Should receivers get paid by thier stats?

shadowdrinker · 03-18-2005, 04:20 PM

Name another Saints reciever with playoff experience?..Hell..He was there during our only playoff win..

He has been the ONLY consitent player on this team for the last 5 years....

Let\'s break it down like this...

Horn, Stallworth, Henderson...not a bad trio..not bad at all...better than most..

Stallworth, Henderson,Gardner.....Whoa..what happened...no way we compete...These guys can\'t start for anybody...

Horn is the ONLY real reciever we even have...or have had in the last 5+ years....

They have tried to Draft good recievers, but, just haven\'t quite gotten there...Horn has allowed this team with a cushion...they didn\'t have to run out in FA and pay some third rate punk top 5 money, just to have someone to help out...They didn\'t need any help in the reciever spot...not only did they not have to scramble..They could draft guys, they in turn get injured time and time again, and he still leads this Offense enough to keep us in the top 15 in the League...every year.

People will scream..He could get hurt, then we\'d be screwed...HE\"S BEEN HURT, and PLAYING HURT, and STILL MAKING TOP 5 NUMBERS...

saintswhodi · 03-18-2005, 04:38 PM

AB has playoff experience too. And we know how I feel about him. I don\'t see what Joe\'s playoff experience the one time this team went has to do with anything. IF we don\'t get back to the playoffs, where will that valuable one time experience get us?

Why does everyone assume we would just cut Joe? Surely if Joe is traded, we would try to get SOMETHING in return. You do know he has a year left on his deal right? So no matter what, HE IS OURS. So you Stallworth, Henderson, Gardner theory is already flawed. BUT, if Joe holds out, LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD, how much will you love him then? then we WILL have Stall, Henderson, and Gardner. I can do without that thank you.

I am glad he has worked himself up in value. maybe we can get something good for him. It\'s all about Mike williams for me, pipe dream that it is.

WhoDat · 03-18-2005, 07:02 PM

[quote:ee631bf925]As opposed to what? Winning? We don\'t do that WITH him. {/quote]

I don\'t know why you continue to return to this argument. So Joe Horn is the reason the Saints lose? Is the team better with him or without him? That\'s like saying Archie Manning was a bad QB b/c the Saints didn\'t win with him - he was therefore expendible. Hey, the chargers record has been pretty bad since they drafted Tomlinosn - maybe they should cut him. I mean, it\'s not like they win with him. Surely you can see the blatant disconnect in that logic.

saintswhodi · 03-18-2005, 08:53 PM

So now we are comparing Joe Horn to Tomlinson? Lord, I give up. There\'s no helping you dude. Now Joe Horn is on the level of the best RB in the league, and you yourself say Horn isn\'t even the best receiver. Whoo dude, stick to the kids. Maybe you can get that over on them.

The point isn\'t that we lose CAUSE of Joe as you so falsely put it, the point is we lose whether he is here or not so what\'s the difference? 4 out of 5 years in the pro bowl, well no playoffs since 2000. How\'s that grab ya?

BlackandBlue · 03-18-2005, 09:33 PM

That wasn\'t a comparison of talent, it was a comparison of environment.

saintswhodi · 03-18-2005, 10:13 PM

I didn\'t know LT was an environment. Well the environment LT had his team in the playoffs in his 4th year. How is that even similar? Maybe a better \"environment\" than LT should have been chosen.

If we are talking about San D. as the environment, they have been to the playoffs once in the last 4 years. We haven\'t. Maybe a better \"environemnt\" should be chosen on that end too.

[Edited on 19/3/2005 by saintswhodi]

BlackandBlue · 03-18-2005, 11:18 PM

I didn\'t know LT was an environment.

OK, smartass. we know one player does not make a team. Neither LT nor Horn can be held responsible for the losing seasons they\'ve seen with their respective teams. But they\'ve both had a taste of what it is to lose. That was the point that was being made.

WhoDat · 03-19-2005, 10:23 AM

Actually, while that is a good point BnB, that\'s not the point that was being made.

Whodi\'s argument is that we didn\'t make the playoffs the last 4 years with Horn (by the way Whodi, Horn got to the playoffs his first in NO), so without him we can\'t really do any worse. No playoffs with is no better than no playoffs without.

To me, that\'s a ridiculous statement. That suggests that if Horn was really a good WR he\'d get his team to the playoffs on his own. Since he didn\'t, he must not be good, and therefore, losing him wouldn\'t hurt the team in the slightest. That is the most ridiculous statement I\'ve ever heard.

Hey, Dat Nguyen didn\'t bring his team to the playoffs last year, why are the COwboys refusing to deal him? He\'s obviously not good - they didn\'t make it with him so what\'s the worst that could happen without him? They don\'t make the playoffs? Uh oh... they should just cut him.

saintswhodi · 03-19-2005, 11:54 AM

Wow WHO, do you get out of the NEw Orleans media? The Cowboys were 10-6 with the number one D year before last anchored by who? Yes Dat Nguyen. Got another example I can shoot down? I can do this all day.

Since he didn\'t, he must not be good, and therefore, losing him wouldn\'t hurt the team in the slightest.

Hmm, never said it wouldn\'t hurt, I said it wouldn\'t matter. I can pull out Webster\'s and define \"hurt\" and \"matter\" if you like. 8-8 and not making the playoffs is the same as 4-12 and not making the playoffs is it not? OR I guess 8-8 gets you more respected around the league so overpay for a guy who may help keep us mediocre. Like the Guiness commercials, BRILLIANT!!!!!! I guess we can go kick the Tampa fans in the nuts cause we weren\'t 6-10 or whatever they were. Hey look at us, we are 8-8 and not making the playoffs, but we have a pro bowl receiver so it\'s really you guys who suck. Nice.

OK, smartass. we know one player does not make a team. Neither LT nor Horn can be held responsible for the losing seasons they\'ve seen with their respective teams. But they\'ve both had a taste of what it is to lose. That was the point that was being made.

As Who already said, that was not the point. The point that was made was poor though. It was this ridiculous statement that I countered.

Hey, the chargers record has been pretty bad since they drafted Tomlinosn - maybe they should cut him. I mean, it\'s not like they win with him.

If you follow the NFL, you would know the Chargers were 12-4 last year and in the playoffs. You would also know even with LT, the Chargers have NEVER been considered to have some of the most talent in the league, we have. That\'s why it\'s a poor example, but by all means keep defending it.

BlackandBlue · 03-19-2005, 03:31 PM

So, by your logic, we should purge the whole team of any and all talent, and start over because we did not make the playoffs. Sounds like a winner to me....

03-18-2005, 04:20 PM	#31
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	Should receivers get paid by thier stats? Name another Saints reciever with playoff experience?..Hell..He was there during our only playoff win.. He has been the ONLY consitent player on this team for the last 5 years.... Let\'s break it down like this... Horn, Stallworth, Henderson...not a bad trio..not bad at all...better than most.. Stallworth, Henderson,Gardner.....Whoa..what happened...no way we compete...These guys can\'t start for anybody... Horn is the ONLY real reciever we even have...or have had in the last 5+ years.... They have tried to Draft good recievers, but, just haven\'t quite gotten there...Horn has allowed this team with a cushion...they didn\'t have to run out in FA and pay some third rate punk top 5 money, just to have someone to help out...They didn\'t need any help in the reciever spot...not only did they not have to scramble..They could draft guys, they in turn get injured time and time again, and he still leads this Offense enough to keep us in the top 15 in the League...every year. People will scream..He could get hurt, then we\'d be screwed...HE\"S BEEN HURT, and PLAYING HURT, and STILL MAKING TOP 5 NUMBERS...
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

03-18-2005, 04:38 PM	#32
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Should receivers get paid by thier stats? AB has playoff experience too. And we know how I feel about him. I don\'t see what Joe\'s playoff experience the one time this team went has to do with anything. IF we don\'t get back to the playoffs, where will that valuable one time experience get us? Why does everyone assume we would just cut Joe? Surely if Joe is traded, we would try to get SOMETHING in return. You do know he has a year left on his deal right? So no matter what, HE IS OURS. So you Stallworth, Henderson, Gardner theory is already flawed. BUT, if Joe holds out, LIKE HE SAID HE WOULD, how much will you love him then? then we WILL have Stall, Henderson, and Gardner. I can do without that thank you. I am glad he has worked himself up in value. maybe we can get something good for him. It\'s all about Mike williams for me, pipe dream that it is.

03-18-2005, 07:02 PM	#33
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Should receivers get paid by thier stats? [quote:ee631bf925]As opposed to what? Winning? We don\'t do that WITH him. {/quote] I don\'t know why you continue to return to this argument. So Joe Horn is the reason the Saints lose? Is the team better with him or without him? That\'s like saying Archie Manning was a bad QB b/c the Saints didn\'t win with him - he was therefore expendible. Hey, the chargers record has been pretty bad since they drafted Tomlinosn - maybe they should cut him. I mean, it\'s not like they win with him. Surely you can see the blatant disconnect in that logic.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

03-18-2005, 08:53 PM	#34
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Should receivers get paid by thier stats? So now we are comparing Joe Horn to Tomlinson? Lord, I give up. There\'s no helping you dude. Now Joe Horn is on the level of the best RB in the league, and you yourself say Horn isn\'t even the best receiver. Whoo dude, stick to the kids. Maybe you can get that over on them. The point isn\'t that we lose CAUSE of Joe as you so falsely put it, the point is we lose whether he is here or not so what\'s the difference? 4 out of 5 years in the pro bowl, well no playoffs since 2000. How\'s that grab ya?

03-18-2005, 09:33 PM	#35
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Should receivers get paid by thier stats? That wasn\'t a comparison of talent, it was a comparison of environment.

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03-18-2005, 10:13 PM	#36
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Should receivers get paid by thier stats? I didn\'t know LT was an environment. Well the environment LT had his team in the playoffs in his 4th year. How is that even similar? Maybe a better \"environment\" than LT should have been chosen. If we are talking about San D. as the environment, they have been to the playoffs once in the last 4 years. We haven\'t. Maybe a better \"environemnt\" should be chosen on that end too. [Edited on 19/3/2005 by saintswhodi]

03-18-2005, 11:18 PM	#37
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Should receivers get paid by thier stats? I didn\'t know LT was an environment. OK, smartass. we know one player does not make a team. Neither LT nor Horn can be held responsible for the losing seasons they\'ve seen with their respective teams. But they\'ve both had a taste of what it is to lose. That was the point that was being made.

03-19-2005, 10:23 AM	#38
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Should receivers get paid by thier stats? Actually, while that is a good point BnB, that\'s not the point that was being made. Whodi\'s argument is that we didn\'t make the playoffs the last 4 years with Horn (by the way Whodi, Horn got to the playoffs his first in NO), so without him we can\'t really do any worse. No playoffs with is no better than no playoffs without. To me, that\'s a ridiculous statement. That suggests that if Horn was really a good WR he\'d get his team to the playoffs on his own. Since he didn\'t, he must not be good, and therefore, losing him wouldn\'t hurt the team in the slightest. That is the most ridiculous statement I\'ve ever heard. Hey, Dat Nguyen didn\'t bring his team to the playoffs last year, why are the COwboys refusing to deal him? He\'s obviously not good - they didn\'t make it with him so what\'s the worst that could happen without him? They don\'t make the playoffs? Uh oh... they should just cut him.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

03-19-2005, 11:54 AM	#39
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Should receivers get paid by thier stats? Wow WHO, do you get out of the NEw Orleans media? The Cowboys were 10-6 with the number one D year before last anchored by who? Yes Dat Nguyen. Got another example I can shoot down? I can do this all day. Since he didn\'t, he must not be good, and therefore, losing him wouldn\'t hurt the team in the slightest. Hmm, never said it wouldn\'t hurt, I said it wouldn\'t matter. I can pull out Webster\'s and define \"hurt\" and \"matter\" if you like. 8-8 and not making the playoffs is the same as 4-12 and not making the playoffs is it not? OR I guess 8-8 gets you more respected around the league so overpay for a guy who may help keep us mediocre. Like the Guiness commercials, BRILLIANT!!!!!! I guess we can go kick the Tampa fans in the nuts cause we weren\'t 6-10 or whatever they were. Hey look at us, we are 8-8 and not making the playoffs, but we have a pro bowl receiver so it\'s really you guys who suck. Nice. OK, smartass. we know one player does not make a team. Neither LT nor Horn can be held responsible for the losing seasons they\'ve seen with their respective teams. But they\'ve both had a taste of what it is to lose. That was the point that was being made. As Who already said, that was not the point. The point that was made was poor though. It was this ridiculous statement that I countered. Hey, the chargers record has been pretty bad since they drafted Tomlinosn - maybe they should cut him. I mean, it\'s not like they win with him. If you follow the NFL, you would know the Chargers were 12-4 last year and in the playoffs. You would also know even with LT, the Chargers have NEVER been considered to have some of the most talent in the league, we have. That\'s why it\'s a poor example, but by all means keep defending it.

03-19-2005, 03:31 PM	#40
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Should receivers get paid by thier stats? So, by your logic, we should purge the whole team of any and all talent, and start over because we did not make the playoffs. Sounds like a winner to me....