bignic26

Wow, I just changed my mind about old Joe when I read those comments. It seems like we\'ve had Joe all wrong all this time. It turns out we were wrong about him after all. All this time we were thinking Jo Jo wanted top 5 money when all he ever wanted was top 2 or 3. What a class act that Joe Horn is! He\'s even willing to give some of the money back if he doesn\'t perform. I\'m ashamed that I once called this great man a selfish, me first player. Look up the meaning of class, and that\'s Joe Itawamba Horn. Look up the word facetious, and that\'s what I\'m being.

Earth to Joe...Earth to Joe...Come in Joe. Has the man ever heard of something called the salary cap? Does he think that this organization that he loves so much can afford to pay a 33 year old receiver top three money? I know that Marvin is 32, but Marvin is on another level compared to Horn.

Joe is talking about having his jersey hung in the Superdome one day. That\'s cool and all but by the time Joe gets through with the team they won\'t be able to pay anybody to go up and hang it! I\'m sure Joe would glady do that for free since he loves the team so much.

Here\'s the deal, Joe Horn is a great receiver. He\'s the best we got, he\'s the best we\'ve ever had, and he might just be the best we\'ll ever have. But as great as Joe is, he\'s not as great as he thinks he is. He\'s no Marvin Harrison, T.O. and he sure as heck isn\'t Randy Moss. As a matter of fact there are quite a few receivers who are better than Horn. The guy has lost it.

Is it just me or did he just SIGN a big contract not to long ago? I could\'ve swore he AGREED to a really nice contract recently. My how the time has flown, seems like only yesterday. This one\'s for you Joe, a true hero for Saints fans everywhere :eck05:

We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams

shadowdrinker

hahahahahahahahaha....

OK...

Go and get Horn\'s numbers, along with Moss\' and Harrison\'s from last year...and compare them..then come back and tell me again how He\'s \'\'lost it\'\', or that he\'s not even in the same league as those guys....

Numbers talk..Bull**** walks...

I would just go get them myself, but, I allready know what they are...we have done this a hundred times over...and the numbers are always the same...


I have a bet for you...if your so convinced Horn has \'\'lost it\'\'...I say he will lead the team in receiving , again...As long as He can play at least 12 out of the 16 scheduled games...if I\'m wrong, I\'ll NEVER post on here again..and I\'ll go so far as to request an IP ban , ensuring I hold true to my word...

IF, and when Horn does infact lead the team again...you do the same...

You in?...That bet is open to ANY person on this board...Put yor money where your mouth is...

Unless...your ..scared?..hahaha

[Edited on 23/3/2005 by shadowdrinker]

bignic26

Shadowdrinker, who the heck else would lead the team in receptions? Like I said Horn is a great WR and by far the best we have. I know this. Yes he puts up great numbers every year. But I\'m starting to see that all that matters to some people on this board is numbers. Numbers do talk, but sometimes they tell a misleading story. Like in the case of Horn. He puts up great numbers for three reasons: 1. He\'s a great receiver with a great skill set 2. He\'s the number one receiver in an offense that passes alot 3. He\'s the only WR that Brooks can trust. He\'s the only one who has the hands to catch 8 out of 10 passes thrown to him. Who else is Brooks going to throw to. Since you like stats so much, here\'s one to look at. How many passes are thrown to Horn compared to other top receivers. If I had to bet I\'d say that he gets more balls thrown to him than alot of the other top guys. I might be wrong because I\'ve never looked at that stat. If I am so what, would\'ve been a good point.

With the amount of passes getting thrown his way, of course he\'s going to put up good numbers. Here\'s a simple equation for you stat man...A great WR + alot of balls being thrown his way = good numbers. It\'s that simple. But while we\'re on stats, how about this one, YAC. Compare Joe\'s YAC to some of the other top dogs. I guess you\'ll say that the YAC stat isn\'t very important.

Some people on here wield numbers like they are the end all weapon for debate. Wrong. Stats can be used as a weapon but they can also be turned against you. Nobody who has any basic football sense would sit here and try to defend the posistion that Joe Horn is as good a player as Moss, T.O., Marvin, etc., etc. You can take your little stats, numbers, and silly analysis and use that against some nerd who knows nothing about football. Maybe they will be impressed by your data, but not me. The only thing that stats mean anything in is fantasy. Last year I dropped Jerry Porter and picked up Brandon Stokley because he was putting up better numbers. Does that mean that Stokley is a better receiver than Jerry Porter? :whip:

We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams

shadowdrinker

If numbers are irrelevant..How do you measure success? How do you compare? How do you grade anything at all?

In Fantasy world , your theories may hold some validity, but not in the real World...

My guess is, You went and compared those numbers...saw you were wrong, and insited that numbers are now meaningless...

You said Horn has lost it...I left it to you to prove that statment...and you have not...

Saying a guy gets more catches becuse He gets more balls thrown to him is your Defense?...Of course He gets more passes thrown to him..He\'s the best receiver we have...what do you expect them to do?

That\'s a weak position to take...

Every single aspect of Football is numbers based...Weight, Leverage..Speed..Timing....and STATS...

I\'m not the only guy in the World who grades performance based on production..It\'s pretty much a Global concept...

[Edited on 23/3/2005 by shadowdrinker]

WD52

Bignic You are just reaching with all that BS....
I got a couple of non Number/Stat things for you to chew on.. Give Horn Peyton Manning, and see how his YAC will increase when he gets balls thrown to him in stride..... Secondly Moss is a better Physical speciman, BUT!!!!!!!!!! I would not have his trashy @ss on My team, Joe is classy, Owens Is probably the best in the league, But he is still somewhat cancerous in my opinion, So Yes I say Joe is Right there With Harrison!!!!!!!!!!! You Let Horn and Harrison switch teams and lets see who does better.... I will put my money on Horn any time...............

\"I live in a Van down by the River!!!\"

BlackandBlue

Incoming Danno in 3...2...

shadowdrinker

I just think it\'s ridiculous how so many \'\'fans\'\' can hold one of our dearest players in History to such unreasonable standards?

Let him play for the league minimum, or on a purley incentive based deal...and when he does make good, he should just walk away without so much as a smirk..remarks like that really seem harsh to me..

Why are so many people biased toward our greatest Offensive player in History?

Why would He be held to standards no other player in the history of Football have had to endure?

Is it all because He\'s 33?

People age..it doesn\'t make them less of a person...But apparantly to some, it does...

Do you go to work and expect a raise after years of service?..Hell yes you do..and you should...

Would YOU be prepared to sign a contract stating if your production didn\'t meet forcast that YOU would take a pay cut?..No..you wouldn\'t...and you shouldn\'t..

Has he not been productive at a pace equal , or greater than some of the elite in the League?..Yes, He has...

So why the heck is Horn suppose to do all these things that noone else on the Planet would be expected to do?

FireVenturi

I used to be on the Saints side when it comes to this matter.....until i heard on WWL that the last time he did a contract he(joe) and his agent wanted to do a long-term deal and the Saints said to do the deal he has now and if his production is good-enough they would re-do it after a couple of years. Sounds like the Saints should keep their promise. They also said on the radio that the Saints did not deny sayin that!!!

Danno

When it looks stupid and he gets flagged 15 yards, it IS unsightly.
Whoever said that was OK. Never read anyone say that.
No one said he sucks. No one. Every thing I\'ve ever read is about him wanting more than many think he\'s worth.
I think AB gets more than his share of criticism on every board I\'ve ever read. FAR more that Horn has ever gotten or ever will.
I\'ll bet you already do.

4saintspirit

Because we do not want to pay him in the top 1 or 2 receivers makes us Horn bashers. How old is Joe -- hjow old is Moss, Harrisson, Owens etc. I would say Horn deserves a raise -- I would agree that he deserves some significant guaranteed money -- but not to the tune of one of the top 2 receivers. Stats are just great for comparison -- but to sign a contract in the future means you have to judge his future productivity. In my mind he will only be a top tier receiver for 2 years not 6. Pay him that way --

\"I have a photographic memory -- I just don\'t have any film.\"