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Should receivers get paid by thier stats?
this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Not knocking what you said Kool, I am knocking this team for being in this position, cause it\'s true. And since it is true, we are screwed. Look at it this way, we aren\'t gonna draft a WR in this ...
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03-17-2005, 10:32 PM
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#11 |
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Should receivers get paid by thier stats?
Not knocking what you said Kool, I am knocking this team for being in this position, cause it\'s true. And since it is true, we are screwed.
Look at it this way, we aren\'t gonna draft a WR in this year\'s draft. we aren\'t gonna draft one in next year\'s prob(and there def won\'t be a Mike Williams). So what happens if Joe retires? We are screwed. What happens if those nagging injuries Joe has EVERY game keeps him out once he gets paid? We are screwed. Joe reminds me of Cuba Gooding in Jerry McGuire. Did everything in his damn power to show he was worth a big deal, which he has. I can\'t knock him on that. But with him making comments about holding out, I can see Joe getting a new contract and those nagging injuries he played through to get the contract keeps him sidelined a week here, two weeks there, so he can get paid every cent for every year he signed for. All in all, I guess I am not afraid to be without a certain player. I don\'t feel anyone on this team is indispensible no matter who is or isn\'t available. I am not the type to like feeling like I am backed into a corner, and this team has fans backed into a corner on several players. Kinda like we better be happy with what they have cause noone better is out there. I don\'t like that at all and I don\'t feel it should be a factor in pressuring anyone to give into any player\'s demands. That being said, 3-4 mil is not bad, EXCEPT Joe has said he wants top 5 money, and he is willing to hold out. Kinda like McCardell did in Tampa last year. They had noone beter, drafted Michael Clayton and he was almost rookie of the year. As a matter of fact, his numbers weren\'t too far from Joe\'s, as a rookie. So NOONE on this team can scare me with the noone is better out there mantra. Not Joe, not AB, noone. Hell, what\'s the worse that could happen, we won\'t make the playoffs? We get to draft Matt Leinart? What? They can go blackmail someone else with that bunk. |
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03-17-2005, 10:53 PM
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#12 |
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100th Post
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 145
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Should receivers get paid by thier stats?
i agree Fred and Boo both worked hard for their contracts, but why stop now that they got the money. And i agree we will have a heck of a secondary. And just think how awsome it would be if Fred plays up to par. And for Joe Horn i think why not pay him more, he lead the nfl most of the year, Been to pro bowl 4 of the last 5 yrs, and is the best WR NO has ever had. We cant rely on butter hands stallworth yet. We want great players but dont want to pay them.
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03-17-2005, 11:08 PM
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#13 |
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Kinder, gentler
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: dirty south
Posts: 3,889
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Should receivers get paid by thier stats?
I completely understand your concerns. Your points are valid. The difference between you and others is, you\'re not diminishing what Horn has done for this team. But you are concerned about the TEAM first and foremost, and I can\'t blame you. I like Horn, I haven\'t always, but he\'s grown on me. I\'ve watched him make plays that put him on a level higher than most of his peers. And I hate watching special players leave and go somewhere else. Here are the current salaries of some of the top receivers in the league. Randy Moss 2005 $2.75 million 2006 $8.25 million 2007 $9.75 million 2008 $11.25 million Terrell Owens 2005 $3.25 million 2006 $.77 million 2007 $5.5 million 2008 $6.5 million 2009 $7.5 million 2010 $8.5 million Marvin Harrison 2005 $1 million 2006 $2 million 2007 $4 million 2008 $7.6 million 2009 $9 million 2010 $10 million 2011 $11.4 million Torry Holt 2005 $.54 million 2006 $3.85 million 2007 $4.15 million 2008 $5.65 million 2009 $6.65 million Chad Johnson 2005 $1 million 2006 $2.75 million 2007 $3 million 2008 $3.4 million 2009 $3.6 million These numbers do not take into account signing bonus or incentives. Even then, would it be that bad? I feel we do owe Horn at least something close. Over the past 5 years, we\'ve only paid Joe a little over $4 million. That\'s bang for the buck. It would make sense for the Saints to restructure now, since he\'s due to make $3.8 million in this year alone. I\'m not saying break the bank, four year contract, maybe? Something around Holt\'s numbers. I hate the back ended contract. |
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The waiting drove me mad....
I don't want to hear from those that know... Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed Eddie is a....draftnik? |
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03-18-2005, 12:18 AM
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#14 |
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Professor Crab and
Site Donor 2014 |
Should receivers get paid by thier stats?
I\'d like to see half of every contract be based on performance. That way a team isn\'t stuck with a loafer and the player is incented to bust-ass in order to get full value for the contract.
But that will never happen in the No Fun League. The players union will never allow players to have a majority of their salaries based on performance. The original Ricky Williams contract was so unsatisfying that it will never be repeated. Why are professional athletes exempt from the normal economic realities that the rest of us are? What if a team esentially made it a policy that everyone has meaningful incentives that protected it from the loutish Sullivans of the world or from the regressions that Thomas, B. Williams and T-Sucky. |
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Calvin: "I wish I was a Tiger."
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03-18-2005, 10:06 AM
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#15 |
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Should receivers get paid by thier stats?
Nah - we should find the best athletes and give them lots of money (cough tebucky cough sully). Good plan! |
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03-18-2005, 10:15 AM
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#16 |
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Banned
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,616
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Should receivers get paid by thier stats?
Hines Ward: 2001 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 94 1003 2002 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 112 1329 2003 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 95 1163 2004 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 80 1004 Derick Mason: 2001 Tennessee Titans 15 15 73 1128 2002 Tennessee Titans 14 14 79 1012 2003 Tennessee Titans 16 16 95 1303 2004 Tennessee Titans 16 16 96 1168 Tory Holt: 2000 STL 16 15 82 1635 2001 STL 16 15 81 1363 2002 STL 16 12 91 1302 2003 STL 16 15 117 1696 2004 STL 16 16 94 1372 Amani Toomer: 1999 New York Giants 16 16 79 1183 2000 New York Giants 16 14 78 1094 2001 New York Giants 16 14 72 1054 2002 New York Giants 16 16 82 1343 2003 New York Giants 16 16 63 1057 Issac Bruce: 1999 St. Louis Rams 16 16 77 1165 2000 St. Louis Rams 16 16 87 1471 2001 St. Louis Rams 16 16 64 1106 2002 St. Louis Rams 16 16 79 1075 2003 St. Louis Rams 15 15 69 981 2004 St. Louis Rams 16 16 89 1292 Rod Smith 1998 Denver Broncos 16 16 86 1222 1999 Denver Broncos 15 15 79 1020 2000 Denver Broncos 16 16 100 1602 2001 Denver Broncos 15 14 113 1343 2002 Denver Broncos 16 16 89 1027 2003 Denver Broncos 15 15 74 845 2004 Denver Broncos 16 16 79 1144 How can WhoDat not say all those guys are top 5 too. Based on stats, right? Can\'t I make the same arguement for all those guys WhoDat? What side of you mouth are you speaking from this time? |
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03-18-2005, 10:28 AM
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#17 |
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Should receivers get paid by thier stats?
Now, I am like anyone else as a Saints fan, I wanna see players retire here too. But I have also seen, Rickey, Pat, Sam, Vaughn, Roaf, all have to go play elsewhere at the end of their careers. Joe doesn\'t get any more love from me than those guys got. Those were my favorites. By Joe\'s statements, he does not love this team like I do, he loves Joe. And God bless him for it. He is probably on his final contract. But we may not be the ones who can give him what he wants, so it\'s time to look elsewhere. If Joe was the man he says he is, he would be at the front to say, pay me for my play. If I play top 5, my incentives will pay me top 5. But Joe wants top 5 guaranteed, so sorry Joe. Thanks for all you\'ve done. I wish you much success in the future, but we gotta go in another direction. |
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03-18-2005, 11:02 AM
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#18 |
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Kinder, gentler
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: dirty south
Posts: 3,889
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Should receivers get paid by thier stats?
Two quick points
Do you think the front office would overpay Joe? I don\'t, so I\'m not that concerned about it. They overpaid Brooks, but he was the darling of the coaches. It\'s most likely wishful thinking, but I believe that a compromise will take place, a cap friendly salary, and Joe is paid well. How will that happen? I don\'t know, I can admit when I\'m not very knowledgable about a subject, and cap strategy is definately something that gives me tired head. Doesn\'t $6-8 million a year sound more like top 3 money, rather than top 5? I would consider Torry Holt top 5, no question, and look at his salary, and he\'s tied up until 2009. |
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The waiting drove me mad....
I don't want to hear from those that know... Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed Eddie is a....draftnik? |
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03-18-2005, 11:09 AM
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#19 |
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5000 POSTS! +
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Should receivers get paid by thier stats?
I consider Holt better than Joe, but that\'s a whole nother discussion. My point wasn\'t the actual salary figure, my point was where do we draw the line when it comes to feelings of noone else better so we gotta do it? 6-8 mil was just doubling what Kool said.
Also, I agree the FO will not overpay Joe, and rightfully so. But when do we know the deal won\'t get done? Before the draft, after, during camp, the pre-season, when? I would prefer we know before the draft so hopefully we can move Joe and get one of the many young studs coming out. But if not, what do we do then? Let him sit like McCardell did for Tampa until he was traded? Then we still don\'t have Joe. Try to trade him in season? We need to know now cause he has no more value than he has right now. But I guess we shall see. I doubt we will know anything before the draft though, and Joe keeps running his mouth. |
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03-18-2005, 11:57 AM
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#20 |
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Should receivers get paid by thier stats?
Since numbers seem to be hard for you, I\'ll lay it out very easily. Here are the stats for all the WRs mentioned in this thread. These are their AVERAGE annual production numbers, ranked by YARDS - which is the way that the NFL officially ranks WRs - for the last FIVE seasons (except C. Johnson, who only has 4 in the NFL). 1. Holt: 93 rec. for 1473.6 yards and 12.75 TDs 2. Harrison: 106.8 rec. for 1408.8 yards and 13 TDs 3. Owens: 89.4 rec. for 1293 yards and 13 TDs 4. Moss: 85 rec. for 1283.2 yards and 12.4 TDs 5. Horn: 87.4 rec. for 1257.8 yards and 9 TDs 6. R. Smith: 91 rec. for 1192.2 yards and 6.8 TDs 7. Bruce: 77.6 rec. for 1185 yards and 6.6 TDs 8. Mason: 81.2 rec. for 1101.2 yards and 6.8 TDs 9. Toomer: 69.2 rec. for 1059 yards and 5 TDs 10. Ward: 85.8 rec. for 1034.2 yards and 6.8 TDs 11. C. Johnson: 70.5 rec. for 1031 yards and 6.25 TDs 12. Coles: 68.4 rec. for 931.2 yards and 4 TDs Does that make it clear? Horn is 5th by Receptions. 5th by yards. 5th by TDs. Is that enough to qualify him as top 5? Or does he also need to be 5th in the 40 and 5th in a hot dog eating contest? |
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\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse
\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\" |
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