Originally Posted by CharityMike (Post 752736)

I am beginning to see where Guido is coming from. The eff'n negative nellies around here..good grief man. Can't we just get the season started before we start worrying about heads rolling?

Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 752731)

At what point are you going to call for heads to roll? I know pretty much everyone here will riot if we have another 7-9 season but what about 9-7? What is not good enough?
For me it's playoffs. That could change depending on how tough the division and conference is but barring an 11-5 record and still missing the playoffs I'll be ready for big change. I don't think Brees will stick around if it not at the very least a week 16 determination.
Starting out with a win from the get go could very well be a determining factor. 4 0-4 starts will start ****ing with their heads.
1 more month till camp. 1 more.

Originally Posted by jnormand (Post 752740)

But truth is, I think this season we'll see a lot of improvement.

Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 752738)

Wtf are you talking about? It's a legit question. Several people here said they would want change if there wasn't a significant improvement. We have the talent to make a run but if you have four years of mediocracy something will need to change.

Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 752752)

That's my expectation, yes. Playoffs or get out. Ever think Drew is thinking the same?

Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 752767)

I do. He did tweet that he was getting tired of telling himself "wait till next year". Given the time it could have been simply frustration but it is very uncharacteristic of him to put something like that on social media.
I think it will depend on how the season goes. If we miss the playoffs with an 11-5 or so record and he sees positive development he stays.

If not I think he moves on.

Originally Posted by foreverfan (Post 752737)

Playoffs or bust? Can we all agree on at least a decent pre-game show?

https://media.giphy.com/media/p6f8iNdZzrXri/giphy.gif

Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 752738)

Wtf are you talking about? It's a legit question. Several people here said they would want change if there wasn't a significant improvement. We have the talent to make a run but if you have four years of mediocracy something will need to change.

If your happy with a team that just has a winning record. then fine, but we have more to work with now talent wise than we have in years. It's time to hold them to a standard.I think some people need to be held accountable if it happens again.

Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 752738)

Guido only looks for the negative in people's posts.

What's so negative about the question.

Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 752731)

At what point are you going to call for heads to roll? I know pretty much everyone here will riot if we have another 7-9 season but what about 9-7? What is not good enough?
For me it's playoffs. That could change depending on how tough the division and conference is but barring an 11-5 record and still missing the playoffs I'll be ready for big change. I don't think Brees will stick around if it not at the very least a week 16 determination.
Starting out with a win from the get go could very well be a determining factor. 4 0-4 starts will start ****ing with their heads.
1 more month till camp. 1 more.

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 752766)

That's a false argument. There's only one person in the Saints organization that can demand change: Tom Benson. He treats Loomis and Payton like they are his sons. It may literally take getting a new owner for there to be a change in leadership with the Saints.
SFIAH

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 752781)

A few people here, and they are all the same few that gripe about everything and are always negative, have called for a change. Don't project your feelings upon the vast majority of Saints fans around here.



What is so negative about the question? What isn't? Calling for heads to roll seems pretty negative. Thinking that "everyone will riot if we have another 7-9" is pretty negative. Implying that 9-7 isn't good enough is pretty negative when the season hasn't even started. Thinking that Brees will not stick around under a certain scenario is pretty negative. The whole ranting nature of the post was negative.

It has obviously become such second nature on your part that you don't even notice. You are sounding like the reincarnation of Will(insert team name here)81. The opening post was identical to something he would have posted.

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 752766)

That's a false argument. There's only one person in the Saints organization that can demand change: Tom Benson. He treats Loomis and Payton like they are his sons. It may literally take getting a new owner for there to be a change in leadership with the Saints.



I do value your opinion. But honestly it isn't actionable. To have an impact, the entire WhoDat Nation would have to turn their back on the team and walk away. And we all know how likely that's going to happen.


Well Guido is the eternal optimist. And honestly, June, July, and August is the right time for optimism. I posit his frustration is that many refuse to take into account the positive changes and focus only on the what could have beens (Zeitler for example) and what poor outcomes are possible (such as your question) at a time when nothing can be done about either.

I think another missed point is that the schedule matters each and every season. There are divisions in the NFL that are tough sledding. Currently the AFC West (who the Saints played last year) are an excellent example. Then there are creampuffs (the NFC West is sliding back into that category). So each season part of the evaluation is sizing up the competition. This season only the AFC East is likely in the bottom 3 of divisions. And it gets complicated early on because we take on the best two teams in that division in the first 4 games under unusual circumstances (away game in London).

Here's my bottom line: the first valid team evaluation cannot occur until the first quarter of the season has been played. And this season with such a brutal start (3 away games and the Patriots at home), it may take upwards of 8,10, or even 12 games to really understand the positioning of the Saints this upcoming season.

My point (and I think Guido's too) is that it's way premature to be asking about massive changes under a what if scenario. I can easily flip it and ask:



Would your question have any validity at that point?

So let's focus on the potential. The potential of having a realtively healthy and talented secondary. The potential of having fast and well coached linebackers for the first time in a decade. The potential of a stout and deep defensive line.

We can debate the aftermath after some games have been played. But right now everyone in the NFL is 0-0 and has just as much of a chance as anyone else to get deep into the playoffs.

So why focus on the negative now?

SFIAH

Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 752797)

Dude last year over half this board was talking about firing Payton if we went 7-9 this year. A lot of those myself not included, wanted him gone then. Just because you are the eternal optimist doesn't mean you have to hate on people who are realistic.
You are a polae opposite of Willsaintswhatever. You have your ideas and if anyone else has one you don't agree with you act as their points aren't valid.
Just because we don't all think Brees will play 5 more years like you do doesn't mean we don't hope he will.

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL (Post 752766)

That's a false argument. There's only one person in the Saints organization that can demand change: Tom Benson. He treats Loomis and Payton like they are his sons. It may literally take getting a new owner for there to be a change in leadership with the Saints.



I do value your opinion. But honestly it isn't actionable. To have an impact, the entire WhoDat Nation would have to turn their back on the team and walk away. And we all know how likely that's going to happen.


Well Guido is the eternal optimist. And honestly, June, July, and August is the right time for optimism. I posit his frustration is that many refuse to take into account the positive changes and focus only on the what could have beens (Zeitler for example) and what poor outcomes are possible (such as your question) at a time when nothing can be done about either.

I think another missed point is that the schedule matters each and every season. There are divisions in the NFL that are tough sledding. Currently the AFC West (who the Saints played last year) are an excellent example. Then there are creampuffs (the NFC West is sliding back into that category). So each season part of the evaluation is sizing up the competition. This season only the AFC East is likely in the bottom 3 of divisions. And it gets complicated early on because we take on the best two teams in that division in the first 4 games under unusual circumstances (away game in London).

Here's my bottom line: the first valid team evaluation cannot occur until the first quarter of the season has been played. And this season with such a brutal start (3 away games and the Patriots at home), it may take upwards of 8,10, or even 12 games to really understand the positioning of the Saints this upcoming season.

My point (and I think Guido's too) is that it's way premature to be asking about massive changes under a what if scenario. I can easily flip it and ask:



Would your question have any validity at that point?

So let's focus on the potential. The potential of having a realtively healthy and talented secondary. The potential of having fast and well coached linebackers for the first time in a decade. The potential of a stout and deep defensive line.

We can debate the aftermath after some games have been played. But right now everyone in the NFL is 0-0 and has just as much of a chance as anyone else to get deep into the playoffs.

So why focus on the negative now?

SFIAH

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 752778)

Once again, try getting your facts straight. It would have been uncharacteristic of Brees to put something like that on social media because he never did. Brees was interviewed by Mike Nabors and Nabors posted the following tweet without any context.

https://twitter.com/MikeNabors/statu...35466431574016

Nabors later posted the following tweet explaining that the context of the quote had nothing to do with any possibility of leaving the Saints for another team. It had to do with his own career.

https://twitter.com/MikeNabors/statu...48881799593985

To further place this all in context, the interview was immediately following the final game of the season against the Falcons. Brees subsequently expressed and stressed his desire to play with the Saints well into his forties.

Do you ever research anything before you post it as fact?

:roll:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 752807)

Dude, last year a handful of people around here were talking about firing Payton. Pretty much the same few that are always griping about things anyway. First of all, there was no chance of Payton being fired in the first place which showed how little those people knew. Secondly, whether the record reflected it or not, for the past two years the franchise has been heading in the right direction. Any change at the top would thrown all of that to the wind.

Being negative and always looking at worst case scenarios is not being realistic.

Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 752946)

Splitting hairs I see......

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 752948)

Splitting hairs? More like chopping trees.

Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 752949)

Yeah, drew doesn't e joy losing and I noticed he didn't sign or even want to to discuss a new contract. My man might want to see what else is out there. He's not like you. He can handle reality.

Originally Posted by foreverfan (Post 752737)

Playoffs or bust? Can we all agree on at least a decent pre-game show?

https://media.giphy.com/media/p6f8iNdZzrXri/giphy.gif

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 752951)

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 752950)

Brees said he doesn't want to discuss a new contract at this point because he wanted to take his career a year at a time. NOT his time with the Saints. He has also said he has no intention of playing anywhere else. His agent, as I have pointed out to you on several occasions, is the same agent that Peyton Manning has. Manning also went to a year to year mode over the last few years of his contract. And before you say that, "Yeah! And Manning left Indy!," don't forget he was released after his injury AND his absolute replacement was in place. He didn't choose to leave.

I can handle reality. Reality is an understanding of the present environment. It is you, my friend, that cannot recognize reality because you are so absorbed in your personal agenda.

Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 752953)

Like it or not Brees is not going to last forever and Payton fired a butt load of staff recently. We are trying to win now.

Therefore, anything short of the playoffs is an automatic failure.

But then again, all 32 teams aim for the playoffs.

Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 752954)

Manning, what? Brees is giving SP this year. You already admitted you couldn't handle reality. You admitted you got sick and basically the cancer caused you so much fear that you're scared you can't handle real life. That's your deal.

Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 752955)

And Drew knows this. He doesn't want to end his career with a consistent loser. So he is on a wait and see.

Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 752953)

Like it or not Brees is not going to last forever and Payton fired a butt load of staff recently. We are trying to win now.

Therefore, anything short of the playoffs is an automatic failure.

But then again, all 32 teams aim for the playoffs.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 752952)

Definition of gratuitous pics

1
a : pictures given unearned or without recompense
b : pictures not involving a return benefit, compensation, or consideration has gratuitous permission to pass over private land
c : pictures costing nothing : free The restaurant provided a gratuitous appetizer picture.

2
: pictures not called for by the circumstances : unwarranted gratuitous insolence a gratuitous assumption

gratuitously pictured adverb

gratuitousness picture noun

3
http://blackandgold.com/customavatars/avatar3241_82.gif

Originally Posted by foreverfan (Post 752962)

#3...???? How dare you insult me. ;) :goodidea:

https://media.giphy.com/media/G7y9KYltMadz2/giphy.gif

Originally Posted by WillSaints81 (Post 752960)

If we do not make the playoffs this time, that's it. Time to make changes. Drew's legacy is already falling further and further with each 7-9 season. How can he keep putting up with losing season after losing season?