We're not going to be a first ranked defense anytime soon

halloween 65 · 12-22-2016, 07:07 PM

I said early in the season a 25th ranked D wouldn't get us a sniff in the playoffs. In 2009 we had a real DC who could make chicken salad with chicken poop. Allen has improved the D to 26th with the last 2 drafts being D heavy and brought in vet FA to fill certain spots. Allen has his D in place for 1 1/2 years not just this season I hate to keep saying this but he's really not that good of a DC to begin with and having the players he has now is the only reason we're at 26th now. I hope somehow someway we get a real DC to get this D turned around because Allen surely isn't the answer to getting us back in contention.

AsylumGuido · 12-23-2016, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

I said early in the season a 25th ranked D wouldn't get us a sniff in the playoffs. In 2009 we had a real DC who could make chicken salad with chicken poop. Allen has improved the D to 26th with the last 2 drafts being D heavy and brought in vet FA to fill certain spots. Allen has his D in place for 1 1/2 years not just this season I hate to keep saying this but he's really not that good of a DC to begin with and having the players he has now is the only reason we're at 26th now. I hope somehow someway we get a real DC to get this D turned around because Allen surely isn't the answer to getting us back in contention.

Allen's D is not in place. It is on the IR.

halloween 65 · 12-23-2016, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Allen's D is not in place. It is on the IR.

Oh yes it is.. You can say IR or make any excuse you want but its his d

AsylumGuido · 12-23-2016, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

Oh yes it is.. You can say IR or make any excuse you want but its his d

Excuses and reasons are often confused. Losing one player can have a detrimental affect on a defense. Losing two or three would have even a greater affect. When you see the following it can have a devastating affect.

RESERVE/INJURED

FS 33 - Jamarca Sanford
CB 24 - Kyle Wilson
DE 77 - D.J. Pettway
CB 43 - Jimmy Pruitt
DB 27 - Damian Swann
CB 25 - P.J. Williams
DE 58 - Obum Gwacham
DB 30 - Erik Harris

RESERVE/PHYSICALLY UNABLE TO PERFORM

LB 44 - Hau'oli Kikaha

RESERVE/NON-FOOTBALL INJURY

DE 76 - Mitchell Loewen
LB 56 - Mike Mauti

And that doesn't include all of the defensive players that have missed significant time due to injury, yet are still on the active roster. Yet, even with all of that, the defense is still better than each of the past two seasons.

halloween 65 · 12-23-2016, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Excuses and reasons are often confused. Losing one player can have a detrimental affect on a defense. Losing two or three would have even a greater affect. When you see the following it can have a devastating affect.

RESERVE/INJURED

FS 33 - Jamarca Sanford
CB 24 - Kyle Wilson
DE 77 - D.J. Pettway
CB 43 - Jimmy Pruitt
DB 27 - Damian Swann
CB 25 - P.J. Williams
DE 58 - Obum Gwacham
DB 30 - Erik Harris

RESERVE/PHYSICALLY UNABLE TO PERFORM

LB 44 - Hau'oli Kikaha

RESERVE/NON-FOOTBALL INJURY

DE 76 - Mitchell Loewen
LB 56 - Mike Mauti

And that doesn't include all of the defensive players that have missed significant time due to injury, yet are still on the active roster. Yet, even with all of that, the defense is still better than each of the past two seasons.

Excuses and reasons are often confused but there is also the word denial. I think thats what some fans here do, denial. We haven't had a real D in the Payton era and only Williams made it work, the clowns we have as D coaches have NO TEAM INTERESTED IN THEM IN THE LEAST. Allen was a one hit wonder the 2009 season and if it wasn't for Sharper he wouldn't have gotten a sniff from another team then. If you think he's the answer the word denial might be lurking. Payton brought hif flunkie back out of pity because it wasn't from being a good DC. I would have been laughing if it wasn't my Saints being manhandled by Detroit when your boy Allen was going to put his stamp on the game and blitz Stafford to show how Stafford Allen was the man on I believe a 3rd and 17, I know what Stafford showed Allen 7 points. Denial is not a good thing. Oh by the way on that list all very unproven players.

Danno · 12-23-2016, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Allen's D is not in place. It is on the IR.

Keenan Lewis
Delvin Breaux
PJ Williams
Damien Swann
Kyle Wilson
Danelle Ellerbe
Sheldon Rankins
Jamarca Sanford
Erik Harris
Oben Gwatchum
Hau'oli Kikaha
Michael Mauti

All missed significant playing time. You could begin building a pretty decent defense with just that list of players.

halloween 65 · 12-23-2016, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Keenan Lewis
Delvin Breaux
PJ Williams
Damien Swann
Kyle Wilson
Danelle Ellerbe
Sheldon Rankins
Jamarca Sanford
Erik Harris
Oben Gwatchum
Hau'oli Kikaha
Michael Mauti

All missed significant playing time. You could begin building a pretty decent defense with just that list of players.

With what? I love Ellerbe but he's always hurt. The rookies? Remains to be proven although I do think Rankins and Harris. Lewis hasn't stayed healthy and Breaux regressed? Williams can't stay on the field for long and Kiki I might never get to know. I ask again with what? The IR team?

Danno · 12-23-2016, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

With what? I love Ellerbe but he's always hurt. The rookies? Remains to be proven although I do think Rankins and Harris. Lewis hasn't stayed healthy and Breaux regressed? Williams can't stay on the field for long and Kiki I might never get to know. I ask again with what? The IR team?

So you've bashed all these guys, who were some of our top guys entering the season, yet say Dennis Allen isn't getting it done?
Sounds to me like, according to you, Dennis Allen is making Chicken Salad out of Chicken ****!

halloween 65 · 12-23-2016, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

So you've bashed all these guys, who were some of our top guys entering the season, yet say Dennis Allen isn't getting it done?
Sounds to me like, according to you, Dennis Allen is making Chicken Salad out of Chicken ****!

I'm not in denial, this D isn't that good, chicken salad or not. I am a Saints fan always have been but it don't mean I got to like the direction it's gone. You can call it bashing I call it telling the truth.

Danno · 12-23-2016, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

I'm not in denial, this D isn't that good, chicken salad or not. I am a Saints fan always have been but it don't mean I got to like the direction it's gone. You can call it bashing I call it telling the truth.

So is Dennis Allen doing well with sub-par talent,
Or is this defense talented but he's just not getting it done?

This defense isn't good, but most of our top guys missed significant playing time.

For Dennis Allen to coach a bunch of street free agents to a defense ranked in the mid 20's is outstanding to me.

Imagine what he could do with some talent.

12-22-2016, 07:07 PM	#1
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: We're not going to be a first ranked defense anytime soon I said early in the season a 25th ranked D wouldn't get us a sniff in the playoffs. In 2009 we had a real DC who could make chicken salad with chicken poop. Allen has improved the D to 26th with the last 2 drafts being D heavy and brought in vet FA to fill certain spots. Allen has his D in place for 1 1/2 years not just this season I hate to keep saying this but he's really not that good of a DC to begin with and having the players he has now is the only reason we're at 26th now. I hope somehow someway we get a real DC to get this D turned around because Allen surely isn't the answer to getting us back in contention.

12-23-2016, 12:38 PM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,853	Re: We're not going to be a first ranked defense anytime soon Originally Posted by halloween 65 I said early in the season a 25th ranked D wouldn't get us a sniff in the playoffs. In 2009 we had a real DC who could make chicken salad with chicken poop. Allen has improved the D to 26th with the last 2 drafts being D heavy and brought in vet FA to fill certain spots. Allen has his D in place for 1 1/2 years not just this season I hate to keep saying this but he's really not that good of a DC to begin with and having the players he has now is the only reason we're at 26th now. I hope somehow someway we get a real DC to get this D turned around because Allen surely isn't the answer to getting us back in contention. Allen's D is not in place. It is on the IR. jnormand, Danno and RockyMountainSaint like this.

12-23-2016, 12:55 PM	#3
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: We're not going to be a first ranked defense anytime soon Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Allen's D is not in place. It is on the IR. Oh yes it is.. You can say IR or make any excuse you want but its his d

12-23-2016, 01:17 PM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,853	Re: We're not going to be a first ranked defense anytime soon Originally Posted by halloween 65 Oh yes it is.. You can say IR or make any excuse you want but its his d Excuses and reasons are often confused. Losing one player can have a detrimental affect on a defense. Losing two or three would have even a greater affect. When you see the following it can have a devastating affect. RESERVE/INJURED FS 33 - Jamarca Sanford CB 24 - Kyle Wilson DE 77 - D.J. Pettway CB 43 - Jimmy Pruitt DB 27 - Damian Swann CB 25 - P.J. Williams DE 58 - Obum Gwacham DB 30 - Erik Harris RESERVE/PHYSICALLY UNABLE TO PERFORM LB 44 - Hau'oli Kikaha RESERVE/NON-FOOTBALL INJURY DE 76 - Mitchell Loewen LB 56 - Mike Mauti And that doesn't include all of the defensive players that have missed significant time due to injury, yet are still on the active roster. Yet, even with all of that, the defense is still better than each of the past two seasons. Danno, RockyMountainSaint, hagan714 and 3 others like this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

12-23-2016, 04:14 PM	#5
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: We're not going to be a first ranked defense anytime soon Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Excuses and reasons are often confused. Losing one player can have a detrimental affect on a defense. Losing two or three would have even a greater affect. When you see the following it can have a devastating affect. RESERVE/INJURED FS 33 - Jamarca Sanford CB 24 - Kyle Wilson DE 77 - D.J. Pettway CB 43 - Jimmy Pruitt DB 27 - Damian Swann CB 25 - P.J. Williams DE 58 - Obum Gwacham DB 30 - Erik Harris RESERVE/PHYSICALLY UNABLE TO PERFORM LB 44 - Hau'oli Kikaha RESERVE/NON-FOOTBALL INJURY DE 76 - Mitchell Loewen LB 56 - Mike Mauti And that doesn't include all of the defensive players that have missed significant time due to injury, yet are still on the active roster. Yet, even with all of that, the defense is still better than each of the past two seasons. Excuses and reasons are often confused but there is also the word denial. I think thats what some fans here do, denial. We haven't had a real D in the Payton era and only Williams made it work, the clowns we have as D coaches have NO TEAM INTERESTED IN THEM IN THE LEAST. Allen was a one hit wonder the 2009 season and if it wasn't for Sharper he wouldn't have gotten a sniff from another team then. If you think he's the answer the word denial might be lurking. Payton brought hif flunkie back out of pity because it wasn't from being a good DC. I would have been laughing if it wasn't my Saints being manhandled by Detroit when your boy Allen was going to put his stamp on the game and blitz Stafford to show how Stafford Allen was the man on I believe a 3rd and 17, I know what Stafford showed Allen 7 points. Denial is not a good thing. Oh by the way on that list all very unproven players.

12-23-2016, 01:19 PM	#6
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Re: We're not going to be a first ranked defense anytime soon Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Allen's D is not in place. It is on the IR. Keenan Lewis Delvin Breaux PJ Williams Damien Swann Kyle Wilson Danelle Ellerbe Sheldon Rankins Jamarca Sanford Erik Harris Oben Gwatchum Hau'oli Kikaha Michael Mauti All missed significant playing time. You could begin building a pretty decent defense with just that list of players. RockyMountainSaint, foreverfan, AsylumGuido and 1 others like this.

12-23-2016, 04:25 PM	#7
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: We're not going to be a first ranked defense anytime soon Originally Posted by Danno Keenan Lewis Delvin Breaux PJ Williams Damien Swann Kyle Wilson Danelle Ellerbe Sheldon Rankins Jamarca Sanford Erik Harris Oben Gwatchum Hau'oli Kikaha Michael Mauti All missed significant playing time. You could begin building a pretty decent defense with just that list of players. With what? I love Ellerbe but he's always hurt. The rookies? Remains to be proven although I do think Rankins and Harris. Lewis hasn't stayed healthy and Breaux regressed? Williams can't stay on the field for long and Kiki I might never get to know. I ask again with what? The IR team?

12-23-2016, 04:58 PM	#8
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Re: We're not going to be a first ranked defense anytime soon Originally Posted by halloween 65 With what? I love Ellerbe but he's always hurt. The rookies? Remains to be proven although I do think Rankins and Harris. Lewis hasn't stayed healthy and Breaux regressed? Williams can't stay on the field for long and Kiki I might never get to know. I ask again with what? The IR team? So you've bashed all these guys, who were some of our top guys entering the season, yet say Dennis Allen isn't getting it done? Sounds to me like, according to you, Dennis Allen is making Chicken Salad out of Chicken ****!

12-23-2016, 05:18 PM	#9
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: We're not going to be a first ranked defense anytime soon Originally Posted by Danno So you've bashed all these guys, who were some of our top guys entering the season, yet say Dennis Allen isn't getting it done? Sounds to me like, according to you, Dennis Allen is making Chicken Salad out of Chicken ****! I'm not in denial, this D isn't that good, chicken salad or not. I am a Saints fan always have been but it don't mean I got to like the direction it's gone. You can call it bashing I call it telling the truth.

12-23-2016, 05:28 PM	#10
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Re: We're not going to be a first ranked defense anytime soon Originally Posted by halloween 65 I'm not in denial, this D isn't that good, chicken salad or not. I am a Saints fan always have been but it don't mean I got to like the direction it's gone. You can call it bashing I call it telling the truth. So is Dennis Allen doing well with sub-par talent, Or is this defense talented but he's just not getting it done? This defense isn't good, but most of our top guys missed significant playing time. For Dennis Allen to coach a bunch of street free agents to a defense ranked in the mid 20's is outstanding to me. Imagine what he could do with some talent. jnormand, AsylumGuido and K Major like this.

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