Something Positive about Brooks. I must be insane.

saintfan · 04-09-2005, 10:06 AM

You have stated that you believe some of Brooks\' troubles are results of offensive line woes and inconsistent WR play, correct?

This is pretty much what it boils down to eh? Yes, I absolutely think the line and our WR\'s contribute greatly to a lot of the stuff you guys wanna blame on Brooks. This is precisely what I think. I can\'t understand how you and a handful of others could possibly disagree.

So in other words, no, you cannot justify how those other bad QBs with bad o-lines and WRs played better football than Aaron Brooks.

I\'m not convinced that their QB rating indicates they\'ve played better football. Frankly, the QB rating has much to do with things out of the control of the QB. This fact is why most NFL QB\'s aren\'t very fond on the \"rating\" stat.

I see the QB rating as a team stat really, but I\'m sure you disagree.

WhoDat · 04-09-2005, 10:08 AM

How can a below average QB set so many Saints QB records or be on the verge thereof?

1. The best RB in Saints history.
2. The best WR in Saints history.
3. The only WR tandem to both have 1000 yards in a season.
4. The most explosive WR corp in Saints history.
5. The most open and exciting offensive scheme in Saints history.
6. The worst defense in Saints history (thus, more catch up).
7. The pass-happy mentality of the league now with the most strict and WR-friendly interference rules ever.

Is that enough?

Jim Everett holds a lot of Saints records. Was he the great QB that AB is (at least if you ask AB, Billy, or Saintfan)??

[Edited on 9/4/2005 by WhoDat]

GumboBC · 04-09-2005, 10:12 AM

How can a below average QB set so many Saints QB records or be on the verge thereof?

1. The best RB in Saints history.
2. The best WR in Saints history.
3. The only WR tandem to both have 1000 yards in a season.
4. The most explosive WR corp in Saints history.
5. The most open and exciting offensive scheme in Saints history.
6. The worst defense in Saints history (thus, more catch up).
7. The pass-happy mentality of the league now with the most strict and WR-friendly interference rules ever.

Is that enough?

Jim Everett holds a lot of Saints records. Was he the great QB that AB is (at least if you ask AB, Billy, or Saintfan)??

[Edited on 9/4/2005 by WhoDat]

Deuce is not the best RB in Saints\' history. Not yet anyway.

I personally think Dalton Hillard was better than Deuce. Before Dalton got injured he was right up there with the best in the NFL during his time with the Saints.

ScottyRo · 04-09-2005, 10:16 AM

I guess I\'m just dumb, but I can\'t understand how a WR corp can be considered \"explosive\", \"the best in Saints history,\" and be \"the only WR tandem\" with 1,000 yards without giving the QB credit for those accomplishments as well. Can a below average QB really make the WRs look better than himself?

WhoDat · 04-09-2005, 10:20 AM

I\'m not convinced that their QB rating indicates they\'ve played better football. Frankly, the QB rating has much to do with things out of the control of the QB. This fact is why most NFL QB\'s aren\'t very fond on the \"rating\" stat.

I see the QB rating as a team stat really, but I\'m sure you disagree.

Uh, yeah I disagree. While I have never suggested to you that the o-line and WRs do not affect AB, you have refused to suggest that his often poor and inconsistent play affects them.

Bottom line - no single position affects the offense as a whole more than the QB.

You say that the QB rating is meaningless - why then do all the great have such good QB ratings? Even the ones who played on bad teams? Mind you, there are exceptions to every rule, but for the most part, QB rating is a good measure of how well a QB played.

For example - the five best QB ratings this year were
Peyton Manning
Daunte Culpepper
Drew Brees
Donovan McNabb
Ben Roethlisberger

Can you honestly say that these guys aren\'t the 5 QBs who played the best ball last season? Really? Maybe one is sixth or seventh, but the point is, they played well. Did their teams affect them? of course! But were the Vikings 15 spots better as a team than the Saints? C\'mon.

QB rating matters - it shows a QB\'s efficiency. You want to blame AB\'s low efficiency on the rest of the team. I want to blame it on him. Do you think AB\'s numbers would have been better or worse if he played in ATL, CAR, or TB?

WhoDat · 04-09-2005, 10:23 AM

I guess I\'m just dumb, but I can\'t understand how a WR corp can be considered \"explosive\", \"the best in Saints history,\" and be \"the only WR tandem\" with 1,000 yards without giving the QB credit for those accomplishments as well. Can a below average QB really make the WRs look better than himself?

So players can\'t succeed and show their value despite a bad team? Tell that to LaDanian Tomlinson.

If Peyton Manning got hurt this year, would it be hard for you to tell that the Colts WRs are explosive?

ScottyRo · 04-09-2005, 10:24 AM

All I know about Everett is that he was Ditka\'s first and possibly worst roster mistake. That year we went and 6-10 with HEATH SHULER, possibly the worst starting QB ever for the saints.

Ah, the good ole days when we only dreamed about being 8-8.

GumboBC · 04-09-2005, 10:33 AM

Bottom line - no single position affects the offense as a whole more than the QB

WhoDat --

Man, I just don\'t get the statements you make!!

I agree, no \"single\" position affects the offense as much as the QB.

But get this, WhoDat.

No \"single\" position on the offense is affected more by other players than the QB!

Do you understand that?

saintfan · 04-09-2005, 10:38 AM

Uh, yeah I disagree

Why am I not surprised.

you have refused to suggest that his often poor and inconsistent play affects them.

This couldn\'t be more inaccurate. I do not refuse. What I do is point out, for example, that a pass doesn\'t have to be perfectly thrown to make it catchable. You, however, do seem to suggested that Brooks is the primary reason our team hasn\'t performed up to expectations.

You say that the QB rating is meaningless

Nope. This isn\'t true. What I DO say is the QB rating is the result of things often out of the control of the QB. An example of this would be a catchable pass dropped by a WR. Does Brooks throw some bad passes. Of course. Does he throw passes that should be caught but are dropped? Well, I think he does. Once again I\'m sure you\'d disagree.

You want to blame AB\'s low efficiency on the rest of the team. I want to blame it on him.

The big difference between you and me, Whodat, is that you want to blame it ALL on him and I think the blame should get passed around to ALL those responsible.

04-09-2005, 10:06 AM	#31
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Something Positive about Brooks. I must be insane. You have stated that you believe some of Brooks\' troubles are results of offensive line woes and inconsistent WR play, correct? This is pretty much what it boils down to eh? Yes, I absolutely think the line and our WR\'s contribute greatly to a lot of the stuff you guys wanna blame on Brooks. This is precisely what I think. I can\'t understand how you and a handful of others could possibly disagree. So in other words, no, you cannot justify how those other bad QBs with bad o-lines and WRs played better football than Aaron Brooks. I\'m not convinced that their QB rating indicates they\'ve played better football. Frankly, the QB rating has much to do with things out of the control of the QB. This fact is why most NFL QB\'s aren\'t very fond on the \"rating\" stat. I see the QB rating as a team stat really, but I\'m sure you disagree.
	C'mon Man...

04-09-2005, 10:08 AM	#32
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Something Positive about Brooks. I must be insane. How can a below average QB set so many Saints QB records or be on the verge thereof? 1. The best RB in Saints history. 2. The best WR in Saints history. 3. The only WR tandem to both have 1000 yards in a season. 4. The most explosive WR corp in Saints history. 5. The most open and exciting offensive scheme in Saints history. 6. The worst defense in Saints history (thus, more catch up). 7. The pass-happy mentality of the league now with the most strict and WR-friendly interference rules ever. Is that enough? Jim Everett holds a lot of Saints records. Was he the great QB that AB is (at least if you ask AB, Billy, or Saintfan)?? [Edited on 9/4/2005 by WhoDat]
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

04-09-2005, 10:12 AM	#33
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Something Positive about Brooks. I must be insane. How can a below average QB set so many Saints QB records or be on the verge thereof? 1. The best RB in Saints history. 2. The best WR in Saints history. 3. The only WR tandem to both have 1000 yards in a season. 4. The most explosive WR corp in Saints history. 5. The most open and exciting offensive scheme in Saints history. 6. The worst defense in Saints history (thus, more catch up). 7. The pass-happy mentality of the league now with the most strict and WR-friendly interference rules ever. Is that enough? Jim Everett holds a lot of Saints records. Was he the great QB that AB is (at least if you ask AB, Billy, or Saintfan)?? [Edited on 9/4/2005 by WhoDat] Deuce is not the best RB in Saints\' history. Not yet anyway. I personally think Dalton Hillard was better than Deuce. Before Dalton got injured he was right up there with the best in the NFL during his time with the Saints.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-09-2005, 10:16 AM	#34
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Something Positive about Brooks. I must be insane. I guess I\'m just dumb, but I can\'t understand how a WR corp can be considered \"explosive\", \"the best in Saints history,\" and be \"the only WR tandem\" with 1,000 yards without giving the QB credit for those accomplishments as well. Can a below average QB really make the WRs look better than himself?

04-09-2005, 10:20 AM	#35
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Something Positive about Brooks. I must be insane. I\'m not convinced that their QB rating indicates they\'ve played better football. Frankly, the QB rating has much to do with things out of the control of the QB. This fact is why most NFL QB\'s aren\'t very fond on the \"rating\" stat. I see the QB rating as a team stat really, but I\'m sure you disagree. Uh, yeah I disagree. While I have never suggested to you that the o-line and WRs do not affect AB, you have refused to suggest that his often poor and inconsistent play affects them. Bottom line - no single position affects the offense as a whole more than the QB. You say that the QB rating is meaningless - why then do all the great have such good QB ratings? Even the ones who played on bad teams? Mind you, there are exceptions to every rule, but for the most part, QB rating is a good measure of how well a QB played. For example - the five best QB ratings this year were Peyton Manning Daunte Culpepper Drew Brees Donovan McNabb Ben Roethlisberger Can you honestly say that these guys aren\'t the 5 QBs who played the best ball last season? Really? Maybe one is sixth or seventh, but the point is, they played well. Did their teams affect them? of course! But were the Vikings 15 spots better as a team than the Saints? C\'mon. QB rating matters - it shows a QB\'s efficiency. You want to blame AB\'s low efficiency on the rest of the team. I want to blame it on him. Do you think AB\'s numbers would have been better or worse if he played in ATL, CAR, or TB?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

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04-09-2005, 10:23 AM	#36
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Something Positive about Brooks. I must be insane. I guess I\'m just dumb, but I can\'t understand how a WR corp can be considered \"explosive\", \"the best in Saints history,\" and be \"the only WR tandem\" with 1,000 yards without giving the QB credit for those accomplishments as well. Can a below average QB really make the WRs look better than himself? So players can\'t succeed and show their value despite a bad team? Tell that to LaDanian Tomlinson. If Peyton Manning got hurt this year, would it be hard for you to tell that the Colts WRs are explosive?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

04-09-2005, 10:24 AM	#37
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Something Positive about Brooks. I must be insane. All I know about Everett is that he was Ditka\'s first and possibly worst roster mistake. That year we went and 6-10 with HEATH SHULER, possibly the worst starting QB ever for the saints. Ah, the good ole days when we only dreamed about being 8-8.

04-09-2005, 10:33 AM	#38
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Something Positive about Brooks. I must be insane. Bottom line - no single position affects the offense as a whole more than the QB WhoDat -- Man, I just don\'t get the statements you make!! I agree, no \"single\" position affects the offense as much as the QB. But get this, WhoDat. No \"single\" position on the offense is affected more by other players than the QB! Do you understand that?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-09-2005, 10:38 AM	#39
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Something Positive about Brooks. I must be insane. Uh, yeah I disagree Why am I not surprised. you have refused to suggest that his often poor and inconsistent play affects them. This couldn\'t be more inaccurate. I do not refuse. What I do is point out, for example, that a pass doesn\'t have to be perfectly thrown to make it catchable. You, however, do seem to suggested that Brooks is the primary reason our team hasn\'t performed up to expectations. You say that the QB rating is meaningless Nope. This isn\'t true. What I DO say is the QB rating is the result of things often out of the control of the QB. An example of this would be a catchable pass dropped by a WR. Does Brooks throw some bad passes. Of course. Does he throw passes that should be caught but are dropped? Well, I think he does. Once again I\'m sure you\'d disagree. You want to blame AB\'s low efficiency on the rest of the team. I want to blame it on him. The big difference between you and me, Whodat, is that you want to blame it ALL on him and I think the blame should get passed around to ALL those responsible.
	C'mon Man...