just two years ago. The only offensive position the Saints should consider spending a high draft pick on is guard. And even the highest rated guards in this draft have mid-2nd to 3rd round grades. SFIAH hagan714 likes this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

03-07-2016, 07:39 PM	#9
WillSaints81 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,267	Re: What exactly is the logic behind drafting Treadwell? Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Next receiver up. Ask the same question: "What if Brees gets hurt?" Are we going to spend 1st round pick on a QB because of that possibility? I also want to spend a minute countering the argument that we cannot go into the season with Cooks, Snead, and Cooks as our top three receivers. Last year Cooks and Snead combined for nearly 2000 yards and 9 TDs. These are respectable numbers. Coleman contributed nearly another 500 yards and another 2 TDs. I admit the open question is whether or not Coleman can pick up the slack left by Colston last year (45 catches, 520 yards, 4 TD).. But if those numbers are distributed between the receivers and the TE position (Watson's career 69 catches, 984 yards, and 3 TDs) Then there's no reason to think that the Saints traditional passing game isn't going to be productive. Finally let us not forget that the most prolific and productive receivers the Saints has ever had was a 7th round pick 10 years ago. Also the Saints spent a #1 pick at WR just two years ago. The only offensive position the Saints should consider spending a high draft pick on is guard. And even the highest rated guards in this draft have mid-2nd to 3rd round grades. SFIAH You can't guarantee the offense can be as good if Cooks gets hurt. Because we sucked when Cooks went down in 14. I mean our oline was a problem all year long but that was the point where we really began to have even more problems. And this has not much to do with Colston, really. He wasn't getting enough snaps and targets to make an impact. But as someone said we don't improve defense at the expense of why Sean is here. Close games are not won by the same team every week and there is no defense for a perfect catch. We are not gonna stop Aaron Rodgers from making those last minute TD passes more than Arizona and Detroit did, who allowed one each last year. I don't want close games because of things like that. The thing is keep working on repairing the offense and plug some defensive holes each year. And honestly scoring a lot of points last year in those games did not look easy, it had to be an effort because two of the games came off adjustments and not being able to score at will against the titans than the jets last year is a serious problem. Guards will help but by how much. Either way we know SP is looking into the receiving anyway given the source report about M Thomas.

03-04-2016, 04:57 PM	#10
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Re: What exactly is the logic behind drafting Treadwell? Originally Posted by Danno You draft for the future, not the present. This can't be emphasized enough. Although, a high 1st rounder should in most cases be able to contribute immediately.

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