Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

This is why you take him off your draft board.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

Mixon is gone on day 2. Top 20 talent with baggage.

Steak dinner on me (I'm true to my word) if he is still on the board by the 3rd round.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

He's essentially what everyone feared about Nick Fairley. However, Fairley has grown up. McDowell would probably be the Fairley that Lions fans complained about.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

I violently agree with you, so no need to put up a steak dinner bet...

SFIAH

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

So if you're in violent agreement with someone, are you going to kick their ass for being so right, kick your own ass for them being so right, or...? :)

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

They should look to upgrade Ingram. Last years was his first 16 game season and even then he was coveres by a good back up. Most years he spen too many games in the tub. I like the guy but he we lack a true home run hitter in the backfield.

The offense gas lioked at its best eith a Thomas/Sproles involed and McCaffrey and Mixin are that tyoe

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

McCaffrey and Mixion

would be a dangerous two headed monster

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

While we're at it, let's go ahead and upgrade the QB, WR, and LT position too. That way we can have the #1 scoring offense in the league instead of #2 and we can lose games 48-45 instead of 35-32.

I know that it's fantasy mock draft time. I'll be relieved when the torture finally ends. I also know like Payton, many fans love to see shiny new tinker toys. But honestly with a bottom 10 defense the last 3 years and the raft of IR season ending injuries we've seen on that side of the ball, can the Saints really afford to spend #11, #32, and #42 on any player that isn't a projected defensive starter?

To wearily repeat. In 2013 the Saints defense was 19 PPG in scoring. The team went to the playoffs and won a playoff game. Since then the defense has been 26 PPG or worse. 3 straight 7-9 seasons and no playoffs.

There are no once in a generation talents on the offensive side of the ball in this draft. So considering the situation of a current top 3 offense and bottom 10 defense, both the BPA and need areas filling are both on the defensive side of the ball.

As for Ingram being a home run hitter, just a quick reminder:


SFIAH

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

I wouldn't take him off the draft board but this is why he doesn't go in the 1st round. Every draft pick is a huge gamble but if I'm in that war room come draft day and a talent like McDowell is there in the 2nd I pull the trigger in a heartbeat, get him on a cheap rookie contract, coach him up, let the players help out with motovating him and watch a monster come alive. He's damn good there is no denying that, much more potential than players going higher than him.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

The running game has lots of room for improvement as it was only 16th in the NFL in RuYd/game (19th in attempts)...

Having a better running game would allow us to improve our Time of Possession, and that limits the exposure of the defense...

Logic continues that limiting the exposure of the defense translates to fewer allowed yardage and opposing scoring opportunities...

Haven't been the biggest Ingram fan since we drafted him in the first round using a first and a second round pick to acquire him...

And it only took him nearly five years to actually have an impact in the Saints offensive scheme...

But to hang it all on Ingram is erroneous at best as we were only 19th in rushing attempts last season...

Not to mention that we were running a 3-guard rotation to keep Jahri Evans fresh and Peat was having to play LT...

I do believe Ingram needs a complimentary RB, and McCaffrey looks to be the ideal choice in this draft...

But we also could use another young guard in addition to the Warford FA signing, a Grubbs salve signing for failing on Zeitler...

The team did a solid job of shoring up the roster Pre-Draft; and as deep as this draft is, we have options with our first five picks...

So if we took McCaffrey with the 11th pick, I wouldn't panic or blink unless we didn't have an add'l DE after pick 76...

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

You don't draft potential at pick 11. You draft production and hope for the best.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

I'd take that a step further, you draft an impact, immediate starter at No. 11 and a ProBowler within two seasons...

And if you're just hoping for the best with the pick and not being confident and right with the pick, you need another vocation...

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

Oh goodness. Now you are channeling my brother, who consistently makes these same arguments. I'll give the same response here that I give to him: Running the football isn't in the Payton/Carmichael/Brees offensive DNA. As much as the three give lip service to wanting to run the ball, their actions belie that lip service.

You can see that in Ingram's running efficiency. 1043 yards in a little over 200 carries for a 5.1 YPC. That's why are 16th in yd/gm while 19th in attempts.

All true. Except Payton, Brees and company are simply not going to do it. We have 10 seasons of evidence. In that span there were 2 1000+ yard rushers, and 2 with more than 200 attempts in a season.

So while logically it makes sense to run the ball, it's not going to happen.
Exactly. Ingram has become a productive, efficient, all around back. The team has already invested the draft picks and the extension dollars to get him to this point. So to me, throwing him aside and trying to slot someone new is nonsensical.
FIFY. But note that even if the Saints took McCaffery, it would not improve the running game. Payton would take his new toy and shuffle him in the backfield, the slot, and out wide. He would swing passes to him in the flat, and throw PT type screens to him. He would be as much a running back in this offense as Reggie Bush was. And absolutely none of those rushing numbers you quoted at the top would change, because as I stated it's not in the Saints offensive DNA to do so. But at what cost? Spend a #32 or #42 on a guy that won't likely start on an offense that may need the depth, but really isn't a position of need?
Of course with the Saints draft DNA, they will exercise those options. In each of the last three years the Saints have taken an offensive player in one of the first 2 rounds. So I know my hope that they will stock up on defensive talent that can be brought in and coached up so that the defense can function as and effective standalone unit in the seasons to come is completely unrealistic.

I would flip out if players like Barnett or Foster were on the board at 11.

SFIAH

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

True, but there would be multiple ways to deliver the ball to the RB McCaffrey and the end result still would be longer, sustained drives, greater time of possession, minimizing the time the defense has to be on the field...

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

Didn't say we necessarily need to draft a guard at those two spots, just that we need a young guard or offensive tackle to start developing when/if Peat has to kick out to one of the OTs...

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

My brother, you need to take a breath and slide over to Seer's Coaching Replacements thread...

We do have defensive talent on this team; we had an unusually high percentage of starters lost during a transition to new scheme season...

Plus, as I said on the new coaches thread, the new hires are getting overlooked by everyone except the competition; this may be the most talented, well, the best coaching staff of the Payton era...

Stephone Anthony came in as a rookie and nearly took defensive rookie of the year honors - look for him and other players' game to elevate under Mike Nolan, Ryan Nielsen guidance...

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

There's truth in what you say in Payton's nature as has been on display for 10+ seasons...

And that's why a back like McCaffrey would be more successful than a back like Fournette...

And suppose we do go RB at No. 11 and McCaffrey and Fournette are on the board, can you imagine picking up the top 3rd pick because Cleveland would be worried about not getting Fournette if we traded out?

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

And if they're both gone, here's your sleeper pick: Samuel out of tOSU. He's a little smaller, but I think faster and would be better at that really short pass stuff we used to do with Bush and Sproles. He was usually a bright spot even when the Buckeye offense was moving at the speed of smell. Watch some of his highlights and see what you think.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

I hear you. I just don't believe that's the proper path to being a consistently winning organization. The reason being that if the defense cannot hold its own, then the opposition will do exactly the same thing to our defense.

Defensively the Saint need to be able to get offenses off the field on 3rd down, play tough in the red zone, and gather up a few turnovers. None of those can be helped by the offense. That can be helped by disruptive defensive linemen, LBs that can stop the run and cover TEs and backs, and DBs that can cover, break up passes, and catch the ball when it hits them in the hands.

The Saints offense playing complementary football is wishful thinking. The solution isn't to improve the offense to cover a inadequate defense. The solution is to field an adequate defense that complements the productive and explosive offense we already have.

SFIAH

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

Since he's not going at 11, no worries then. The only player at 11 that is a solid sure thing is OJ, players like Foster, Barnett and I'll even throw Peppers in there, you hoping for the best but each of those have potential. So do we draft a sure thing or a player with potential at 11?

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

OJ is no sure thing. One season and he was never gonna learn the full route tree nor have prolific numbers in a Nick Saban offense...

With Bama players it's definitely a 50-50 boom or bust...

Look at last year's draft, we were talking about two D-linemen going in the Top 15 and they were lucky they got picked by the end of the second round...

Nick's got a proven system for Nick and Bama's success, not necessarily developing NFL prospects, Bama's NFL prospects were NFL prospects before they stepped foot on campus...

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

IDK JP,

Over the last few years, I've seen quite a few Bama players make an impact at the elite level. Specifically on defense.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

I think that's what he was saying. All or nothing. For every one that makes elite impact there is one that was supposed to make that sort of impact but fizzled out. No way to tell until they are under fire in the league.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

I totally disagree about OJ not being a sure thing with the type of O Payton has set up. He becomes an immediate red zone threat and can due it all, block, catch , runs good routes, has speed and has size. Perfect compliment for the O if you ask me.Fleener and his contract could be history next season with this pick at #11 and the O becomes a quick strike O again and in the 3rd go after Mixon and it's a O that is feared again. I also would take the Ole Miss qb. in the 5th to groom.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

OJ accepted every off season invite despite being a top 20 pick and did one thing. Answered every possible doubter out there about his abilities. He has gone from an excellent TE with questionable upside receiving skill due to coming out of Bama to probably the best receiver in the draft.

I do not know what more he could have done.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

Reuben Foster may need second surgery on shoulder. If reports are accurate, he'll drop down considerably in the upcoming draft.

http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/201...nother-surgery

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

Oh man... This is the first I've seen of this. Foster was my #1 dream pick but this might be just a little too much.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

I think ive found maybebthe worst mock draft ive seen.

Step forward PFF

11. New Orleans Saints
Tre’Davious White, CB, LSU

White bounced back from a subpar 2014 season to post the top overall grade among cornerbacks at 90.5. He broke up 12 passes, good for third in the nation, while showing the skills to cover both on the outside or in the slot. The Saints simply have to add talent to their defense, and White is a strong, versatile option

Leaving Adams and Solomon Thomas on the table

32. New Orleans Saints (from New England Patriots)
David Njoku, TE, Miami

The Saints add another weapon for QB Drew Brees as Njoku brings wide receiver-like skills to tight end. He averaged 11.2 yards after the catch per reception last season while ranking third in the draft class with 200 yards on deep (20-plus yards) receptions.

42. New Orleans Saints
Gareon Conley, CB, Ohio State

The Saints double-dip at the cornerback position, this time adding Conley, who brings good size and movement skills. He can play press or off coverage, allowing a nation-low passer rating of 13.6 into his coverage, and while there was certainly some luck involved in that number, he adds another playmaker on the back end of a revamped New Orleans defense.

76. New Orleans Saints
Curtis Samuel, RB/WR, Ohio State

Samuel needs an offense that will take advantage of his skills as both a runner and as a receiver, and what better place than New Orleans? He’ll play in the slot where he can run smooth routes at the short an intermediate level while keeping defenses off balance just enough with some work out of the backfield, much like he did at Ohio State.

103. New Orleans Saints (compensatory pick)
Taywan Taylor, WR, Western Kentucky

More weapons for QB Drew Brees, this time in the form of Taylor, who brings solid outside route-running that helped him rank third in the draft class with 3.92 yards per route run in 2016.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

See, knew something wasn't right about that scene at the hospital...

I'm in the oil patch and with friends who own and run a drug testing facility; we see guys throw a scene at the last minute prior to testing - to avoid the test...

This is why I've been saying there needs to be a longer look at the medicals...

I'll be the first to tell you we don't know what really happened in Indy, but the fact those medicals were still needed and not done is why I've pulled back on Foster...

And if you've been on this site for a few years, you know I bang the drum every year for linebackers like Foster...

Foster should be a man-crush for me, but my instincts told me closer scrutiny was warranted with regards to this shoulder injury...

Plus, Foster has a real shady agent; well, REAL shady for an agent; and he seems to be panicking with his twitter account instead of playing it cool...

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

I know one thing, while I'm from Louisiana and I'll pull for State, I don't feel we have to have LSU players on the Saints...

But we've reached our quota of Buckeyes as far as I'm concerned...

And Gareon Conley is likely to go before Tre White...And WTF is the Defensive End reinforcements?

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

Look at the talent, not the school. They're all just big boys now. Let's pick the best regardless where they once were.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

The Butler signing WILL happen.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

stop scaring me already. Butler better not have a first round pick attached to him. I watch him every Sunday if the saints are not on. way over priced.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

Agreed

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

Hagan, why are you scared??

Aren't we in "win now" mode? Butler (2nd team ALL PRO) isn't a sure thing but he is sure bet than 99.9 % of the rookies out there. Marcus Peter types are rare. As I stated before, I'm hoping it's the 42nd pick instead of the 32. Who is to say that pick isn't another Anthony?

The Saints are past due for a edge rusher and corner back.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

Not really Saints related, but I need to post this somewhere...

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

why pay the price for a shut down CB for a player that can not survive on an island all alone?

At this price i would have pushed for top CB in FA.

get back to the playoffs and/or win the division then talk to about win now attitude.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

Not to rehash on the "Butler trade scenario" but I don't agree with that. The market sets the value. Butler is playing in his prime & that ship has sailed for bringing in a "top CB" in Free Agency. I'm sure you've seen enough games in the CT area to know that Malcolm would be the best corner on our team. The Saints need to invest in it's pass rush and if we can get an above average to elite corner back PRE DRAFT, it's a wise move. Brees is 38 ... we don't have time for rookies to take their lumps. The sense of urgency to win is here and we need to try and win the division & subsequent playoff run now.

If we can get Butler, draft the edge rusher @ #11, get a young cb in waiting @ pick 42 or in the third and still have an All Pro corner opposite Breaux.

Re: Saints Possible Options At Pick No. 11
 

We could still land Butler for our 2nd round pick on day 1.

I believe it will be for pick 32 though.