Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!

Tobias-Reiper · 03-15-2017, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

For you stat geeks, in 2016 Butler was the #3 cover corner by PFF (91.1)

The stat website also listed him as the #4 overall corner (90.4)

That's far from being a "system guy". And if he signs we have the best CB tandem since Porter & Greer.

I'm warming up.

Did you check the competition he faced as well?
When it comes to covering the passing game, the NFC South is a very different animal than the AFC East.

saintsfan1976 · 03-15-2017, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

Did you check the competition he faced as well?
When it comes to covering the passing game, the NFC South is a very different animal than the AFC East.

I don't believe PFF accounts for DVOA in that particular stat.

voodooido · 03-15-2017, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

Did you check the competition he faced as well?
When it comes to covering the passing game, the NFC South is a very different animal than the AFC East.

Like Brandon Marshall, Jarvis Landry, Kenny stills, decker, Sammy Watkins, woods, goodwin? Not counting the out of conference like Brown, COOKS and Snead. You point is not valid.

Tobias-Reiper · 03-16-2017, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by voodooido

Like Brandon Marshall, Jarvis Landry, Kenny stills, decker, Sammy Watkins, woods, goodwin? Not counting the out of conference like Brown, COOKS and Snead. You point is not valid.

I said passing game, and you list a bunch WRs who go from mediocre to decent within the conference the Pats play in... I guess Butler is sooo good he was covering both WRs every game lol..

... anyway ...

So, QBs in the AFC East:
Tyrod Taylor, ranked 25th last season.
Ryan Tannehill, ranked 26th last season.
Ryan Fitzpatrick, ranked 28th last season, who BTW was benched...

Then you have your AFC East WRs ( rec-yds-tds for the season):
Marshall: 59-788-3
Landry: 94-1136-4
Stills: 42-786-9
Decker: 9-194-2
Watkins: 28-430-2
Woods: 51-613-1
Goodwin: 29-431-3

All-Pro's, they are not. Also, while Marshall and Decker are tall (both listed at 6'3") the rest are between 6'1" and 5'9"

As for Brown ( I assume you meant Antonio Brown), first game 7 for 107, 2nd game 7 for 77.

As for Cooks and Snead, the Saints did not play the Patriots this year.

Next time you reply to me in an attempt to disprove my point, do your homework.

lee909 · 03-14-2017, 03:35 PM

Which is why they wont make an offer
They will see what he wants and if they can come to terms before speaking to the Pats regarding a trade. No point making the trade if you cant agree a contract first

burningmetal · 03-14-2017, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by lee909

Which is why they wont make an offer
They will see what he wants and if they can come to terms before speaking to the Pats regarding a trade. No point making the trade if you cant agree a contract first

Yes, of course the Saints will work out a deal. And the Patriots won't match that offer. Meaning we lose our #11 pick. What are you getting at?

lee909 · 03-14-2017, 03:43 PM

He wont sign a deal
They talk about a deal in principle

ML: What are you looking for each year?

MB: 14ml a year

ML: We are thinking more in the 12ml range

and on and on

ML: Ok that sounds like something we can think about and we will get back to you in the coming days

ML: Hey Bill,what do you want in trade for Butler

BB: We want a 1

ML we are thinking

And on

ML: Ok thats a deal we can do

BB: Malcolm we have a trade offer from the Saints,we cant execute a trade without you signing your tender

Tender signed
Deal done

Butler turns up in Nola

A few days later announced that the Saints and Butler have agreed a new long term agreement

burningmetal · 03-14-2017, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by lee909

He wont sign a deal
They talk about a deal in principle

ML: What are you looking for each year?

MB: 14ml a year

ML: We are thinking more in the 12ml range

and on and on

ML: Ok that sounds like something we can think about and we will get back to you in the coming days

ML: Hey Bill,what do you want in trade for Butler

BB: We want a 1

ML we are thinking

And on

ML: Ok thats a deal we can do

BB: Malcolm we have a trade offer from the Saints,we cant execute a trade without you signing your tender

Tender signed
Deal done

Butler turns up in Nola

A few days later announced that the Saints and Butler have agreed a new long term agreement

Right, I get all of that, Lee. You're arguing that they won't get him without making sure they have a long term deal. That's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying he's not worth it, in my opinion. Giving up our Number 1 pick is automatic.

You seem to be assuming, though, that the Patriots would be willing to trade him without waiting for the Saints to make an offer. What makes you believe they will operate on our terms?

burningmetal · 03-14-2017, 03:44 PM

They can't NOT offer him. They can't negotiate if they don't offer, and the Patriots aren't going to just let him go for lesser picks when they can get the number 11. I mean, I hope I'm totally wrong, but I don't see the Patriots playing nice with us after that Cooks trade.

lee909 · 03-14-2017, 03:51 PM

So long as he signs nothing then no deal has been agreed(even if it has behind closed doors). Bring him in and send him back without a deal and see what they want in trade. Thats all im saying.

All teams talk to agents behind the scenes to talk outline of numbers

The Pats may well take less as if they dont they have a p1ssed off player ad a player that is a FA next year and assuming they dont sign a same value player the max they get is a 2019 3rd round comp pick

03-15-2017, 01:09 PM	#2
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 11,037 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper Did you check the competition he faced as well? When it comes to covering the passing game, the NFC South is a very different animal than the AFC East. I don't believe PFF accounts for DVOA in that particular stat.

03-15-2017, 01:52 PM	#3
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,842	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper Did you check the competition he faced as well? When it comes to covering the passing game, the NFC South is a very different animal than the AFC East. Like Brandon Marshall, Jarvis Landry, Kenny stills, decker, Sammy Watkins, woods, goodwin? Not counting the out of conference like Brown, COOKS and Snead. You point is not valid.
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,842

03-16-2017, 05:54 PM	#4
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! Originally Posted by voodooido Like Brandon Marshall, Jarvis Landry, Kenny stills, decker, Sammy Watkins, woods, goodwin? Not counting the out of conference like Brown, COOKS and Snead. You point is not valid. I said passing game, and you list a bunch WRs who go from mediocre to decent within the conference the Pats play in... I guess Butler is sooo good he was covering both WRs every game lol.. ... anyway ... So, QBs in the AFC East: Tyrod Taylor, ranked 25th last season. Ryan Tannehill, ranked 26th last season. Ryan Fitzpatrick, ranked 28th last season, who BTW was benched... Then you have your AFC East WRs ( rec-yds-tds for the season): Marshall: 59-788-3 Landry: 94-1136-4 Stills: 42-786-9 Decker: 9-194-2 Watkins: 28-430-2 Woods: 51-613-1 Goodwin: 29-431-3 All-Pro's, they are not. Also, while Marshall and Decker are tall (both listed at 6'3") the rest are between 6'1" and 5'9" As for Brown ( I assume you meant Antonio Brown), first game 7 for 107, 2nd game 7 for 77. As for Cooks and Snead, the Saints did not play the Patriots this year. Next time you reply to me in an attempt to disprove my point, do your homework.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

03-14-2017, 03:35 PM	#5
lee909 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,875 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! Which is why they wont make an offer They will see what he wants and if they can come to terms before speaking to the Pats regarding a trade. No point making the trade if you cant agree a contract first ScottF likes this.

03-14-2017, 03:39 PM	#6
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! Originally Posted by lee909 Which is why they wont make an offer They will see what he wants and if they can come to terms before speaking to the Pats regarding a trade. No point making the trade if you cant agree a contract first Yes, of course the Saints will work out a deal. And the Patriots won't match that offer. Meaning we lose our #11 pick. What are you getting at?

03-15-2017, 01:00 PM	#1
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 For you stat geeks, in 2016 Butler was the #3 cover corner by PFF (91.1) The stat website also listed him as the #4 overall corner (90.4) That's far from being a "system guy". And if he signs we have the best CB tandem since Porter & Greer. I'm warming up. Did you check the competition he faced as well? When it comes to covering the passing game, the NFC South is a very different animal than the AFC East.

03-14-2017, 03:43 PM	#7
lee909 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,875 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! He wont sign a deal They talk about a deal in principle ML: What are you looking for each year? MB: 14ml a year ML: We are thinking more in the 12ml range and on and on ML: Ok that sounds like something we can think about and we will get back to you in the coming days ML: Hey Bill,what do you want in trade for Butler BB: We want a 1 ML we are thinking And on ML: Ok thats a deal we can do BB: Malcolm we have a trade offer from the Saints,we cant execute a trade without you signing your tender Tender signed Deal done Butler turns up in Nola A few days later announced that the Saints and Butler have agreed a new long term agreement ScottF likes this.
	"Two receivers to the left, Garcon to the right. Manning in the shotgun, puts Collie in motion. Looks in his direction...it's picked off! It's picked off! It's Tracy Porter again! He's runnin' free! He's gonna go all the way!

03-14-2017, 03:48 PM	#8
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! Originally Posted by lee909 He wont sign a deal They talk about a deal in principle ML: What are you looking for each year? MB: 14ml a year ML: We are thinking more in the 12ml range and on and on ML: Ok that sounds like something we can think about and we will get back to you in the coming days ML: Hey Bill,what do you want in trade for Butler BB: We want a 1 ML we are thinking And on ML: Ok thats a deal we can do BB: Malcolm we have a trade offer from the Saints,we cant execute a trade without you signing your tender Tender signed Deal done Butler turns up in Nola A few days later announced that the Saints and Butler have agreed a new long term agreement Right, I get all of that, Lee. You're arguing that they won't get him without making sure they have a long term deal. That's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying he's not worth it, in my opinion. Giving up our Number 1 pick is automatic. You seem to be assuming, though, that the Patriots would be willing to trade him without waiting for the Saints to make an offer. What makes you believe they will operate on our terms?

03-14-2017, 03:44 PM	#9
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! They can't NOT offer him. They can't negotiate if they don't offer, and the Patriots aren't going to just let him go for lesser picks when they can get the number 11. I mean, I hope I'm totally wrong, but I don't see the Patriots playing nice with us after that Cooks trade.

03-14-2017, 03:51 PM	#10
lee909 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,875 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! So long as he signs nothing then no deal has been agreed(even if it has behind closed doors). Bring him in and send him back without a deal and see what they want in trade. Thats all im saying. All teams talk to agents behind the scenes to talk outline of numbers The Pats may well take less as if they dont they have a p1ssed off player ad a player that is a FA next year and assuming they dont sign a same value player the max they get is a 2019 3rd round comp pick

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