saintswhodi

Um, that is until they actually get someone better right? Which is more than possible IMO. I\'d trade Joe right now to Minny with another pick to get pick # 7 and take Mike Williams. Absolute beast who will have more than 2 or 3 possible years to help this team. You would think Joe Horn took us to the Superbowl or something. Or the playoffs. Or anyone on this team has. What makes anyone on this team indispensible? ADD to that the fact he has DEMANDED top 5 money, see ya Joe. Don\'t let the door hit ya. Can anyone tell me where Rickey Jackson finished his career, Swilling, Mills, Vaughan Johnson, Willie Roaf, Archie? The greatest players in team history haven\'t finished their careers in NO, what makes Joe so special?

GoldenTomb

I know we, being Saints fans, have plenty to gripe about. However I am not too concerned with Joe Horn\'s production right now. I would much rather see us take a LB, DT, or even OT before we\'d think about trading up to get a WR. Yeah he has about 2 or 3 good years left, and that gives us enough time to address our other positions of need before Joe retires or is cut. There are many many good WRs coming out in the next 2 to 3 years(Craphonso Thorpe, Steve Smith, Xavier Carter) to worry about getting a new starting WR just yet.

Now if Mike Williams was to fall to 16, I don\'t see how you pass him up.

yasoon

I\'m not going to say that Horn is without flaws. The cell phone thing following the TB drop the week before made me really mad. It seemed like it was more about Joe than letting the team down with a crucial drop.
I don\'t know that he is top 5...but I would say that he\'s easily in the top 10. He has been our go to reciever and has made AB look alot better. I like Horn and would like to see him here for a couple of more years. Plus, he said he wants to retire in my hometown (Hattiesburg). I gotta like that.

One thing that people heve left out in this thread is Horn\'s toughness. I can tolerate some of his BS simply because he always peels himself off the turf and makes another play. There are plenty of bigtime guys who lack toughness.

A couple of dumb things were said in this thread.

Gumbo, you amaze me. Horn is not a big play receiver? Did you see the game clincher against Dallas? Killer grab. What about the long one against Carolina? That was the only time I saw Brooks hit him in stride all year. One of the things that you must bear in mind when talking about YAC is the QB\'s ability to set a receiver up to run. Your boy Brooks hasn\'t figured that one out yet. Between throwing into triple coverage, over people\'s heads and behind the receivers, there\'s not much room for YAC. It\' s enough to just catch some of those balls. When do you see YAC on this team? On screens to Donte if he happens to beat the corner, that\'s about it.

Also, this quote is awesome:

Food for what thought? That Ricky got us to the playoffs? What are you talking about? Are you really using Ricky as a reason that we got to the postseason? Did you see what Deuce did in what we thought was our playin game? That 72 yarder must have gotten past you. You are bringing up one of the few things that this team has gotten right in the last five years. (Ditching Ricky for deuce.) Deuce had a bad year for him, I know. But, this o line was terrible in the running game this year. There were several times where Duece got hit right as the ball got there. He came back sooner than expected and gutted out 1000 yards.
Since everybody is bringing up history and age, look at Deuce\'s age. The next couple of years will be his best in the league, barring serious injury.
You take Ricky, I\'ll take Duece. I can\'t believe you would even bring him up in this context. He\'s out ditching his kids \"finding himself\" and letting his team mates down. Go grab yourself a jersey on ebay, buddy. I think they\'re going pretty cheap.

saintswhodi

The problem is, we don\'t have Joe signed for 2 or 3 more years, we have him signed for one. So if he doesn\'t get his top 5 deal, he could play out this year and sign elsewhere next year. or force us to franchise him. Trade him now before that happens. How does that prevent us from getting a LB or DT or OT in the draft I don\'t know. You would be trading Joe for a replacement FOR JOE, not simply trading up to draft a WR.

GoldenTomb

The idea is good in theory, except that they aren\'t going to trade Joe at all.

The thing is other teams know how old he is as well. He won\'t attract much in a trade offer, certainly not the value that the Saints would be seeking.

I think either one of two things will happen.

1. He\'ll have an off year and resign with the Saints for less or

2. He\'ll have a typical Joe Horn year, test the free agent market, get lowballed by all interested teams and sign with someone else just to save face.

Just think...if a physical specimen like Plaxico Burress can\'t sign with someone, Horn must know that he won\'t get top 5 money on the open market, so he\'s trying to get it here. You can\'t get mad at him for trying.

saintswhodi

I am not mad at him for trying, I am mad cause people think we should pay him a big contract. 49ers let Montana roll when he got too old, but we should keep Joe Horn. Pats cut Milloy but we should keep Joe Horn. Troy Brown played both sides of the ball for the Pats and gave up incentives he would have earned as a receiver to do so, Pats cut him, but we should keep Joe Horn. It\'s like this is Madden football on PS2 or something where you can cheat the game and keep all the players you want, and they play at a high level until they are 40 and then just retire. Doesn\'t happen in real life.

Also, I don\'t trust the Joe will play out this year theory. I don\'t trust Joe not to hold out knowing this is his last shot at a big payday, and knowing all the talks he has had about his contract recently. I guess that\'s why I am so skeptical. I don\'t trust Joe not to try and screw the team over. He has played injured previously but if he gets hurt this year without a new contract, this could be it. I don\'t trust Joe not to see that and make a stink if he doesn\'t have a new contract. I guess some do. Not me. NFL players are selfish, and they have every right to be, and teams have every right to protect themselves from that. I would trade Joe and get his replacement right now, Minnesota just seemed like the obvious choice. But the same people who wanna keep Joe wanna keep Howard AND have us with money to sign draft picks. I wanna see how well that all works.

[Edited on 15/3/2005 by saintswhodi]

GoldenTomb

Well I think Joe will play this year out. It works to his disadvantage if he holds out, because of his age. The best thing he could do for himself is to have another pro bowl year.

Like I said...if we have a chance to get Mike Williams without giving too much up or if he falls to us I say go for it.

saintswhodi

I would believe that, except Keenan McCardell held out on the Bucs last year, and he is older than Joe and not as good. He held out til he was traded. I don\'t want Joe to put us in the same boat.

WhoDat

Hey - why don\'t we just sign A. Smith at RB and Jurevicus at WR and get rid of Horn and Deuce? After all, Horn wants to be a Falcon and I have it on good authority that Deuce is a bunny-killing Communist. :casstet:

Man, it\'s really a shame that we as Saints fans will have to put up with Deuce and Horn next season. Won\'t that be frustrating for all of you guys to watch them both go to the Pro Bowl again? That sucks.

[Edited on 15/3/2005 by WhoDat]

saintswhodi

Someone mentioned Deuce in this JOE HORN thread? Diversion tactic perhaps? Hey if you don\'t mind seeing Horn leave, you must wanna see Deuce leave too. Never mind the fact your main grievance with paying Horn is it will cause problems in getting a long term contract done FOR DEUCE. Nice try.

And Deuce went to the pro bowl last year? Must\'ve missed him and Howard. :P