I agree with you in theory, but probably not on the definition of "conditions", #shrug. This is every day in Detroit ... two guys (or a gal) got beef, one goes gets a gun and shoots up the place ... kids parties, family gatherings, at the mall, at the gas station, at the party store, on the block, in the house, while driving or just sitting in a car ... doesn't matter. The only reason this makes the news is because an NFL player is involved, and that condition has to change.

88% or more of young, Black men homicides are committed by other Black men ... that's the condition that has to change, IMO, that and the condition where we glorify "thug life" and perpetuate a culture of violence, that and the denial that this is purely a societal issue and also not a cultural one, #shrug. Everybody got to be an OG, #smh.

One guy was driving a Hummer, one guy a Mercedes ... I don't think poverty's necessarily a contributing condition in this situation. Both these guys had an education (Smith just completed his MBA?) ... I don't think you can pin it on lack of educational opportunities. Both guys were employed playing football, so it's not a lack of employment opportunities. If anything, I'd say both these guys took advantage of the opportunities afforded them and could reasonably be considered success stories, #shrug. The fact the shooter called 911, remained on the scene, had a registered firearm also speaks volumes, this guy wasn't the product of poor upbringing or social issues ... "lack of playgrounds" or whatever condition-of-the-week is going around wasn't the root cause behind this shooting, IMO.

I can't tell you how much I hate this shiot, reading about it, seeing it on the news every night ... it's just senseless, .

My heart and my sincerest condolences go out to Saints Nation and all families involved, .

I don't want to speak for rez, as I don't know exactly what conditions he's referring to, but when I think of "conditions" I see that as a broad term for any number of possibilities.

The guy who shot Will has SOMETHING wrong with him. It doesn't have to be poverty or upbringing, necessarily.

But in his case, I think you can make a strong case for his upbringing. True, he had money and perhaps a good education. But his dad was shot and killed after attacking a police officer. So he had THAT kind of parent for an example. It also just so happens that Will was friends with the cop who shot his dad. So it's highly unlikely this murder was a random thing. It's not a good reason, because Will didn't have anything to do with it, but you can bet this guy wants as many people associated with that cop to be dead.

Some people are "conditioned" to hate others. That's what leads to violence. And how do we cure that? We're not God, so all we can do is try to set a good example for those around us. We can't control what others will do. But some people have it in their minds that we can do just that, by taking away their guns, as if the gun is inherently evil. Bugs the crap out of me.

Well, I'm just referring to the standard social conditions that are typically thrown out there to minimize/transfer personal responsibility in situations like this, ie poverty, lack of educational opportunities, lack of employment opportunities, discrimination, racism, et ... they don't apply in this situation, IMO, and I think that's one of the problems in reconciling this stuff ... we don't look at these situations individually, like we should, and instead make broad, sweeping assumptions, attempting to speak to larger social issues that may or may not bear responsibility. I have no problem giving the above listed conditions an "assist" in most cases, just not this one, #shrug.



This isn't going to be popular, but I don't think the shooter has anything wrong with him. Just the way he handled himself in that situation, ie call 911, remain on scene, seek out witnesses, et ... shows that, IMO. I guarantee you Smith didn't get out of his vehicle asking to exchange license/registration and at some point, made a credible threat that went beyond smack. This is my opinion ... Smith, the former pro football player, told Hayes he was gonna' kick his ass, Hayes said, "I got a gun", Smith said, "I got one too" and the shots in the back were the result of Hayes fearing for his life (whether that's credible or not remains to be seen) and figured he had to get Smith before Smith got him. That's how this shiot escalates, to the point where one party thinks they have justification to apply deadly force.



IDK the parent or the incident, so I can't comment on his upbringing other than how his (Hayes) actions are not consistent with your average hood rat or someone who had bad parenting. I do honestly think it was the result of road rage, anger management, being a hard ass, et ... I tell ya', from personal experience and seeing these types of situations constantly, people are angry, angry, angry and this stuff escalates to this level far too often.



So Hayes was conditioned to hate Smith because of his relationship with Billy Ceravolo? I can understand at how having your Dad shot by police would harden or condition you to hate (sort of like a PTSD), but if he's got an ongoing lawsuit against the police, it doesn't make sense he's gonna' go out and start eliminating people on his hate list, jeopardizing his case ... and I don't think there's enough of a connection between Smith and Ceravolo that would make this guy target Smith. I honestly think it started with the hit and run and escalated from there.

I'm not justifying Hayes' action, I've just seen this play out so many times and the end result is always the same ... and it's not always an adult that winds up shot. It's a flagrant disregard for the sanctity of life and I'm not going to point to or blame societal issues every instance. There's plenty of poor people, with basic educations and in poor situations, that don't blow people away or threaten an individual when in a confrontation, so why is it with young, Black men? IDK.

I agree with you in theory, but probably not on the definition of "conditions", #shrug. This is every day in Detroit ... two guys (or a gal) got beef, one goes gets a gun and shoots up the place ... kids parties, family gatherings, at the mall, at the gas station, at the party store, on the block, in the house, while driving or just sitting in a car ... doesn't matter. The only reason this makes the news is because an NFL player is involved, and that condition has to change.

88% or more of young, Black men homicides are committed by other Black men ... that's the condition that has to change, IMO, that and the condition where we glorify "thug life" and perpetuate a culture of violence, that and the denial that this is purely a societal issue and also not a cultural one, #shrug. Everybody got to be an OG, #smh.

One guy was driving a Hummer, one guy a Mercedes ... I don't think poverty's necessarily a contributing condition in this situation. Both these guys had an education (Smith just completed his MBA?) ... I don't think you can pin it on lack of educational opportunities. Both guys were employed playing football, so it's not a lack of employment opportunities. If anything, I'd say both these guys took advantage of the opportunities afforded them and could reasonably be considered success stories, #shrug. The fact the shooter called 911, remained on the scene, had a registered firearm also speaks volumes, this guy wasn't the product of poor upbringing or social issues ... "lack of playgrounds" or whatever condition-of-the-week is going around wasn't the root cause behind this shooting, IMO.

I can't tell you how much I hate this shiot, reading about it, seeing it on the news every night ... it's just senseless, .

My heart and my sincerest condolences go out to Saints Nation and all families involved, .

I understand your premise in this individual incident, but poverty, poor education, and societal dismissal go hand in hand with poverty globally. That's way before we even start the conversation on systematic racism and PTSD as well as other mental health issues young, Black people don't get quality care for. I just wrote a discussion for school about the lack of mental health care for minorities, with an emphasis on African Americans. The Black Middle Class, although I'd argue there's really no such thing, has crime rates not much different from their counterparts. America created ghettos with red lining, zoning laws, and housing discrimination. They got the idea from Hitler and didn't even bother to change the name. So at the end of the day, the heart of the problem is socioeconomic. Playing 400 year catch up isn't easy. To be honest, we never will. As far as this incident in particular is concerned, it's like John Lennon getting shot and killed. It just happened, and it's unfortunate.

Also, all homicides are overwhelmingly intraracial. I agree with you when it comes to the lack of "care" shown by our country in war zones like Detroit and Chicago. It shouldn't take a football player to draw attention to the help that's needed across the country. This has become my greatest passion. I go over statistics and socioeconomic studies all day. I watch professors, doctors, activists, and politicians give insight and solutions or lack thereof. I read the historical events and legislature, as well as the current events and legislature. I really, really care. I was blessed. I had both parents. They gave me a great foundation. I don't have to be worried about where I started and the people still stuck there, but I am. I'll have my bachelor's in Healthcare Administration and Education in August. I'm going right back for my Master's. I want to open up clinics, and one day hospitals in these impoverished areas. I want to target those children and guide them into Healthcare fields where they can come work for me. I want to save the culture, because I know nobody else will.

I knew this was gonna get stupid.

Wait, did I just read you can get PTSD by being a young black male? Please for the love of God don't go there. As a military vet and a LEO I find that more offensive than anything I have ever read on here. PTSD is not a STD or the FLU. A ton of military vets who come home after being shot at everyday should not be in the same boat as someone growing up on the south side.

"It seems to have worked for the UK; just sayin'"